Another question:
I'm a monk with a Guisarme and do not have the improved trip feat
An opponent provokes an AoO at 10 feet distance
I decide to trip him but because of the lack of improved trip my trip attempt provokes an AoO from my opponent.
Now I have reach and he doesn't but is he:
1) Allowed to take a 5-foot step and then make the AoO?
(If for example he provoked an AoO because he wants to pick up an item)
2) If allowed, is it any different when he provokes the AoO by wanting to move out of reach with a regular move?
MoshiMaro wrote: Another question:
I'm a monk with a Guisarme and do [U]not[/U] have the improved trip feat
An opponent provokes an AoO at 10 feet distance
I decide to trip him but because of the lack of improved trip my trip attempt provokes an AoO from my opponent.
Now I have reach and he doesn't but is he:
1) Allowed to take a 5-foot step and then make the AoO?
(If for example he provoked an AoO because he wants to pick up an item)
2) If allowed, is it any different when he provokes the AoO by wanting to move out of reach with a regular move?
It doesn't provoke an AoO because he's not threatening your square.
You also can't take a 5-ft step outside of your turn unless you have special feats or class abilities that allow you to do so, or if you have readied an action.
As mentioned in your other post about tripping, Trips "interrupt" the normal flow of combat and occur "before" the offending action. (hence why you can't trip a prone character standing up - he's already prone)
The best this character can hope for is a situation which would allow him to take an AoO on the tripper... interrupting him.
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Betsuni wrote: The best this character can hope for is a situation which would allow him to take an AoO on the tripper... interrupting him. The 2nd question is tied to the other post indeed. But to clear things up in the other post I'm assuming my character has improved trip in this post I'm assuming he has not. The posts follow each other up because I'm wondering whether or not I actually should take Improved Trip as a feat.
redward wrote: It doesn't provoke an AoO because he's not threatening your square.
You also can't take a 5-ft step outside of your turn
But it is my opponents turn so he should be able to take a 5-foot step, I am only wondering if he can make a 5-foot step in response to my AoO and then he will be able to AoO in return because he does now threaten...
All this because a 5-foot step is defined as a miscellaneous action and says:
PRD wrote: Take 5-Foot Step
......
You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.
I think it can't be done but I'm not 100% sure
PRD wrote: Making an Attack of Opportunity:
......
An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity
It says indeed immediately but the exception is when an AoO triggers an AoO so I'm still wondering if there is a small chance you can also wiggle in a 5-foot step
Quote: But it is my opponents turn so he should be able to take a 5-foot step ... This is correct... however your opponent is stuck with his current action of picking something up. He can't interrupt himself. Nor does it sound like he has reach in which he can try to interrupt you. You do provoke an AoO (since you don't have the improved trip feat) but alas he cannot act upon the oppertunity.
Also note that a 5ft Step cannot be taken during another action. He must finish the act of picking up something (or not). Once that is resolved he can then he can use his 5ft step.
Betsuni wrote:
Also note that a 5ft Step cannot be taken during another action. He must finish the act of picking up something (or not). Once that is resolved he can then he can use his 5ft step.
According to the definition of a 5-foot step you can
PRD wrote:
Take 5-Foot Step
......
You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.
Of course I assume that line is only in there to make a 5-foot step possible during a full-round action, but it says "during"
You were not in a square that he threatened when you made the trip attempt. Therefore, you do no provoke an attack of opportunity from him. He cannot interrupt your attack of opportunity to do any normal actions (such as a 5 foot step).
If he readied an action to take a five foot step and attack when you made your trip attempt, he'd five foot, the trip would fail and then he'd bop you, but he wouldn't get an AoO because the trip fails without a check.
Simplest answer: an AoO is just an attack roll. No other actions can be combined as part of it, not even a 5 ft step. So if the enemy doesn't have enough reach to take advantage of you provoking the AoO, then he can't take the shot.
Fromper wrote: Simplest answer: an AoO is just an attack roll. No other actions can be combined as part of it, not even a 5 ft step. So if the enemy doesn't have enough reach to take advantage of you provoking the AoO, then he can't take the shot. That seems the most plausible to me as well. The 5-foot step being a miscellaneous action and the during an action made me have some doubts though...
Thanks for the replies.
The during, is so you can swift/move, shift, attack. (assuming you dont "move" with your move action.)
He couldn't take a 5' step during the pickup action because he has to be in the same spot to pick the item up. You can't pick an item up while simultaneously stepping away from it. Now if you were attacking someone, I'd argue that you could step from one square to another so long as you can attack the target from both squares; not that it'd be particularly useful in most cases. But it doesn't make sense to take a 5' step during an action that requires you to be in a single square.
no, but you can buff as a swift, shift as a move, then attack as a standard.
Quote: Take 5-Foot Step
......
You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.
What its saying is you can either:
A) 5' before your swift and std
B) 5' after you buff (swift) and attack(std)
C) buff (swift) [so it wouldnt provoke for example], shift, then attack.
I think the wording is a throwback to confusion about only at the front or end of your turn
or using the example you gave...
well... swift (some random thingamabobber...) pick up item (In square) - move; std: shift
or
swift, shift, pick up item (again in current square.
Kazaan wrote: He couldn't take a 5' step during the pickup action because he has to be in the same spot to pick the item up. You can't pick an item up while simultaneously stepping away from it. This post is not about picking up an item....
The economy of movement is almost always maintained. unless the opponent had reach, or a specific ability (dweomercats have an ability allowing something like moving and AoO)
edit:
meaning, 5' step or movement in general is a move action. There are some class abilities that can let you move and AoO, or move instead of AoO, but normally, no...
IejirIsk wrote: no, but you can buff as a swift, shift as a move, then attack as a standard.
Quote: Take 5-Foot Step
......
You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.
What its saying is you can either:
A) 5' before your swift and std
B) 5' after you buff (swift) and attack(std)
C) buff (swift) [so it wouldnt provoke for example], shift, then attack.
I think the wording is a throwback to confusion about only at the front or end of your turn
In your explanation of the wording the line should read between instead of during
As I already posted on the confusing 'during an action' line probably refers to a Full-round action:
MoshiMaro wrote: I assume that line is only in there to make a 5-foot step possible during a full-round action, but it says "during" Anyways this post is solved imo...
Thanks for the input.
There will be no AoO to worry about since the tripper was not in a threatened square of the tripee. You cannot take an immediate action 5 foot step to put yourself INTO a threatened square so that you can take an AoO be cause he was never provoked in the first place. The 5 foot step element is never in play and action economy never comes into play. You can trip with a reach weapon all day long as long as opponents only have a 5 foot threatened area. The 10 foot away opponent will never have a chance to react
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