On the SRD it says that his base attack bonus is +3, and at the current level I have one additional attack from my flurry of blows. But it also says there is a flurry of blows attack bonus of +3/+3. What does that mean? How many times can I actually attack when using my flurry of blows?
Also, when not using FoB how many attacks can I make? I plan on using only unarmed, so can I use both hands to make two attacks?
This is what I am using to get all the information, if that is needed.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk
So, when not using Flurry of Blows, I can only make one attack?
and do I add those +3's on top of my monks class level to my BAB to hit? or are those +3's to damage I deal?
So, when not using Flurry of Blows, I can only make one attack?
and do I add those +3's on top of my monks class level to my BAB to hit? or are those +3's to damage I deal?
The +3's are your to hit. So two attacks, each at +3 when Flurrying. Your monk level has already been figured into the +3 total. If you aren't using a Full Attack action to Flurry, you only get a single attack, with +3 to hit (plus any appropriate modifiers like STR, etc.).
Normally, you only have a +3 to hit from your 3/4 BAB. When you flurry, you use your monk level as your total and get extra attack(s) like you were two weapon fighting. So that would give you +5/+5 at your current level. You also take a negative 2 penalty to your attacks while flurrying though (reminiscent of two weapon fighting) so that brings you to +3/+3. You then add any other modifiers as appropriate (like your STR bonus) for your total attack routine. So a 5th level monk with an 18 Strength and no other bonuses to hit or damage would have a +7/+7 to attack while Flurrying, and do 1d8+4 damage on each attack that hits.
If you are not flurrying then you use only your BAB and any modifiers to hit, you do not use your monk level as your BAB if not flurrying...so at level 5 you have a BAB of +3, so that's one attack...lets say:
Monk 5, STR of 18, thats a +4 modifier and you are striking unarmed, your attack(s) would be:
Not Flurrying: +7 (1d8+4) one attack at +7 to hit and 1d8+4 damage
Flurrying: +7/+7 (1d8+4) two attacks at +7 to hit and 1d8+4 damage
If you are not flurrying you only get the attacks based off your BAB...so when you reach level 8 and have a BAB of +6/+1, then you get two attacks when not flurrying and 4 attacks +6/+6/+1/+1 when you are flurrying
The reason it doesn't seem to change your bonuses even though you are using your level as BAB when flurrying is that FoB acts like Two-Weapon fighting, so you are take a -2 to every attack...to explain that lets say again you are:
Monk 5, your BAB when flurrying is +5 right...and you get 2 attacks right...so that WOULD be +5/+5 but you take the -2 to both attacks making it +3/+3
So, I do have a couple more questions, though they are a little bit unrelated.
If I wanted to use a cestus, how would that affect the damage I deal? also, in the weapons description it says it has a chance of delivering bludgeoning or piercing damage, how do I calculate those?
So, I do have a couple more questions, though they are a little bit unrelated.
If I wanted to use a cestus, how would that affect the damage I deal? also, in the weapons description it says it has a chance of delivering bludgeoning or piercing damage, how do I calculate those?
Cestus allows you to deal Bludgeoning or Piercing damage. You choose which at the time you make the attack. When attacking with the Cestus, you use its damage, the 1d4. Technically, the way it is written means that wearing it also allows you to deal piercing damage with your monk unarmed strike (which is 1d8 at 5th level), but don't expect to be able to apply enhancements to the cestus to your unarmed strikes. They've errata'd that away so no weapon uses your unarmed strike damage anymore.
You don't want to use one brother...they do less damage than your normal fist at 1d4 while at level 5 you do 1d8 with just your unarmed strikes.
If a weapon does 2 types of damage like B or P, then it does one of the two types at any given time, you have to choose when you attack
If a weapon does 2 types of damage like S and P, then it does BOTH types at the same time, no choice is made
as for calculating it, it only matters if you come up against DR or something like that so
for a B or P weapon, lets say you are fighting skeletons, they have DR5/Bludgeoning...in this case you want to make sure you choose to do B damage to bypass the DR, if you do P damage it will not and you will do 5 less damage per attack
HOWEVER, same skeleton, DR5/Bludgeoning, but you are using a B and P weapon, the weapon does B damage already so thereby bypasses the DR without you having to choose
If you are not flurrying then you use only your BAB and any modifiers to hit, you do not use your monk level as your BAB if not flurrying...so at level 5 you have a BAB of +3, so that's one attack...lets say:
Monk 5, STR of 18, thats a +4 modifier and you are striking unarmed, your attack(s) would be:
Not Flurrying: +7 (1d8+4) one attack at +7 to hit and 1d8+4 damage
Flurrying: +7/+7 (1d8+4) two attacks at +7 to hit and 1d8+4 damage
If you are not flurrying you only get the attacks based off your BAB...so when you reach level 8 and have a BAB of +6/+1, then you get two attacks when not flurrying and 4 attacks +6/+6/+1/+1 when you are flurrying
The reason it doesn't seem to change your bonuses even though you are using your level as BAB when flurrying is that FoB acts like Two-Weapon fighting, so you are take a -2 to every attack...to explain that lets say again you are:
Monk 5, your BAB when flurrying is +5 right...and you get 2 attacks right...so that WOULD be +5/+5 but you take the -2 to both attacks making it +3/+3
if you are further confused please ask :)
Ok, so some of this doesn't make sense.
According to Flurry of Blows (FoB), you treat your Base Attack Bonus (BAB) as equal to your Monk Level. So at lvl 15, you get a total of 3 separate attacks, which normally would have a BAB of 11/6/1, but in the case of FoB, they are effectively 15/10/5 ? due to natural negatives for consecutive attacks? (this is a question in order to clarify that each attack (attk) is not actually 15 - 15/15/15, as could be concluded with the information given).
Then there are the negatives that FoB adds {"At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat)"}. With Two Weapon Fighting, you receive an extra attk which is made with your off hand (OH). So you now have two attacks, the first with your main hand (MH), the second your OH: MH/OH -2/-2 because "If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light," so with Improved Two Weapon Fighting, you receive a second attack with your OH at a -5, but like with the previous, it should lessen by 2 due to using a light weapon, so you would effectively have the following: MH/OH/OH -2/-2/-3, then with Greater Two Weapon Fighting, it adds yet another attk, this time at -10, but again, due to using a light weapon, this should lessen by 2 and you would effectively have the following: MH/OH/OH/OH -2/-2/-3/-8. (Please confirm or deny as necessary and clarify if I am mistaken for some reason).
Now how exactly does this work along with the additional attacks you get with your normal 3 attacks? Do you receive 3 additional OH attacks in a flurry for each of the 3 attacks you possess? For example: 1st attk: MH 13 OH 13/11/5, 2nd attk: MH 8 OH 8/7/2, 3rd attk: MH 3 OH 3/0/-3 (written in order of highest to lowest, this would effectively look like MH/OH/OH/MH/OH/OH/OH/MH/OH/OH/OH/OH | 13/13/11/8/8/7/5/3/3/2/0/-3); OR do you receive only one set of off handed attacks due to FoB, which do not stack with your main attacks that you naturally get due to a high BAB? For example: MH 13/8/3 and OH 13/12/5 (written in order of highest to lowest, this would effectively look like: MH/OH/OH/MH/OH/MH | 13/13/12/8/5/3)?
I can see that some type of calculation was done on a website that states at lvl 15, your FoB attk bonus looks like this: 13/13/8/8/3/3, but this does not make sense to me based on the calculations that are used in the FoB information, as I hope I've made clear by my questions above.
Please elaborate in great detail for me, if you would be so kind.
Normal Monk attack sequence at level 15: +11/+6/+1
Then we change that to the BAB when flurrying: +15/+10/+5
Now we add the offhand attacks: +15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5
And finally we factor in the -2 penalty for two-weapon fighting: +13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3
Which is exactly what Table 3-10 shows for level 15.
It looks like you are adding attacks onto the flurry of blows sequence listed in Table 3-10.
Ok, so I can see now how the flurry works with attacks, for the most part; it's basically 1 OH attack for every MH attack. I am still not comprehending how the numbers come about, though.
According to Flurry of Blows (FoB), you treat your Base Attack Bonus (BAB) as equal to your Monk Level (lvl). So at lvl 15, you get a total of 3 separate attacks with your main hand, which normally would have a BAB of 11/6/1 (Each starting at 11, and each consecutive attack taking a consecutively greater penalty in 5 point increments), but in the case of FoB, they are effectively 15/10/5, due to using the Monk lvl.
Then there are the negatives that FoB adds for your OH attacks. They match the penalties applied to your MH attacks, in that they are consecutively greater in 5 point increments {"At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat)"}.
With Two Weapon Fighting, you receive an extra attk which is made with your off hand (OH). So you now have two attacks, the first with your main hand (MH), the second your OH: MH/OH -2/-2 because "If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light," so with Improved Two Weapon Fighting, you receive a second attack with your OH at a -5, but like with the previous, it should lessen by 2 due to using a light weapon (correct?), so you would effectively have the following: MH/OH/OH -2/-2/-3, then with Greater Two Weapon Fighting, it adds yet another attk, this time at -10, but again, due to using a light weapon, this should lessen by 2 and you would effectively have the following: MH/OH/OH/OH -2/-2/-3/-8.
Each of these OH attacks are based on the BAB of your main hand (15 at lvl 15 when using FoB) and have already accounted for the negatives you would have from multiple attacks.
Because of this, the multiple attacks at lvl 15, while using flurry of blows, should be 13/13/12/12/7/7.
Can you explain why the consecutive attack penalties are not being lessened by the use of a light weapon, and why the penalties are not being taken from the main BAB in your example?
There is a pretty massive difference between 13/13/12/12/7/7/ and 13/13/8/8/3/3, and in fact the calculations just do not make any sense to me. Where are the 8 and 3 coming from? It appears that you are taking a second penalty that normally would not be there and pinning it to the already active and calculated penalties.
13 is not the BAB that we are calculating from. 15 is. Each attack begins at 15 when using flurry of blows. Each consecutive attack takes an increasingly larger penalty. Normal MH attacks show this normal penalty in the BAB (11/6/1). Normal OH attacks follow the same rules, as far as I can tell from the calculations involved. Using a light weapon is supposed to lessen these penalties with the Two Weapon Fighting feats. And the calculations for all the penalties are supposed to be coming from the main BAB of 15, not from the already calculated penalized BAB of 13.
Even if I'm completely and totally wrong about consecutive attacks having their negatives lessened by a light weapon, the calculation would still be 13/13/10/10/5/5, not 13/13/8/8/3/3.
And if I am again wrong, and somehow the negatives for each consecutive OH attack receive their penalties from the matching MH attack's BAB, despite it having already been reduced by its own penalties; the numbers would be 13/13/7/7/-3/-3, or 13/13/5/5/-5/-5, and not 13/13/8/8/3/3.
The numbers don't add up as they are written in the rules. I cannot see anywhere that says the calculations for consecutive attacks are supposed to be subtracted from an already penalized number.
The act of bringing back a thread that has been laying inactive for a very long time, as if bringing it back from the dead (as if through necromancy). The amount of time necessary for it to be considered a "necro" is debatable, but anything that has been resting for over half a year certainly qualifies, and the one you raised here was inactive for more than three.
When you find posts via searches, please pay attention to the dates of the last posts before posting a reply. If it has been gone for too long, consider making a new thread instead.
Two-weapon fighting using light weapons assigns a -2 attack penalty to your attacks.
So if you have 15/10/5 and then you add in bonus attacks from TWF, Imp. TWF, Gr. TWF you have 15/15/10/10/5/5.
But you still have to factor in the -2 penalty. That drops it to 13/13/8/8/3/3.
I don't know why you are coming up with -2/-2/-3/-3/-8. It should be -2/-2/-7/-7/-12/-12
necro is when you post on a thread that hasn't had posts for a long time. It's considered dead because the info is usually outdated.
lv15 flurry of blows.
all penalties stack, the second attack at -5 and third attack at -10 are in addition to the penalties you get for TWF/flurry which is -2.
Flurry of blows says, "taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls" same as TWF with a light off hand.
so first set are at 13, being 15-2
second set are at 8. 13-5 for shorthand, 15-2-5 for full calculation
third set are at 3. 8-5 for shorthand, 15-2-5-5 or 15-2-10 for full.
"Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action.
When doing so, he may make one additional attack, taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to utilize this ability).
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks."
My calculations are coming from the information in Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Which is what flurry of blows is built upon. As you can see, the calculations change from one to the next.
Quote:
Two-Weapon Fighting:
"Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light."
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting:
"Benefit: In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty.
Normal: Without this feat, you can only get a single extra attack with an off-hand weapon."
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting:
"Benefit: You get a third attack with your off-hand weapon, albeit at a –10 penalty."
all the penalties stack. So if you have a light off-hand the TWF penalties is -2 to both hands. This stacks with the -5 and -10 penalties to the extra attacks granted from the feats.
all the penalties stack. So if you have a light off-hand the TWF penalties is -2 to both hands. This stacks with the -5 and -10 penalties to the extra attacks granted from the feats.
That doesn't explain where the numbers 13/13/8/8/3/3 are coming from. It doesn't explain the difference between the MH and OH calculations as explained in the feats that flurry of blows is based on.
Maybe I'm super dense, but it isn't making sense to me compared to what I read.
Could someone please explain the calculations to me so I can understand it?
Off Topic:
I'm not sure why there is something wrong with responding to a thread previously neglected if the topic fits...
First Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows Penalty) = 13
First Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows Penalty) = 13
Second Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows Penalty) - 5 (Improved Two Weapon Fighting Penalty) = 8
Second Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows Penalty) - 5 (Improved Two Weapon Fighting Penalty) = 8
Third Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows Penalty) - 10 (Greater Improved Two Weapon Fighting Penalty) = 3
Third Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows Penalty) - 10 (Greater Improved Two Weapon Fighting Penalty) = 3
Necro is seen as bad because with new books, errata and FAQs the debate and advice given might be out of date.
the second and probably bigger reason. Since your question isn't a continuation of the discussion but your own new question, you shouldn't post it in a dead thread that people have to figure out where the new post is and because none of the old thread is needed. If you have a question create a new thread instead of necroing an old thread.
Wait, I might see the problem. Flurry of blows assumes you are using a light weapon in the off hand. You don't get to "ignore" the -4 penalty to using a light weapon on top of the flurry of blows base, because it is already calculated in there. It looks like that might be what you are doing.
If you were using TWF feat with one handed weapons and 0 bab you'd have -4/-4
at 6 bab with ITWF you'd have +2/+2/-3/-3
at 11 bab with GTWF you'd have +7/+7/+2/+2/-3/-3
If you go to a light off hand the TWF penalty is reduced by 2, meaning the the -4 to main and off hand becomes -2 to main and off hand.
But either way, the penalties STACK, so the extra attack at -5 still has the -2 or -4 because you are TWF. The attacks granted by feats are at the same penalty/bonys as their corresponding iterative attack.
First Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) = 13
First Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) = 13
Second Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) - 5 (Main Hand second iterative attack penalty) = 8
Second Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) - 5 (Off Hand second iterative attack penalty) = 8
Third Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) - 10 (Main Hand third iterative attack penalty) = 3
Third Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) - 10 (Off Hand third iterative attack penalty) = 3
Hopefully this helps.
Komoda is mostly correct but the terminology needs improving. I fixed it (bolded).
The simple way to think of this is:
If your Base Attack Bonus (BAB) is 15 then you have the following:
15/10/5 where 15 is your first iterative attack, 10 (BAB-5) is your second iterative attack, and 5 (BAB-10) is your third iterative attack.
Next, Two Weapon Fighting gives you an extra attack at your best BAB so now you have 15/15/10/5.
Second that Improved Two Weapon Fighting gives you an extra attack at your second iterative attack bonus (BAB-5) so now you have 15/15/10/10/5.
Third, Greater Two Weapon Fighting gives you an extra attack at your third iterative attack bonus (BAB-10) so that now you have 15/15/10/10/5/5.
But, we cannot forget about the penalties for using a off-hand weapon. Those penalties will be either -4 (1handed weapon) or -2 (light weapon). Unarmed Strikes count as a light weapon giving us a -2 penalty to all attacks.
That gives us our final result of 13/13/8/8/3/3.
Flurry of Blows just gives you a table that matches this calculation.
at 1st i was like wtf are you talking about lvl 5 monk with only a +3 base attack bonus then i remember chained monks are still a thing, then i realised its a post from 2013 and that some one just necroed the thread
First Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) = 13
First Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) = 13
Second Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) - 5 (Main Hand second iterative attack penalty) = 8
Second Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) - 5 (Off Hand second iterative attack penalty) = 8
Third Main Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) - 10 (Main Hand third iterative attack penalty) = 3
Third Off Hand Attack it is 15 (Base) - 2 (Flurry of Blows aka Two Weapon Fighting light off hand weapon penalty) - 10 (Off Hand third iterative attack penalty) = 3
Hopefully this helps.
Komoda is mostly correct but the terminology needs improving. I fixed it (bolded).
The simple way to think of this is:
If your Base Attack Bonus (BAB) is 15 then you have the following:
15/10/5 where 15 is your first iterative attack, 10 (BAB-5) is your second iterative attack, and 5 (BAB-10) is your third iterative attack.
Next, Two Weapon Fighting gives you an extra attack at your best BAB so now you have 15/15/10/5.
Second that Improved Two Weapon Fighting gives you an extra attack at your second iterative attack bonus (BAB-5) so now you have 15/15/10/10/5.
Third, Greater Two Weapon Fighting gives you an extra attack at your third iterative attack bonus (BAB-10) so that now you have 15/15/10/10/5/5.
But, we cannot forget about the penalties for using a off-hand weapon. Those penalties will be either -4 (1handed weapon) or -2 (light weapon). Unarmed Strikes count as a light weapon...
