So I've been preparing a published campaign (specifically, Kingmaker), and have run into a problem. See, Kingmaker involves dealing with quite a few fey creatures, which means that charm / suggestion / dominate magic is, as published, set to be a relatively common weapon against the PC's.
Normally, I NEVER do anything mind-affecting to my PC's, because wresting away PC control seems risky, at best. In fact, I'd assumed that the general consensus among DM's was to avoid brainwashing PC's completely, which is why I was so surprised to see specifically called for in a professorially published AP.
I've been trying to brainstorm some graceful ways to do this: one potential solution would be to offer the affected PC an appropriate amount of EXP or Hero Points to follow the monster's orders, but that brings its own set of complications.
Or maybe I'm just worrying too much and taking PC control isn't such a bad thing after all. Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?
When I've seen domination run (not in PF but 4E) on a party member, it was basically the DM told the player more or less what he should be doing, but still had the player handle the character on his own.
It was relatively simple I suppose, as the dominated PC (along with enemies) and the party got into combat, so it basically like running combat but the PC in question had differing allies/enemies. Prior to that, there was roleplay though, during which he acted... appropriately (although the character had a weird personality in the first place, so he acted surprisingly similar to how he normally did anyway, just with different motives).
That's my best experience with a dominated PC.
I think the best way to deal with it is to make sure the PCs know that they will encounter it. Give them hints in game and give them the means to prepare for it.
This can ad a different element to the encounter, avoiding the domination. If they can stop it from happening they will already feel they've accomplished something. If one of them gets dominated it'll be easier for them to accept and deal with since they knew about it.
Adding little objectives within encounter does wonders for the PCs.
Hope this helps!
I think the best way to deal with it is to make sure the PCs know that they will encounter it. Give them hints in game and give them the means to prepare for it.
This can ad a different element to the encounter, avoiding the domination. If they can stop it from happening they will already feel they've accomplished something. If one of them gets dominated it'll be easier for them to accept and deal with since they knew about it.
Adding little objectives within encounter does wonders for the PCs.
Hope this helps!
Ugh! That's really good advice, and its really simple, and I'm kind of kicking myself for not thinking of it right off.
So for a named monster, I could maybe plant a journal (or something) about how a previous party fought and got a member dominated, and they used x gizmo / technique to overcome it?
And how does one break a domination in their ally anyway?
And then, for random, nonspecific fey encounters, I could just have an NPC duck in ahead of time and be like "look out for fey mind-control beams kthx". Right?
There is one problem, though: at one point, an NPC tries to mind-control the PCs into doing a quest that they don't necessarily want to. How should I do this if they don't want to do the quest? Should I try to convince them to do it ooc?
Thanks for all the input by the way, this is great!
Nah, wrest control of the character for an encounter. Let the player roll and act, of course, but make sure they understand their character's mindset has changed. They move to protect their "new friend" in whatever capacity is called for- they don't become mindless minions of the caster, but they act in accordance to the flavor of the spell(s) the OP listed. It's a great opportunity for fun all around.
And a well-placed Dispel Magic can work wonders.
Have fun with it! Scare them with the flavor of the campaign. None of these are permanent effects, and if you want to see a group band together, Dominate the tank and let the casters figure that one out- it'll be FUN!
We did it in Serpent's Skull and everyone had a good time.
|
I have always run Domination spells as though the person dominated was a puppet on strings (Which is somewhat implied in the very name).
A good example would be if you have ever played Mass Effect 2, whenever Harbinger "Assumes Direct Control" and takes over a minion. That is how I view dominate. You are the mindslave of the caster.
I have no qualms about dominating PCs, although I let them "Control" the character for me so I don't get bogged down. But I make all major decisions about where to move, who to attack, and spells to cast.
Nah, wrest control of the character for an encounter. Let the player roll and act, of course, but make sure they understand their character's mindset has changed. They move to protect their "new friend" in whatever capacity is called for- they don't become mindless minions of the caster, but they act in accordance to the flavor of the spell(s) the OP listed. It's a great opportunity for fun all around.
And a well-placed Dispel Magic can work wonders.
Have fun with it! Scare them with the flavor of the campaign. None of these are permanent effects, and if you want to see a group band together, Dominate the tank and let the casters figure that one out- it'll be FUN!
We did it in Serpent's Skull and everyone had a good time.
Ok, that's a relief; it's good to know that other DM's are taking over their players (short-term) and it works out ok.
But my question still stands long-term - what if the PCs get charmed into doing a quest they don't want to pursue? That doesn't sound like fun for the PC's, so I'd need to:
a) convince them to do it ooc,
b) have the charm effect automatically fail, or
c) I don't know, any ideas?
Quest/geas is the usual spell for sending PCs on an adventure, if you must. Dominate is far too blunt an instrument. And geas/quest leaves PCs their free will, it just punishes them if they turn away or drag their feet too long.
I am generally fairly lenient with this spell as long as the PC is being reasonable in heading toward the goal. Also, given the casting time, one usually only sees it used on people who willingly accept it -- say, if someone wants the,mto undertake a quest in return for having a comrade returned from the dead.
Oh, there we go. I'll just swap out Suggestion with Lesser Geas. Thanks, guys! This is my first posting on this forum, and you guys have just been great.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Darth Loof,
I'd say play it and see what happens. If I am recalling the part you mean correctly, when I GMed Kingmaker, the PCs were totally eager to do the side quest, no compulsion necessary. So, you might not have to worry about it at all.
If the PCs aren't interested and the compulsion fails, again, no need to worry.
If the PCs aren't interested but the compulsion succeeds, well, if your group is like mine, that will just make for a really interesting story development. You could either make the side quest smaller/quicker than written, or you could adapt it to be more interesting for your PCs.
Another possibility is, since you will hopefully know your players and their PCs and their goals and motivations, you could slant the situation as it's initially presented to your PCs to make them more interested in agreeing to accomplish it ... whether that's monetary reward for the mercenary types, or stopping the evil-doers for the do-gooder types, or winning the gratitude of the lovely damsel in distress for the ladies-man types... or whatever the case may be.
Good luck & have fun with it! :)