Venziir |
Hey Pathfinders! So, I need some help and advice here, I've got an idea for my next character; a gun-wielding cleric of Taldor. However, before constructing this character, I'd like your input regarding, well everything really. Ability scores, feats, traits, races etc. The character is level 6, and the only thing I need it to be is a cleric, with a gun, that actually works! Thank you in advance!
Swordjockey |
if you want to do this correctly you're going to have to multiclass, as getting guns and ammunition will be prohibitively expensive without it. also you need to go gunslinger because they are the only one who gets the deed that makes clearing your gun on a misfire on anything close to a reasonable speed. As the only other solution is to have lots of guns and that is too expensive for most players. On the whole it's not a bad idea as both clerics and gunslingers use wisdom.
The first thing I'd recommend doing is figuring out your archetypes. The default gunslinger is not the best without advance firearms, if you are also going cleric do not pick mystery strange as an archetype as then you'll have to split ability points across dex wis and cha. So think of whether you want to be close range or long-range if you're going close range go Pistolero, if long-range go musket master.
second be careful to keep your armor down to light and have no encumbrance as some gunslinger abilities are lost if you violate this. you will also need speed as you need to be within the first range increment to get the touch AC bonus with firearms. also if you go musket master do not try to go for rate of fire as misfires can force you to abort the action. Instead start building up how many attacks you can make as a full round action so that when you reach 7th level the dead shot deed will give you an attempt for an extra d12 on the attack roll. If you're going for pistols misfires can be mitigated with multiple pistols.
Nefreet |
If this is for Society play, I assume you mean you have a 6th level GM credit blob you're making this out of?
The Advice Forum would be your best bet, but just keep in mind that in PFS only characters with the Gunsmithing feat can purchase firearms, which means you'll need to grab it fairly soon (if you're going pure Cleric and not multiclassing with Gunslinger).
I'd also suggest the Amateur Gunslinger feat, paying attention to the Quick Clear Deed so you can repair your gun after a misfire.
And, of course, you're going to need the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat.
So, you won't be actually using a gun until level 5 or 7, but since you're starting at 6 that cuts away most of the pain.
Stats? Well, you're still a primary caster, so Wis > Dex
pts
(+0) STR 10
(+5) DEX 14
(+5) CON 14
(+0) INT 10
(10) WIS 16 + 2 = 18
(+0) CHA 10
You don't have much use for STR, but depending on how much you want to Channel or how many skill points you want feel free to dump or increase CHA or INT. You can go with a lower WIS if you want, but you don't need much DEX since you're targeting touch AC and you'll have buffs like Blessing of Fervor and Divine Favor.
Feats:
1st: Gunsmithing, (bonus) Amateur Gunslinger
3rd: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms)
5th: Rapid Reload (double barrel pistol) <== just my personal suggestion
7th: Point Blank Shot
9th: Rapid Shot
11th: Something to boost your caster abilities, like Spell Penetration, or something
And your big expensive purchase will be to save up for Greater Reliable on your Double Barrel Pistol, which then means you can retrain Amateur Gunslinger because you'll never misfire again.
If you have an extra 10k to spend, there's even an Ioun Stone that can give you Exotic Weapon Proficiency (and Weapon Focus, too, if it's slotted in your Wayfinder), which means you could retrain that feat as well.
Swordjockey |
for ability scores focus on dex and wis you may want to scrap charisma entirely to boost dex or wis.
races I'd recommend first anything with a base speed of 30 feet the drarf is tempting with the ability to reduce misfires if gunslinger is his favorite class but as mentioned you have to be up in the first range increment to get touch AC which as the game goes on will extremely useful as most enemies that touch AC either moves up much more slowly or in some cases goes down the father you get, and that loss of 10 feet will hurt you. my preferred recommendation if your multiclass with cleric and gunslinger is half elves as they can have two favorite classes and they get good bonuses for both favorite class options.
The feats rapid reload if you don't get is a bonus feat, Precise Shot and point-blank shot as it is a prerequisite for many others. And possibly later on rapid shot but as mentioned that will not be very useful until later in the game when you can get either multiple guns, are able to reduce reload times down to free actions, or have the Dead shot deed. The rest would be standard cleric feasts.
traits don't matter that much but consider either Reactionary or Killer for gunslinger focus trait or one of the religion treats for a cleric based on whichever domain you're focused on.
Nefreet |
And, of course, once you put 1 rank into Craft (alchemy) you can score a pretty hefty discount on your ammunition.
Nefreet |
Multiclass eh? Right then, so Gunslinger1/Cleric5 would that be viable?
If you go with Human and grab a bonus feat, or Half-Elf and grab Exotic Weapon Proficiency as your bonus feat, I don't think you need to multiclass at all. But then again, I personally don't multiclass much. I'm designing a Bard that uses a double-barrel pistol that won't be multiclassing at all, either. But it does mean your feats are pretty set.
Nefreet |
My concept was something along a preachy conquistador with a rifle (musket) or a pistol
Pistols, with the Rapid Reload feat, and using Alchemical Cartridges, can be reloaded as a free action, which means the potential for getting multiple shots per round.
Muskets, with Rapid Reload, and Cartridges, still take a move action to reload, so you'll only ever be able to fire once a round.
The Musket Master Gunslinger archetype can lower the speed of reloading a Musket by another step, to a free action, but not until level 3, so you'd be Cleric-3/Gunslinger-3 at the very least.
So I'd recommend Pistol, or Double Barrel Pistol.
Nefreet |
You can go with Precise Shot if you want, but if you follow the feat progression I mentioned up thread you won't get it until 9th at the earliest, and that'll be in place of Rapid Shot. You could still grab it at 11th, though.
I played a Gunslinger to level 12. Generally as I played higher level games the touch ACs of most opponents started to drop. When I played in a Tier 12-13 special with said character, the BBEG had a touch AC under 10, and my to-hit was something like +20, plus Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot.
It was overkill. Granted, being a Cleric you won't have as high of a BAB, or Dex, but I don't think it'll hurt you much. By level 9, with a BAB of +6, a double-barrel pistol, and either Blessing of Fervor or Haste, you'll have 6 shots/round. Your damage won't be that impressive compared to a Gunslinger, but you'll deal consistent damage, and you'll still have your spellcasting to fall back on.
I think that's pretty awesome.
Once the sun hits the east coast and ppl see this thread, they may disagree, though.
Nefreet |
By taking the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat you actually gain proficiency with all firearms, including pistols, double-barrel pistols, muskets, double-barrel muskets, pepperboxes, blunderbuses (blunderbi?), etc., so you actually have the freedom to carry around more than one gun, like a double-barrel pistol and a single-barrel musket, but as Swordjockey mentioned it gets rather expensive, and the pistol is the only one you'll get more than one shot a round with.
Venziir |
I have to ask, though. You're saying your character will start out at level 6, but I notice on your profile you only have a level 4 character, and you don't seem to have GMed many games yet for credit.
Are you running something like Dragon's Demand and about to finish up?
Nah, I just suck at updating my account heh.
Nefreet |
Gunslingers eventually add their Dexterity modifier to damage. If you're going Cleric, you won't. You won't ever deal as much damage as a dedicated Gunslinger, but with multiple ammo types to overcome Damage Reduction and an eventual 6 shots a round you'll deal consistent, regular damage, while still being a full caster.
The feat Deadly Aim boosts damage as well. It's like Power Attack for ranged weapons.
By level 9, with Divine Favor, Point Blank Shot, and a +1 gun, you'll deal (at least) 1d8+5 damage, with (at least) 4 shots on a full attack, targeting touch AC, with a dozen different types of ammunition to choose from.
You'll be a Cleric nobody will forget.
Swordjockey |
The way misfire works is two part the first misfire brakes the gun and increases the misfire chance by four.
misfires are decided by low rolls so lets say you are using a double barreled pistol which has a misfire chance of 1-2 and use alchemy cartridges to reduce reload time that increases the misfire chance by one so now you have a misfire chance of 1-3 and you roll three on your Attack roll your gun will now misfire even if with all modifies it would normally hit, your gun is now broken and the misfire chance goes up by four if you choose to attack again using just traditional black powder you have a misfire chance of 1-6 so if you roll anything between one and six on the second attempt your gun will now explode and is destroyed it will damage you and everyone around you in a 5 foot area. Fortunately you can use Quick Clear Deed to fix a gun that's been broken by misfire as a standard action or as a move action if you choose to spend a grit point, without Quick Clear it will take one hour to repair a gun from broken condition regardless of how it got it. You can get grit points back by killing enemies or making critical hits.
Also double pistols are not like small shotguns that would be a dragon pistol and they require special ammunition. they are great to have because they allow you to easily kill swarms.
As for why I recommend going multiclass and it is because then you don't have to spend feat to get exotic weapons proficiency (firearms), a feat to get gunsmithing to reduce the cost of ammunition, a feat to get amateur gunslinger, and a feat the Quick Clear Deed. all of those are provided at just one level of gunslinger. And as a gunslinger you get a gun for free at first level that you can upgrade for 300 gp. you also get additional deeds
As for how the guns can do so much damage it's not so much that they do a lot of damage by themselves it is the touch AC factor that means you're more likely to hit on every attack and they have a 4X on criticals or as I mentioned earlier the dead shot deed but you have to have seven levels of gunslinger to pull that off.
Silbeg |
Really, it all depends on how clericky you need to be.
If you really want to be effective with a gun, more than one level of Gunslinger will be needed.
However, Cleric and Gunslinger do have some synergy (around WIS, for example).
Suggestion:
Gunslinger (Musketmaster) 5/Cleric 1 (human)
STR13, DEX16, CON14, INT10, WIS16, CHA10 (at 6th)
Feats: Gunsmithing, Point Blank Short, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload(Musket), [one more feat!]
This will give you everything you're really going to need for gun combat... including the ability to reload your musket as a 1-H firearm, and the ability to add your DEX to your damage. You'll be something like +10 (1d12+6) [single shot, no deadly aim] to +6/+6 (1d12+10)
You could even pull something off with a race that gets +WIS and +DEX (not sure what that would be other than Undine, though).
You'd then progress as a Cleric the rest of the way. However, this will severely hamper your ability AS a cleric (which is why my gunslinger multi-classed to Inquisitor - felt like it stacked better)
Something worth thinking about, though. I really think that Gunslinger requires 5 levels to come into its own, so splashing isn't all that effective (unless you are going to be using guns as a secondary thing... in which case, why bother?)
Zach W. |
I have a Gunslinger/Inquisitor of Old Dead Eye who functions as a cop.
I went 1 level Gunslinger (mysterious stranger) at level 1, then went everything else Inquisitor. While he is far from optimized (Fur domain so I could have a police k-9(wolf) companion), and then boon companion to keep him up with me, and then not taking the size increase, and a wide stat spread, he is still EXTREMELY effective. He takes a little wind up but when he does, it is a lot of death and pain.
The biggest problem you will have using cleric is the amount of states you need.
STR to carry everything (seriously gunslinger stuff is HEAVY)
DEX for shooting
CON because you will be close in
WIS for spells/grit
CHA for channel
The only dump stat you have is INT, and we only start with 20 point buy. You could dump CHA if you did not want to channel.
You could go Pistol Preacher, with Oracle, that way CHA stacks with Mysterious Stranger, and you can dump WIS from the abilities you need. If you go Oracle of Battle you can get some good buffs.
Silbeg |
Here's something I hadn't thought about (probably not a big deal, but still...)
It looks like Gun Tank and Pistolero actually stack! That might be kind of interesting... since a Pistolero needs to be close in, and the Gun Tank gives him the armor to be able to do it.
Not saying I'd make such a character, but it is interesting.
Nefreet |
To be brutally honest, unless you take Gunslinger to level 5 or so, firearms are very suboptimal and resource intensive.
Well, looking at this new combination, the Warpriest gets bonus combat feats every 3 levels, and their Sacred Weapon gets some nice damage buffs over time, plus whatever blessings you choose, so although you lose the primary caster status of the Cleric, your base damage increases pretty nicely.
In fact, if you want to go Half-elf, with Ancestral Arms racial trait, and pure Warpriest...
Feats:
1st: Gunsmithing, (bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency, (bonus) Weapon Focus
3rd: Amateur Gunslinger, (bonus) Rapid Reload
5th: Point Blank Shot
6th: (bonus) Rapid Shot <== just in time for BAB +6 with Sacred Weapon
7th: Deadly Aim
9th: something else, (bonus) something else
11th: something else
Comte de Rochefort |
Here's something I hadn't thought about (probably not a big deal, but still...)
It looks like Gun Tank and Pistolero actually stack! That might be kind of interesting... since a Pistolero needs to be close in, and the Gun Tank gives him the armor to be able to do it.
Not saying I'd make such a character, but it is interesting.
Completely off topic but i'm playing a Gun Tank/Pistolero in PFS. only problem with Heavy Armor is to get the most out of your Dex Bonus you need Mithral Full Plate or similar armor.
Back to the main topic. As this if a PFS character, at least it seems to be one, the Black Powder Inquisition is not PFS legal. I agree with Nefreet,if you don't take levels in Gunslinger then Gunsmithing, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms), and Amateur Gunslinger are must have feats.
Venziir |
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Right then, I made my character. Gunslinger1/cleric 5, wearing a breastplate, a buckler and the double-barreled pistol, chaotic good follower of Caidan and likes to get his booze on. Basically a conquistador who decided that drinking and having fun was a lot more fun than going to church. Thank you all for your input; you are awesome!