Let me start off by saying this isn't my idea--the basis of this was brought up on the forums in a "how to make a decent MT" thread. I'm just trying to get one built out to see how it looks.
the idea is that the character doesn't quite get to be both arcane and divine caster, but plays a divine caster that can cherry-pick tons of arcane spells.
.
The current build is looking like:
Elf Ancient Lorekeeper Oracle (haunted curse, lore mystery) 20
STATS
dont particularly matter, other than a high CHA for casting and AC/reflex with sidestep secret, and knowledge skills with lore keeper revelation
SKILLS
get what you want and pump dat UMD, because you're gonna want it.
FEATS/REVELATIONS
1(Rev) sidestep secret
3 eldritch heritage (arcane: arcane bond)
3(Rev) lore keeper
5 scribe scroll
7
7(Rev) mental acuity
9
11 improved eldritch heritage (arcane: new arcana)
11(Rev) spontaneous symbology (or arcane archivist)
13
15
15(Rev) arcane archivist (or spontaneous symbology)
17 greater eldritch heritage (arcane: school power)
19
19(Rev) automatic writing
20 final revelation
SPELLS (normal oracle divine spells known)
1(Curse) mage hand, ghost sound
2 1 spell (cantrip, counts as 1st-level slot)
4 1 spell (1st-level or less, counts as 2nd-level slot)
5(Curse) levitate, minor image
6 1 spell (2nd-level or less, counts as 3rd-level slot)
8 1 spell (3rd-level or less, counts as 4th-level slot)
10 1 spell (4th-level or less, counts as 5th-level slot)
10(Curse) telekinesis
11(EH) 1 spell (5th-level or less*)
11(Rev)** symbol of:
mirroring (2nd),
revelation, slowing (4th)
scrying, sleep, striking, pain (5)
sealing, persuasion, fear, (6)
stunning, weakness (7)
insanity, death (8)
vulnerability, strife (9)
12 1 spell (5th-level or less, counts as 6th-level slot)
14 1 spell (6th-level or less, counts as 7th-level slot)
15(Curse) reverse gravity
15(EH) 1 spell (7th-level or less*)
16 1 spell (7th-level or less, counts as 8th-level slot)
18 1 spell (8th-level or less, counts as 9th-level slot)
19(EH) 1 spell (9th-level or less*)
20(FRev) wish
arcane bond: +1 free from spells known (1/day, no metamagic)
arcane archivist: +1 free from spells known (1/day, spell costs 1 level higher, must come from spellbook you own, spell in book is erased after casting)
.
COMMENTS
feat/revelation comments:
craft wonderous item and craft magic arms/armor is a good idea since youre going to be carting around scrolls for everything.
the fortune teller general feat seems like a neat fluffy choice as well.
you could get arcane archivist at 13th instead of 15th if you took the extra revelation feat if youre in a big hurry to get it.
spell comments:
** - for the spontaneous symbology revelation, ask your DM if you could get additional spells like arcane mark, emblazon crest, erase, explosive runes, magic circle against good/evil/law/chaos, sepia snake sigil, secret page, sending, undeath ward, circle of clarity, or other suitably fitting "symbol"-type spells.
this does make the revelation quite a bit more powerful, so don't feel to surprised if they turn you down, but if your GM's okay with it then do it.
general comments:[spoler]Wands and scrolls are your best friends.
by extension, things like the handy haversack (duh), pathfinder's pouch (put spellbook in waterproof bag, put inside of this and you have a very simple, relatively cheap protection set for your book--also, if it IS damaged, then no huge loss because you're not a wizard), and efficient quiver (due to size equivalency, one can hold 60 wands, 18 scroll cases, and 6 staves. also remember that each scroll case can hold up to 4 scrolls) are also your best friends.[/spoiler]
.
--------------------------------------
any advice on feats/other ways to get additional spells or comments would be appreciated--especially for useful spells someone with this build could pick for their list of spells known (permanency is pretty much a must with all these symbol spells)
now with formatting that isnt a huge wall of text!
anybody?
also, pardon the botched spoiler there, i cant edit it anymore (stupid timer thing).
i'll give this one last bump before i let it sink (then again its rather melodramatic to do so after only 5 and a half hours, but whatever).
Well it seems fairly solid, I certainly can't think of any build advice to recommend. Though, I do think that the Razmiran Priest Sorcerer archetype also makes a good fake MT because it can use spell slots to power divine scrolls.
I don't know how viable it would be but if you took Shades and Shadow Conjuration/Evocation you could greatly enhance the versatility of your spell list.
the shades/shadow conjuration/evocation are great suggestions right there.
any spells that let you emulate other spells are really useful for as starved a build as this.
also, if you (or anyone else interested) wants to post any builds with a similar feel (like the razmiran priest AT example you listed), then we could make a big faker character thread out of this one.
for the build in the OP, im considering some spell increasing (such as spell focus, penetration, etc.) and metamagic feats to fill in the remaining spots. not sure which though.
Q_Q My browser ate my post. I am so unbelievably sad. I was working on it for ages.
I'm kind of down about my post being eaten but the condensed version is :
Razmiran Priest (Sorcerer) 9/Umbral Court Agent 1/Veiled Illusionist 10
Or
Razmiran Priest 9/Pathfinder Savant 7/Veiled Illusionist 3
Or just Sorcerer 20 for the 20% more real shadow spells.
Potential Feats:
False Focus - from the Archetype, our fake divine focus is shiney and expensive and means we don't need material components. Apart from being entirely thematically appropriate it's just plain awesome.
False Casting - Add some hand gestures and pretend we're casting our scrolls for real real, not for play play.
Magical Aptitude - Requirement for False Casting as well as Pathfinder Savant
Scribe Scroll - You need this. Scroll making is amazing when you don't have to spend the scroll and you can substitute your CL and add your stat to the DC of the scroll. We'll be using these to cast any spell we want because we'll have every spell in our Handy Haversack.
Quicken Spell - Always good on a Sorcerer
Persistent Spell - Raise DCs, Especially for Shadow Conjuration or Evocation
Piercing Spell - Use this instead of Persistent Spell if you're facing lots of SR rather than high will save
Spell Focus Illusion - Raise DCs again, also a pre-req.
Varisian Tattoo: Illusion - Raises CL and therefore helps beat SR. Also gives us magical tattoos which are pretty sweet.
Skill Focus (Bluff) - Boost our bluff, use in place of Deceitful, especially if starting as a half-elf
Deceitful - Stack our bluff so high no-one can use Sense Motive (aka Fundar, with the ability to detect any amount of shenanigans in an encounter, we don't we want them using it!)
Greater Spell Focus (Illusion) - Boosting DCs is never bad, might be a bit boring though.
If you have room the typical Spell Focus (Knowledge [something]) - > EH (Arcane) adds more utility too but it's not as versatile because it's on a sorcerer chassis already so we don't get spells from another list that way.
Spells:
Not really that important but get all the Shadow (Evocation) and (Conjuration) spells and Shades.
pretty solid. is there a guide already out for other spells-that-can-be-other-spells (i know theres a very extensive thread/doc about shadow conjuration and evocation) or am i just gonna have to fish for suggestions beyond the shadow stuff?
i know pyrotechnics and do lots of things.
I also had some suggestions for your Oracle...
Spell Focus (<School>) -> Varisian Tattoo =+1 CL = +1 to beating SR
Elven Magic Trait -> = +2 Spell Pen.
Quicken Spell is always Useful
Prayer Beads with a Karma Bead will get you +4 CL for 10mins/day which is a +4 bonus to beating SR.
An Orange Ioun Stone will get you another +1 CL.
I had more feats in mind before but I can't remember now, they were in my previous post that got eaten. :x
I can't think of anything off the top of my head that has that kind of flexibility apart from (lesser) Wish and Miracle...
It does not fit exactly with being a fake MT as it is only the blasty part of arcane but I have been toying with a Flame Oracle with he glorious heat feat for free mini-heals.
Take Blackened curse to fill in the missing key fire spells. Elemental Spell is a must. Magical linage trait with a spell you plan to use a lot (likely fireball.) so you can change its element for free.
Of course could go elf with Ancient Lorekeeper to fill in more arcane spells. Or half-elf for paragon surge with seeker of your group could use trapfinding and well the constraining boost and spell pen is nice.
Again not exactly what you had in mind and not fully fleshed out yet but this thread made me think of that build (that I should really pull out and play at some point.)
K I would not let the healing side fall in this build I would get Familiar with your arcane bond. Then do this...
Adept Channel
Source Orcs of Golarion pg. 27
Some orc adepts enjoy a greater connection to their gods, and can channel their faith through their unholy symbols. You gain the ability to channel energy as a cleric.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast divine spells, summon familiar class ability, caster level 4th, Cha 13.
Benefit: You gain the channel energy class feature, as a cleric, usable 2 times per day. This ability otherwise functions like the cleric’s channel energy ability, except that your effective cleric level is equal to your divine spellcasting class level –3. Unlike a cleric, however, the number of times per day you may channel energy is not affected by your Charisma modifier.
Then take Inproved Familiar so it could be a wand jockey for you.
@stome - that seems like an interesting idea, nice.
@tom - now THAT is cool. i had no idea that was even a thing you could do.
on top of being a portable wand turret, some improved familiars get some neat spells/abilities of their own. that's definitely gonna get worked in somewhere.
gonna bump this from the second page
Whats a fake MT?
basically the goal here is to create a build that gets a good deal of arcane and divine spellcasting, as an alternative to going down the long and masochistic path of the mystic theurge prestige class.
currently there's the (WIP) build in the first post--a lore oracle who gets to cherrypick lots of sorc/wizard spells, I've seen the healing patron hedge witch build idea posted elsewhere, then there's ioran's razmiran priest idea, and stome's flame oracle idea.
Well, Magaambyan Arcanist is the new and improved Mystic Theurge.I think that prestige class is hard to beat with other concepts.
going from the build in the OP, the spell choices are looking like the following, unless anyone has any better ideas:
2 prestidigitation (counts as 1st-level slot)
4 silent image (counts as 2nd-level slot)
5(Curse) levitate, minor image
6 glitterdust (counts as 3rd-level slot)
8 summon monster III (counts as 4th-level slot)
10 shadow conjuration (counts as 5th-level slot)
10(Curse) telekinesis
11(EH) shadow evocation (5th-level or less)
12 wall of stone (counts as 6th-level slot)
14 summon monster VI (counts as 7th-level slot)
15(Curse) reverse gravity
15(EH) greater shadow conjuration (7th-level or less)
16 summon monster 7 (counts as 8th-level slot)
18 greater shadow evocation (counts as 9th-level slot)
19(EH) shades (9th-level or less)
20(FRev) wish (special, spell-like)
the spontaneous runology revelation gives you:
symbol of:
mirroring (2nd)
revelation, slowing (4th)
scrying, sleep, striking, pain (5th)
sealing, persuasion, fear, (6th)
stunning, weakness (7th)
insanity, death (8th)
vulnerability, strife (9th)
as well as the free casts from your bound item (if you choose one) and arcane archivist revelation.
again, if anyone knows any great multipurpose spells then suggest them.
a few i know are aqueous orb and pyrotechnics.
Why are all all summon spell and wall stone 1 level higher?
its specified by the ancient lorekeeper AT:
Elven Arcana (Ex)
At 2nd level, an ancient lorekeeper's mastery of elven legends and philosophy has allowed her to master one spell used by elven wizards. She selects one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest-level oracle spell she can cast. The ancient lorekeeper gains this as a bonus spell known. The spell is treated as one level higher than its true level for all purposes. The ancient lorekeeper may choose an additional spell at 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 18th levels.
This ability replaces the bonus spells she would normally gain at these levels from her chosen mystery.
Italicized for emphasis, I'm cool with it though.
the ones on the list marked (EH) are given by the greater eldritch heritage power (new arcana), and don't have that limitation. the ones marked (curse) are freebies for your haunted curse leveling up.
going from the build in the OP, the spell choices are looking like the following, unless anyone has any better ideas:** spoiler omitted **
again, if anyone knows any great multipurpose spells then suggest them.
a few i know are aqueous orb and pyrotechnics.
But that makes no sense.
Why take Summon Monster and Wall of Stone???
Those Spells are already on your spell list,and they are lower level.
going from the build in the OP, the spell choices are looking like the following, unless anyone has any better ideas:** spoiler omitted **
again, if anyone knows any great multipurpose spells then suggest them.
a few i know are aqueous orb and pyrotechnics.But that makes no sense.
Why take Summon Monster and Wall of Stone???
Those Spells are already on your spell list,and they are lower level.
because i wasnt paying attention to the oracle spell list at all and just looking at the sorc/wizard one. i should really stop doing that.
so, the summon monster and wall of stone spells are off the arcane choices list, which leaves us with:
one 3rd-level spell (counts as 4th)
one 5th-level spell (counts as 6th) - permanency might be a good idea in general and with spontaneous symbology.
one 6th-level spell (counts as 7th)
one 7th-level spell (counts as 8th)
any suggestions?
A) Is this with party?
B) If so what is the make up of it?
C) Or is this a general list?
this is just a standalone build. trying to cover as much as possible (without getting too redundant) with the few spells available.
i count the shadow evo/conj/shades group out of the redundant part due to their sheer flexibility.
3rd lvl
Fly- always useful
Sleet Storm-If you like Timestop as a 9th level spell then you gotta love Sleet Storm at 3rd
Stinking Cloud-Immensely strong debuff, grab heighten spell with it
Arcane Sight- defeats all mundane and magical Stealth
Heroism-One awesome all day Buff
usually I would also recommend Wall of Ice and Haste but Oracles get Blessing of Fervour and Holy Ice so you don't need them.
5th lvl
Teleport
Wall of Force
Overland Flight
Icy Prison
6th lvl
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Contingency
Chain Lightning
Flesh to Stone
7th lvl
Limited Wish-not even a decision
Arcane Sight Only make list if you get permanency other wise wait till you get true sight next level
Displacement
Haste may be a wast with Blessing of fover but it a great spell
Spiked Pit Slow Debuff
Vampiric Touch action econmany Hurt the bad guy and heal your self
Acid Pit Board control
Calcific Touch Debuff +Damage
Dimension Door Cause you are tring to fill Wizard role
Enervation Great Debuff
Fear Debuff / board Controll
Invisibility, Greater
Resilient Sphere
Stoneskin Cost GP
Feeblemind
Hungry Pit
Overland Flight
Permanency Cost GP
Teleport Cause you are tring to fill Wizard role
Contingency
Disintegrate Cause you are tring to fill Wizard role Clasic spell with +1 DC for free in this build since it will be level 7 spell
Globe of Invulnerability
Delayed Blast Fireball Cause you are tring to fill Wizard role
Ice Body
Teleport, Greater Cause you are tring to fill Wizard role
"limted wish" is a hard sell to me? Why you get Mirical as 9th level spell...I mean it will be 8th level spell for you...