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OK, it's been a while since Paizo released the changes for the monk in repsonse to a lot of feedback that the core monk (and most archetypes) is weak and underpowered compared to other classes. For those that missed them they are:
* Flurry of Blows: We have decided to reverse a previous ruling (that came from this very blog) that stated you needed to use two weapons when using flurry of blows (or a combination of weapon attacks and unarmed strikes). You can now make all of your attacks with just one weapon, or substitute any number of these attacks with an unarmed strike. Of course, if you have a pair of weapons and want to keep using both of them, that still works as well.
* Ki Pool: Monks typically have problems bypassing DR with their unarmed strikes, forcing them to rely on weapons to deal with many forms of DR. We have decided to add a new ability to the Ki Pool monk class feature. At 7th level, a monk's unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, so long as he has at least 1 point remaining in his ki pool.
* Amulet of Mighty Fists: On Friday, we posted up a FAQ that stated that the enhancement bonus from an amulet of mighty fists does allow natural attacks and unarmed strikes to bypass damage reduction if the enhancement bonus is at least +3 (as with other weapons, see page 562 of the Core Rulebook). In addition, we have decided to adjust the price of the amulet of mighty fists. The new prices are as follows: 4,000 gp (+1), 16,000 gp (+2), 36,000 gp (+3), 64,000 gp (+4), 100,000 gp (+5). Accordingly, the costs to create these amulets are also reduced to the following: 2,000 gp (+1), 8,000 gp (+2), 18,000 gp (+3), 32,000 gp (+4), 50,000 gp (+5). This makes this item priced a bit more competitively for monks and creatures that rely on natural attacks. I should note that this change will be reflected in future printings of the Core Rulebook, Ultimate Equipment, and the NPC Codex.
Now, how have people found these changes? Have they fixed monk problems, or are they still extant?
For myself...no. They've helped, but not significantly.
Flurry of Blows: This was how most people already played it. No change there, though that was a welcome clear ruling.
Ki Strike: Bypassing cold iron or silver at 7th level can be handy but mainly for fighting later creatures with DRs that include it - the ones that had that DR exclusively you tangled with five levels ago when everyone else had cold iron or silver weapons.
AoMF: Still capped at +5, so any properties exclude you from getting past any DR at later levels. The cost reduction is nice, but still keeps you behind slightly as the TWFers will stagger their enhancements. It also blocks up that amulet slot.
For me, the problems are still multiple:
* MADness: The monk still needs too many good scores. Abilities that all depend on good Wisdom, Dexterity, and Strength to function properly don't function at all when you have to skimp one or more of these scores. You will still always be behind at something. There are a lot of options for fixing this, as the paladin was fixed to depend on only two scores, not three or four.
* Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes: this is the item that really needed fixing, it really rubs the monk's nose in it when used by another class that does not suffer the drawbacks. There were better ways of making it less effective than the AoMF than limiting the number of hits you could apply it too.
* Monk abilities not fit for purpose: I could list them individually, but really it would take too long. Suffice to say that wholeness of body is a great example of a never-used ability, and diamond soul of an ability that nerfs you more than it helps you. Ki as a resource is too sparse on the ground.
So, what do other players think? Has the monk been fixed?
* Monk abilities not fit for purpose: I could list them individually, but really it would take too long. Suffice to say that wholeness of body is a great example of a never-used ability, and diamond soul of an ability that nerfs you more than it helps you. Ki as a resource is too sparse on the ground.
How does diamond soul nerf you? You can still be healed by a friendly caster. You can allow spells past your spell resistance, just like a saving throw last I checked.
I personally do think the changes have made a difference.
First, AoMF's cost reduction is a huge boon to the class. At +5, that's still a whole 50 you had that you didn't have before. Enough for a +5 Ring of Protection or half a dozen other useful items. You might mention the cap preventing more abilities, but honestly I don't have a problem with the it considering Natural Attackers(like an Eidolon) still can make use of this item. To that end, I can live with it being capped as long as the price's been reduced.
The cold iron & silver, perhaps does come a little late, but I'd still rather have that then not. Unless I'm mistaken, you'd need a +3 AoMF to bypass those types, a 36k item even at the reduced price. At that level, whole WBL is 23.5k. This ability still brings the Monk's ability to penatrate DR signifigantly earlier than he'd have to otherwise. I've seen this in action, and trust me monks are pleased as punch to get it.
The Flurry of Blows thing is sorta of a non-issue since most housruled the FAQ away, but like you say it's a really nice thing to have.
So all things considered, I'd say it's a really nice patch. Does it fit ALL the vanilla monk's problems? No. I agree the class still is MAD, the Body Wraps suck, the classes defensive abilities are overkill with it's saves and Ki on the whole is too sparse for it to be reliable class feature(though, I'd use Wholeness of Body all the time out of combat now the Ki Mastery Ring's come out in UE). If DOES however address a majority of the problwms with the monk's ability to deal damage and get past DR; and frankly that's what most of us were looking for.
How does diamond soul nerf you? You can still be healed by a friendly caster. You can allow spells past your spell resistance, just like a saving throw last I checked.
That's been incorrect since 3.5, you have to waste a standard to lower it for a round. I'll admit it's a pretty mediocre feature considering, but still the SR is still nice if you can live with it.
I agree, Dabbler. MAD was not addressed at all, and there has been no errata on the body wraps (which are now even more hideously overpriced). And you well know my thoughts on abilities that cannot realitically be used. :)
MA
Thanks for bringing these changes to my attention, I only knew about MoB.
I think these changes help but really the monk needs reworking at some point. Still think it should be a full BAB class (which would fix a lot of feat prerequisite problems) and their bonus feats need a wider variety of options. And the problems Dabbler mentioned.
is there a Link to these changes?
I just had a blasphemous thought, what if you make the ki pool equal to monk level plus wisdom, and then base the ac bonus class feature on constitution? I would also exchange the improving damage die for unarmed strike past first with the equivalent of weapon training that applies to all unarmed strikes AND monk weapons.
here is what i was talking about with flurry of blows and why i think you could use it for feat prerequisites. Here is the link.
the problem is it says it uses it for effects, not qualifying.(sad face)
here is what i was talking about with flurry of blows and why i think you could use it for feat prerequisites. Here is the link.
I'm afraid all that is saying is that a monk who already has power attack would benefit as if he had a BAB = his level when using PA during a FoB. Monks still can't qualify for PA or Weapon Focus at first level.
here is what i was talking about with flurry of blows and why i think you could use it for feat prerequisites. Here is the link.I'm afraid all that is saying is that a monk who already has power attack would benefit as if he had a BAB = his level when using PA during a FoB. Monks still can't qualify for PA or Weapon Focus at first level.
lol, did I ninja a ninja?
lol, did I ninja a ninja?here is what i was talking about with flurry of blows and why i think you could use it for feat prerequisites. Here is the link.I'm afraid all that is saying is that a monk who already has power attack would benefit as if he had a BAB = his level when using PA during a FoB. Monks still can't qualify for PA or Weapon Focus at first level.
It might appear that way, but the ways of the Ninja are shrouded in mystery.
+5 toaster can you look at my new Dimensional Monk. It is an archetype for monk that replaces mostly everything from monk, except a few things. Here is the Link Click me
dimensional savant could use some language clean up. particularly the use of the word "you" makes me confused. i get that it allows you to flank with yourself, but i am not sure of the limitations on how it affects other party members, range of effect, etc.
+5 toaster can you look at my new Dimensional Monk. It is an archetype for monk that replaces mostly everything from monk, except a few things. Here is the Link Click medimensional savant could use some language clean up. particularly the use of the word "you" makes me confused. i get that it allows you to flank with yourself, but i am not sure of the limitations on how it affects other party members, range of effect, etc.Dimensional Savant is directly from the feat in the Ultimate Combat book. Basically you could if you teleport to a square across from an ally you flank with them and even if you teleport from the square you still flank with them till the beginning of your next turn. Also if you teleport from a square to a square directly across from the square your last attack came from you flank with your self.
The range of effect is your Dimensional Dervish feat.
fair enough, though changing the word "you" to "the monk" will neat it up a bit.
by the way ghost attack should probably be replaced with granting the ghost touch property to really be worth an 18th level ability. heck I would even consider throwing brilliant weapon property as well, but thats debatable.
I will make those changes, over all though what do you think of the Archetype.+5 toaster can you look at my new Dimensional Monk. It is an archetype for monk that replaces mostly everything from monk, except a few things. Here is the Link Click medimensional savant could use some language clean up. particularly the use of the word "you" makes me confused. i get that it allows you to flank with yourself, but i am not sure of the limitations on how it affects other party members, range of effect, etc.Dimensional Savant is directly from the feat in the Ultimate Combat book. Basically you could if you teleport to a square across from an ally you flank with them and even if you teleport from the square you still flank with them till the beginning of your next turn. Also if you teleport from a square to a square directly across from the square your last attack came from you flank with your self.
The range of effect is your Dimensional Dervish feat.
fair enough, though changing the word "you" to "the monk" will neat it up a bit.
by the way ghost attack should probably be replaced with granting the ghost touch property to really be worth an 18th level ability. heck I would even consider throwing brilliant weapon property as well, but thats debatable.
I like it considerably, it fills a nice niche that is relatively untouched. Then again I may be biased because my favorite character I ever built was a 3.5 psychic warrior/elocater.
The weapon enhancement thing may be a step too far both in terms of mechanics and fluff. though the other stuff should be fine.
edit:you should open comments on the doc to ease the communication
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Me and my DM have come up with a monk archetype i would like to post for people to see. I will pit it up as a Google doc but if you want a copy of the file just private message me with your email address and ill send it. It is in Microsoft word format so you will need to be able to open the file. Dimensional Monk.
I would like some feedback if you could.
You should really start your own thread and avoid derailing this one.
As for the changes, it seems the developers are torn between wanting monks to be effective but not wanting unarmed strikes to be effective. I've seen it said by developers that punches aren't as good as swords so anyone who goes that route needs to suck it up and deal. I think that idea is a horrible one personally.
Monks need weapon training instead of increased damage dice. If we look at the philosophy behind the martial classes we see: "a fighter deals the most damage, unless the target is evil, then the paladin wins, unless the target is a favored enemy, then the ranger wins, unless the barbarian is raging, then he wins." The monk lacks a similar ability. The closest thing is FoB. But can we say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk is flurrying"? Does it hold a candle to smiting or raging? I don't think so due to the flaws of unarmed strikes. However to say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk uses unarmed strikes" doesn't work either, because that's all the time. Basically, unarmed strikes need to be brought to a level where they don't outperform the fighter all the time, but to where, when flurrying, they are a contender.
The solution seems to be right in front of us, but was missed somewhere. Perhaps the biggest change from 3.5 to PF was OPTIONS. Rage Powers, Combat Styles, School abilities, Bloodlines, Rogue Talents (perhaps the template for all of these), Domain Abilities, Weapon Training (fighters got a little jipped here too), Cavalier Orders, Patrons, Revelations, Evolutions, and I'm probably missing some. Where are the monks options? They gave us the qinggong archetype, but it didn't really bring anything to the table for the monk, it just sort of threw other things at it.
Were I designing the monk, I'd take the qinggong system and, first of all, rework it to more closely resemble rage power or rogue talent progression (or bloodlines, just something set), and write real useful monk abilities to fill in the spots instead of just copying feats and spells. Write abilities that work with monk weapons, that affect flurrying, unarmed strikes (duh), maneuvers, and you can still include the ability to copy certain spells and feats. And don't charge ki points unless it needs to, and give monks more of them. Best of all, this allows players to organically create either a martial artist, or mystic in the base same class instead of picking between subpar archetypes that fall flat mechanically and flavorfully. Much in the way the rogue gets to choose between sneak attack damage dealer or skill monkey sneaker or a mix all without archetypes. And all their archetypes are built around maintaining that ability while augmenting aspects of it.
Me and my DM have come up with a monk archetype i would like to post for people to see. I will pit it up as a Google doc but if you want a copy of the file just private message me with your email address and ill send it. It is in Microsoft word format so you will need to be able to open the file. Dimensional Monk.
I would like some feedback if you could.
You should really start your own thread and avoid derailing this one.
As for the changes, it seems the developers are torn between wanting monks to be effective but not wanting unarmed strikes to be effective. I've seen it said by developers that punches aren't as good as swords so anyone who goes that route needs to suck it up and deal. I think that idea is a horrible one personally.
Monks need weapon training instead of increased damage dice. If we look at the philosophy behind the martial classes we see: "a fighter deals the most damage, unless the target is evil, then the paladin wins, unless the target is a favored enemy, then the ranger wins, unless the barbarian is raging, then he wins." The monk lacks a similar ability. The closest thing is FoB. But can we say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk is flurrying"? Does it hold a candle to smiting or raging? I don't think so due to the flaws of unarmed strikes. However to say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk uses unarmed strikes" doesn't work either, because that's all the time. Basically, unarmed strikes need to be brought to a level where they don't outperform the fighter all the time, but to where, when flurrying, they are a contender.
The solution seems to be right in front of us, but was missed somewhere. Perhaps the biggest change from 3.5 to PF was OPTIONS. Rage Powers, Combat Styles, School abilities, Bloodlines, Rogue Talents (perhaps the template for all of these), Domain Abilities, Weapon Training(fighters got a little jipped here too), Cavalier Orders, Patrons, Revelations, Evolutions, and I'm probably missing some. Where are the monks options? They gave us the qinggong archetype, but it didn't really bring anything to the table for the monk, it just sort of threw other things at it.
Were I designing the monk, I'd take the qinggong system and, first of all, rework it to more closely resemble rage power or rogue talent progression (or bloodlines, just something set), and write real useful monk abilities to fill in the spots instead of just copying feats and spells. Write abilities that work with monk weapons, that affect flurrying, unarmed strikes (duh), maneuvers, and you can still include the ability to copy certain spells and feats. And don't charge ki points unless it needs to, and give monks more of them. Best of all, this allows players to organically create either a martial artist, or mystic in the base same class instead of picking between subpar archetypes that fall flat mechanically and flavorfully. Much in the way the rogue gets to choose between sneak attack damage dealer or skill monkey sneaker or a mix all without archetypes. And all their archetypes are built around maintaining that ability while augmenting aspects of it.
Options? You want options? Then check out my Tattooed Monk. There is a link there to the google document, as well.
MA
...Me and my DM have come up with a monk archetype i would like to post for people to see. I will pit it up as a Google doc but if you want a copy of the file just private message me with your email address and ill send it. It is in Microsoft word format so you will need to be able to open the file. Dimensional Monk.
I would like some feedback if you could.
You should really start your own thread and avoid derailing this one.
As for the changes, it seems the developers are torn between wanting monks to be effective but not wanting unarmed strikes to be effective. I've seen it said by developers that punches aren't as good as swords so anyone who goes that route needs to suck it up and deal. I think that idea is a horrible one personally.
Monks need weapon training instead of increased damage dice. If we look at the philosophy behind the martial classes we see: "a fighter deals the most damage, unless the target is evil, then the paladin wins, unless the target is a favored enemy, then the ranger wins, unless the barbarian is raging, then he wins." The monk lacks a similar ability. The closest thing is FoB. But can we say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk is flurrying"? Does it hold a candle to smiting or raging? I don't think so due to the flaws of unarmed strikes. However to say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk uses unarmed strikes" doesn't work either, because that's all the time. Basically, unarmed strikes need to be brought to a level where they don't outperform the fighter all the time, but to where, when flurrying, they are a contender.
The solution seems to be right in front of us, but was missed somewhere. Perhaps the biggest change from 3.5 to PF was OPTIONS. Rage Powers, Combat Styles, School abilities, Bloodlines, Rogue Talents (perhaps the template for all of these), Domain Abilities,
hah planned on trying that in my upcoming zombie campaign.
...Me and my DM have come up with a monk archetype i would like to post for people to see. I will pit it up as a Google doc but if you want a copy of the file just private message me with your email address and ill send it. It is in Microsoft word format so you will need to be able to open the file. Dimensional Monk.
I would like some feedback if you could.
You should really start your own thread and avoid derailing this one.
As for the changes, it seems the developers are torn between wanting monks to be effective but not wanting unarmed strikes to be effective. I've seen it said by developers that punches aren't as good as swords so anyone who goes that route needs to suck it up and deal. I think that idea is a horrible one personally.
Monks need weapon training instead of increased damage dice. If we look at the philosophy behind the martial classes we see: "a fighter deals the most damage, unless the target is evil, then the paladin wins, unless the target is a favored enemy, then the ranger wins, unless the barbarian is raging, then he wins." The monk lacks a similar ability. The closest thing is FoB. But can we say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk is flurrying"? Does it hold a candle to smiting or raging? I don't think so due to the flaws of unarmed strikes. However to say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk uses unarmed strikes" doesn't work either, because that's all the time. Basically, unarmed strikes need to be brought to a level where they don't outperform the fighter all the time, but to where, when flurrying, they are a contender.
The solution seems to be right in front of us, but was missed somewhere. Perhaps the biggest change from 3.5 to PF was OPTIONS. Rage Powers, Combat Styles, School abilities, Bloodlines, Rogue Talents (perhaps the template for all of these), Domain Abilities,
It's still basically the qinggong. Ninja tricks and rage powers can be either mystic type abilities, but they can also be feats of skill and strength. The monk needs more of that, a sense of progress as an ass kicker, and not just a mystic who gets shut down in an AMF.
Best of all, this allows players to organically create either a martial artist, or mystic in the base same class
I just had a blasphemous thought, what if you make the ki pool equal to monk level plus wisdom, and then base the ac bonus class feature on constitution? I would also exchange the improving damage die for unarmed strike past first with the equivalent of weapon training that applies to all unarmed strikes AND monk weapons.
One of the monk's problems is MADness, and you want to ADD another ability to factor in to the three they already need? You are right, that is blasphemous.
As for the changes, it seems the developers are torn between wanting monks to be effective but not wanting unarmed strikes to be effective. I've seen it said by developers that punches aren't as good as swords so anyone who goes that route needs to suck it up and deal. I think that idea is a horrible one personally.
I'm with you, I could believe that argument if all unarmed options were horrible, but an unarmed fighter can out-hit and out-damage an unarmed monk. So it's not that the unarmed strike is bad, it's that the unarmed strike for monks is bad. Also, if unarmed strikes are meant to be bad, why are monks not furnished with better weapons instead?
Monks need weapon training instead of increased damage dice.
Have you been looking at my Mystic Monk? That's what I used primarily there. Base unarmed damage of 1d6, then weapon training or other options to increase from there.
If we look at the philosophy behind the martial classes we see: "a fighter deals the most damage, unless the target is evil, then the paladin wins, unless the target is a favored enemy, then the ranger wins, unless the barbarian is raging, then he wins." The monk lacks a similar ability. The closest thing is FoB. But can we say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk is flurrying"? Does it hold a candle to smiting or raging? I don't think so due to the flaws of unarmed strikes. However to say, "the fighter deals the most damage, unless the monk uses unarmed strikes" doesn't work either, because that's all the time. Basically, unarmed strikes need to be brought to a level where they don't outperform the fighter all the time, but to where, when flurrying, they are a contender.
I would suggest turning the monk's disadvantage on it's head and let the monk deal less damage but bypass DR earlier than other classes. It hit's for less damage, but is always guaranteed to damage.
The solution seems to be right in front of us, but was missed somewhere. Perhaps the biggest change from 3.5 to PF was OPTIONS. Rage Powers, Combat Styles, School abilities, Bloodlines, Rogue Talents (perhaps the template for all of these), Domain Abilities, Weapon Training...
I agree, but we want to rework the core monk as is. A complete redesign isn't on the cards, small tweaks are.
All I was looking for here is feedback on whether the changes make a difference. So far, a small one, which I agree with. But I don't think it tackles the monk's major problems. It's half a nod at bypassing DR, and half a nod at the AoMF problem, and that's pretty much it. It's appreciated, but IMHO it's not quite there yet.
Wholeness of Body is still on a par with drinking a potion, and doesn't really address the real matter of healing oneself being a lot more than hit-point damage. It is basically useful if you have ki to burn at the end of the day and want to save on wands and potions, and that's it.
Diamond Soul still nerfs the monk as much as the enemy caster (probably more so as enemy casters tend to be boss-fights, and levels above the party).
Slow Fall still falls short of featherfall.
The monk remains a combat class that struggles to fight effectively.
One of the monk's problems is MADness, and you want to ADD another ability to factor in to the three they already need? You are right, that is blasphemous.
wait what? monks already need good con (d8 hit die frontliner), so it already contributes to their MADness. what i proposed is blasphemous because you can essentially have a low wisdom monk with more survivability starting at slightly behind and going to well over the normal monks kipoints. which of course goes heavily against perceived theme. personally I gave monks the ability to use wisdom in place of con for all purposes and effects. that however would add to the monk word count, which is what I was trying to avoid. the only problem with my suggestion is stunning fist.
Another option is to embrace the MAD.
Monks already get wis and dex to AC. Maybe they should get con and wisd to HP and int and wis to ki and str and wis to stunning fist/elemental fist/punishing kick DC.
i like it
The PROBLEM with MAD is that the game rewards a maxed-out score. Fighters max out strength for massive attack and damage bonuses; Wizards max out intelligence to bump up the save DCs and get more spells, etc. When you max out scores you lose the facility to have other good scores. What is more, as you level up you only get to increase one ability score to the max.
Having bonuses from several different scores does work, kind of, but there are problems with it. For example, if you were to allow a monk to add wisdom to attack and damage rolls along with strength, it would allow a 14 strength 14 wisdom monk to match the attack bonus and damage output of a fighter with 18 strength. However, what if you use higher point buy and take 18 strength and 16 wisdom? What if you are rolling for your ability scores and get lucky? Then it becomes unbalancing again.
The poster-child in 3.5 for MAD was not the monk, it was the Paladin. In 3.5 the paladin needed:
Strength for melee attack and damage. He's a fighting class, after all.
Constitution for hit points. He's a fighting class, after all.
Wisdom for spells.
Charisma for class abilities.
When Paizo went over the paladin, they made serious changes. They made a four-score MAD class into a two-score MAD class.
Strength for melee attack and damage. He's a fighting class, after all.
Charisma for spells and abilities.
Lay-on-hands, available from 2nd level, on yourself as a swift action makes up for lack of constitution, as you can use it mid-combat and it heals an average 1.75 hp per level per use.
Spells now hinge on charisma, so wisdom is no longer necessary at all.
Now look at the monk, which is still a four-score MAD class:
Strength for melee attack and damage. He's a fighting class, after all.
Constitution for hit points. He's a fighting class with d8 hit dice, after all. Wholeness of body is unavailable until 5th level, and in any event is a poor 2nd place to Lay on hands and is unsuitable for using in combat, as it takes a standard action.
Dexterity for AC. The monk's bonus from wisdom does not fully compensate for lack of armour, and a lot of the monk's skills hinge on dex as well.
Wisdom for abilities and AC.
This is the monk's MAD problem. While gaining Con bonus to AC (as natural armour, say) sounds great, and makes up for the lack of an amulet of natural armour at later levels, I'm reluctant to suggest making the monk more MAD than it already is. We want to reduce pressure to spend on multiple ability scores, not increase it. My own ideas revolve around giving the monk better DR-bypass options (using ki) and granting a wisdom bonus to hit in place of strength. This allows the monk to shift emphasis from dealing damage to using their special abilities.
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i'm still fairly new to role playing games, but what if a monks unarmed strike used dex for damage instead of str. I know dex is already used for so much else, but would't that make it easier for a monk to deal damage while keeping ac high, not being as dependent on str?
this would allow a monk to put points in con and even int (for those 'greater' combat maneuver feats)
would this be unbalanced?
i'm still fairly new to role playing games, but what if a monks unarmed strike used dex for damage instead of str. I know dex is already used for so much else, but would't that make it easier for a monk to deal damage while keeping ac high, not being as dependent on str?
this would allow a monk to put points in con and even int (for those 'greater' combat maneuver feats)would this be unbalanced?
not even remotely, especially if you apply the armor restriction thing.
Armor restriction thing?
Armor restriction thing?
can't use such and such ability while wearing armor, or carrying a heavy load.
Low word count. The monks wisdom bonus is used as an armor bonus, to hit bonus, damage bonus, and is subtracted from a foes damage reduction.
If multi-classed can either fight as a monk or the other.
i'm still fairly new to role playing games, but what if a monks unarmed strike used dex for damage instead of str. I know dex is already used for so much else, but would't that make it easier for a monk to deal damage while keeping ac high, not being as dependent on str?
this would allow a monk to put points in con and even int (for those 'greater' combat maneuver feats)would this be unbalanced?
A common tactic used in existing builds is to max out Dexterity and not strength, and then get the agile property on the amulet of mighty fists as soon as you can. Problem is that this costs you a feat (you need Weapon Finesse to start with) and a property in the AoMF, which is expensive and has a +5 cap.
It's an option I looked at as well, but Wisdom makes more sense if you want to go that rout as it doesn't detract from those that want Strength-focused monks so much, and it allows you to actually have a stat you can throw just about everything at it. If you don't want the monk to be overpowered, you could just replace strength on to-hit rolls and pick up the guided quality - you get better Wisdom for the monk's abilities and you don't have to lose a feat, and you can always pick up the guided property on the AoMF anyway.
i'm still fairly new to role playing games, but what if a monks unarmed strike used dex for damage instead of str. I know dex is already used for so much else, but would't that make it easier for a monk to deal damage while keeping ac high, not being as dependent on str?
this would allow a monk to put points in con and even int (for those 'greater' combat maneuver feats)would this be unbalanced?
A common tactic used in existing builds is to max out Dexterity and not strength, and then get the agile property on the amulet of mighty fists as soon as you can. Problem is that this costs you a feat (you need Weapon Finesse to start with) and a property in the AoMF, which is expensive and has a +5 cap.
It's an option I looked at as well, but Wisdom makes more sense if you want to go that rout as it doesn't detract from those that want Strength-focused monks so much, and it allows you to actually have a stat you can throw just about everything at it. If you don't want the monk to be overpowered, you could just replace strength on to-hit rolls and pick up the guided quality - you get better Wisdom for the monk's abilities and you don't have to lose a feat, and you can always pick up the guided property on the AoMF anyway.
wasn't guided 3.5? i seem to remember that it came from dragon magazine.
Wow thanks for the advice he wis is almost as good as dex for the monk and the freeing up of the feat is huge. I love the feel of the monk so far I'm only lvl 3 so i don't have as much experience as many people do, it does seem harder to plan than most other classes i've done in the past, but it also seems the good cmb, style feats, and archetypes allow for a personalized monk. I may not be able to deal as much damage but i can set up for easier attacks and aoo for the fighter when i trip and for a sneak att when I stunning fist. My main concern was/ is the need for str/con/dex/wis and if i want greater anything but grapple i need a 13 int as well. I like the feats but as you said going the dex rout and combat reflexes eats a feat and neck slot and the feat trees and combos take so many feats to begin with. But all in all im glad i didnt listen to all the hate i like my monk.