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*Shrug*
And I want a half-orc paladin. Oh well. There will always be more possible characters than figures to represent them.
Wizards of the coast had a half Orc paladin in one of their plastic releases. Not that this helps the point you were trying to make.
Edit - reaper also has three models in their Orc range that might suit. Do a search for male > Orc> any weapon > wearing plate
I like the distribution of genders. I wish there was more distribution of races in the minis though, but that is because i like alot of the uncommon races paizo has released, and we dont yet have minis for alot of them even from other sources (like say the wayang).
In terms of gender distribution, im kind of happy with an increased presence of female minis, including many that are reasonably dressed (iconic paladin, and cleric come to mind). At a game session this past weekend there were 3 female players and 3 male, and it was nice that my collection of pathfinder minis actually offered the female players some options. I think in time the paizo mini set will expand and we have a massive backlog of wizards and reaper minis to use. I cant really understand how someone might have difficulty finding a male representation for a character unless A they didnt really try, or B its something really exotic (like afformentioned wayang).
Try finding a fat male model. Occasionally you get a fat zombie type, but you are lucky to find any fat models out there at all.
There was a great one that came out in one of the D&D miniatures sets called Tavern Brawler. He's not grossly obese, but has an obvious beer belly.
No problem with female characters here,but seriously ...if you can't get a male paladin thats a problem. Not that I would care I'm a Warhammer player and of course I make my own miniatures ,but for those who don't have five cans of green stuff laying around there should be male and female representation for all classes.
No problem with female characters here,but seriously ...if you can't get a male paladin thats a problem. Not that I would care I'm a Warhammer player and of course I make my own miniatures ,but for those who don't have five cans of green stuff laying around there should be male and female representation for all classes.On the flip side, you don't need the male paladin figure to be labeled "paladin". Some guy in armor with a weapon is probably fine. If the "male fighter" figure looks closer to your paladin, use him.
Also, there's plenty of DDM/Reaper miniatures male paladins. Just because Pathfinder Battles hasn't had a chance to produce one yet doesn't mean they aren't available.
There was a great one that came out in one of the D&D miniatures sets called Tavern Brawler. He's not grossly obese, but has an obvious beer belly.
Try finding a fat male model. Occasionally you get a fat zombie type, but you are lucky to find any fat models out there at all.
If you check out other miniature lines you can find it. I think in a similar sense to the often 'cheesecake' female characters, male characters are oftne presented in a certain ideal physical form. But you can find minituares counter to it you just have to look.
No problem with female characters here,but seriously ...if you can't get a male paladin thats a problem.I have never had a hard time finding a male fighter type in sensible armor who could be used to represent a male paladin.
I have very rarely been able to find a sensibly dressed female miniature to represent any class of character I am playing. Because it's kind of boring to play the local brothel prostitute who is not in any way dressed for adventuring or fighting. And that is very largely what most companies that make minis have for all of their female characters.
How about no, I don't want to play a prostitute or a sex toy, I want to play an actual fighter. In actual armor. Or any character who is not running around in her underwear and showing way too much skin and gratuitous bewbage. Those are the seriously hard to find figures, though.
You dont think paizo's miniature line offers a significant amount of female characters in reasonable clothing? Especially with the new platics I think a large portion of the female characters are appropriately clothed.
Ameiko, Lucrecia, shelelu, viorian dekanti, and the warrior of wrath from the rise of the runelords set are appropriately clothed vs seoni and Lyrie which are not. In the heroes and mosnters set the human druid, paladin are also appropriately attired to no humanoid female characters inappropriately clothed.
Games Workshop, Freebooter, Wyrd, Reaper, Privateer Press, etc. etc.
There are a ton of amazing miniatures out there that can be used to represent virtually any pathfinder character you can roll up.
A bit of creativity and a little investment in searching for the right one can go a long way.
I would recommend you take a look at the single for the wizkids pathfinder plastics. While many of the armored characters do have 'boob armor', there are at least a handfull wearing clothing (not armor) that are properly dressed, and I think that some of the armored ones at least dont have overly pronounced 'boob armor'.
Paizo is making large improvements. If I can find some that don't have boob armor (seriously, as a former SCA fighter my suspension of disbelief fails utterly upon seeing this), I'll pick them up.
Boob armor = collapsed sternum
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Wait now, I'm losing track. Am I supposed to be incensed that miniature companies are making too many or too few female miniatures?
Am I supposed to be incensed that the female miniatures are too sexy?
Well, I can't get too worked up over the first, but if someone wants to send me all the chain mail bikini miniatures out there, I'll be sure to review them in fine detail and get back to you.
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More female monsters, please.
With that, for the Reaper model lines especially, I would like to see more female looking demons and tieflings that aren't naked succubi or otherwise titbutttastic.
Have nothing against naked succubi (loves me some Reaper Sophie) and similar models but when they are the only discernibly female "demon," that's an unfair standard being set (do a figure finder search for "female demon" and very large number are topless if not completely naked, and the vast vast vast majority designed to look sexy above anything else). Give me a athletic looking female with some horns and goat feet in a sensible leather cuirass, or a matronly winged demoness garbed in a robe, etc. etc. etc. As options that are in addition to Sophie and her sisters.
As for looking for male figures, there are no shortage of male figures in the miniatures universe, so the OP shouldn't have trouble finding them with the help of the Paizo store, Reaper's site, and Google and other search engines.
I do hope that for the Pathfinder line, there are some distaff counterparts for the iconics (e.g., a male barbarian, a female monk) down the line at some point, but again there are plenty of those in other product lines if not the WizKids Pathfinder line.
*Shrug*
And I want a half-orc paladin. Oh well. There will always be more possible characters than figures to represent them.
DDM had a male half orc paladin, so if you wanted a dude that's available. I've got it, it's pretty decent.
Just a thought: If you want some nice female figures that are not overly cheesecake, you should also look at the old Ral Partha figures. Some (not all) were well done. The first woman I talked into trying RPGs fell in love with several of the Ral Partha figures for the very reason they were reasonable.
Back to Lurking for me. ;-)
That said, can I find a bald, female mini in sensible armor who looks substantial enough to represent my 20 CON mul, wielding a maul (her signature weapon)? No, no I can not. Because I can't have nice things.
In fairness part of that is that there aren't really any mul figurines. ;)
If your character has human-like proportions, I'd take Seelah, file off her hair, and cut off her sword and pin in a hammer instead.
Sorry for going OT, but I'm compulsive about figuring how to model various character concepts in minis.
I believe that a decent and fair split wound be 2:1 male to female.
Fact: Most gamers are male, and most of those play male characters.
Guesstimate: If the minis were made on the same ratio of male to female gamers, then the ratio would likely be about 1000:1
Of course female minis can also be used for npc's, so I do feel there is a need for female minis, in addition for the female gamers out there who I do believe should also have a decent choice of minis to select from.
I will say though, that as I started to sort out my Shattered Star minis, I was quite awestruck at how nearly all the player character minis were female.
I am a big supporter for ensuring there is due representation of player character minis in sets, so I strongly encourage Paizo to please be more aware of the gender ratio of the minis they include in the sets.
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Paizo is making large improvements. If I can find some that don't have boob armor (seriously, as a former SCA fighter my suspension of disbelief fails utterly upon seeing this), I'll pick them up.
I think part of the issue in miniaturisation is they often need to exagerate features in order for them to show up effectively in minature form (From a distance)
From a perspective of easily identifying the miniature on the table as a female, they often mould discernable breasts.
In real life, this would be ridiculous, agreed. However so would most of the armour and weapons the miniatures are carrying, be they male or female.
Reaper in particular has a large number of miniatures who have long hair and wear clothing/armour who are actually male. Without the obvious femininity to the model in terms of breasts, it would be difficult, if not impossible to tell the male and female ones apart. This is particularly true with the elf range of minis. Their ascetic features are similar for male and females.
I'm not sugesting it shouldn't change, or at least some should be moulded as you say. However, miniaturisation is all about exageration to ensure a theme gets across from a certain distance. It's exactly the same as many of the painting techniques that look great. You can make things more subtle with shading and shape, but they actually don't look good on the table top.
Many companies who make miniatures do so for table top straegy games, not exclusively roleplay, so they want it to be visible and discernble at a distance of some 2 or 3 feet.
This very limitation may mean that female models may not change overly dramatically I'm afraid. I suspect if you sent Reaper a question or two about it, you'd find they may well have tried more subtle versions, but they just didn't look right. Worth asking if you're curious or wish to see a change.
Also, best not to ask Werner Klocke for a female mini of the type you're after. His tend to be more about flesh and raunchy positions, which even I find a little ridiculous and embarrassing.
One of their female model makers may take up the challenge though.
Cheers
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking forward to getting my Bombshell Babes
That being said, I look forward to seeing more female minis that are in reasonable armor. There seems to be a trend moving towards it ever so slightly. I don't think we will ever get rid of boob plate though.
If the OP's point was indeed simply that s/he was frustrated that s/he couldn't find male minis for the classes s/he wanted to play, s/he certainly chose wording that was both incendiary and ineffective at conveying the actual point behind the post.
(I'm reminded, by the original post, of a study that showed that the closer movies came to having an equal number of male and female characters (never actually a 50-50 split, mind you -- all of the movies shown had less female than male characters), the more male audience members complained that "there were too many women.")
But in any case, regardless of whether the original post accurately conveys the OP's intent, let's assume good faith and treat the post as if it were saying what the OP later claims s/he was trying to say, and discuss it accordingly.
We already have other threads about sexism and female representation in gaming.
Thanks!
I will say this about why the numbers should be skewed towards male miniatures over a straight split between the sexes. When a group of bandits/guards/etc attacks a group, what sex is that group primarily composed of? Be honest with yourself. I think we all know the answer to that. And thus that is why there should probably be more male miniatures.
Now, should groups that attack the party be composed mainly of males instead of a straight split, perhaps, but until people get more comfortable with that idea, we have to expect the producers to follow the lead of the customers.
I will say though, that as I started to sort out my Shattered Star minis, I was quite awestruck at how nearly all the player character minis were female.
I don't know why you should be shocked: Aren't virtually all the NPCs in the AP female?
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Take a deep look at Reaper minis. You CAN and WILL find male minis that work perfect for Paladins/Clerics. In fact some of the best I've seen for that. Just because they are not "Pathfinder" does not mean that the "Legends" or Warlord minis won't fit the bill to exactly what you want.
I can remember a time when finding a good female mini was impossible. Most like the majority of Ral Partha minis wore nothing but chainmail bikinis, had overly huge breasts, had their mid section sticking out. Many of the minis based on Elmore are like this even today.
Me? I'm thrilled to see more female minis metal and plastic at least for fantasy. Finding them for Sci-Fi is still not that easy but you can find them if you know were to look.
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Now, should groups that attack the party be composed mainly of males instead of a straight split, perhaps, but until people get more comfortable with that idea, we have to expect the producers to follow the lead of the customers.
Perhaps people will become more comfortable with the idea of a mixed-gender bandit group or militia if they have to fall back on using (heaven forbid) female minis :)
In an attempt to not derail this thread too much... as someone who's never bought a miniature in her life, how hard is it to modify the kinds of pre-painted ones that Paizo sells to customise the mini to your liking? Or the Reaper style minis? In the interests of getting more bald, fat, non-white, etc., minis, I mean. I've seen a couple of people say they do this...
Me? I'm thrilled to see more female minis metal and plastic at least for fantasy. Finding them for Sci-Fi is still not that easy but you can find them if you know were to look.
Take a look at some of the heroclix sets. They sometimes have female "mundanes" that fit nicely in to a sci-fi setting (you might need to rebase them). Most of the mundane types are actually dressed reasonably (versus the super-heroines).
Now, should groups that attack the party be composed mainly of males instead of a straight split, perhaps, but until people get more comfortable with that idea, we have to expect the producers to follow the lead of the customers.Perhaps people will become more comfortable with the idea of a mixed-gender bandit group or militia if they have to fall back on using (heaven forbid) female minis :)
Note: That should have been "perhaps not".
I agree, you use what you got. On the other hand, our society tells men it is wrong to hit women (and that is generally a very good thing to tell them). Yet, you can see where that mentality could lead to people being uncomfortable with representing that even in a fantasy game with imaginary NPC women. I could see some men being (subconsciously) worried that they will be perceived to be secretly desiring to abuse women and getting their "jollies off" doing it in a game. It is much safer emotionally then to just fight waves of men, whom nobody considers it inappropriate to attack.
I guess what I am saying is there a very strong social pressure to accept attacking men in combat than there is to attacking women any time. And due to fantasy RPGs wanting to treat women as equals in all aspects, this gives conflicting signals that our society hasn't yet worked out entirely.
In an attempt to not derail this thread too much... as someone who's never bought a miniature in her life, how hard is it to modify the kinds of pre-painted ones that Paizo sells to customise the mini to your liking? Or the Reaper style minis? In the interests of getting more bald, fat, non-white, etc., minis, I mean. I've seen a couple of people say they do this...
Changing up weapons is much easier than changing hair, body size, ethnicity, etc. Those can be done, but if the person doing it isn't very skilled, it can come off as something akin to this.
In an attempt to not derail this thread too much... as someone who's never bought a miniature in her life, how hard is it to modify the kinds of pre-painted ones that Paizo sells to customise the mini to your liking? Or the Reaper style minis? In the interests of getting more bald, fat, non-white, etc., minis, I mean. I've seen a couple of people say they do this...
It depends on what you want to do, but it takes some moderate skill, practice, and investment in some tools and crafting materials (e.g., needle files, needlenose pliers, clippers, a jeweler's saw and/or razor saw, a pin vise and rods for pinning, epoxy putty (see below), wax carvers or other tools to sculpt the putty, a hobby knife, etc.).
Do do something simple like a weapon swap is pretty easy. Cut it off, drill hole in hand, insert new weapon (from a Reaper Weapons Pack or something similar).
Removing features can also be easy provided it's a simple idea. Want the guy holding the weapon to just be empty handed? Clip off the weapon, then file his hand to eliminate any rough spots. Or file off the inappropriate insignia on the shield, etc.
If you want to change features, you're most likely going to have to sculpt it on with putty (usually Kneadatite epoxy blue-yellow putty, AKA "green stuff," which is what most minis are sculpted from before they are cast). Sculpting putty is a bit fiddly to work with and requires some patience but with practice you can do some pretty cool things.
And actually, one cool thing about the scantily clad and naked minis--they're great for modifying because you can just putty on whatever clothes/armor you like without having to remove any unwanted features first. It's much easier to add than subtract. Reaper recently did a zaftig succubus--a lovely sculpt if you like nekkid succubi--who I've thought about getting a few copies of and modifying into various adventuresses by adding various clothes and weapons, for when you don't want a mini that looks like a supermodel (or at least a non plus-size supermodel). Of course the reason I've thought of that is because she's one of very few zaftig female figures out there, and that and the fat barmaid Reaper makes and some battle nun figures out there by a few companies are about all the choice you've got for that kind of body type, unfortunately...
As for doing plastics vs. metal... both have their ups and downsides. The plastics are of course easier to cut up and drill into.
White metal minis take more work to cut and drill, but one thing I like is that if you want to alter a pose slightly, you can gently push their arms and legs (and sometimes head) into a new position and they will hold it--you can't really do that with plastics (though sometimes maybe a little if you heat them up a little in hot water first, but not so well). So like say I've got a monk figure holding his fists up. I could gently manipulate the hands into a different pose and then, say, add a weapon or a spell effect, and suddenly he's a badass looking wizard or rogue. It's also a way to make identical minis look a little different from each other.
For doing body types that are hard to find, you're either going to have to hope you can find something suitable to start with somewhere, or sculpt it from scratch with putty, which requires a lot of time and talent. You can order little armatures to get you started, but even those are made with certain proportions in mind.
It's a lot of work but personally I find mini conversion/modification a lot of fun (sculpting from scratch I'm not good enough to do). I've pondered offering my services here but I'm never sure how much time I have and it's problematic working out payment and shipping.
Reaper recently did a zaftig succubus--a lovely sculpt if you like nekkid succubi--who I've thought about getting a few copies of and modifying into various adventuresses by adding various clothes and weapons.
REALLY?! You don't happen to recall the model # by any chance DQ?
I have yet to graduate to that level of mini-refit skill, but I'm getting there & as has been pointed out in this thread, finding figs for 'less-toned' individuals can be hard.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Reaper recently did a zaftig succubus--a lovely sculpt if you like nekkid succubi--who I've thought about getting a few copies of and modifying into various adventuresses by adding various clothes and weapons.REALLY?! You don't happen to recall the model # by any chance DQ?
I have yet to graduate to that level of mini-refit skill, but I'm getting there & as has been pointed out in this thread, finding figs for 'less-toned' individuals can be hard.
Here you go:
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/succubus/latest/03639NOTE: Link is to a naked lady miniature and likely NSFW.
Guesstimate: If the minis were made on the same ratio of male to female gamers, then the ratio would likely be about 1000:1
Do you really believe women comprise 1/10 of 1% of gamers?
My playgroup is ~71% female. My local brick and mortar is ~10% to 15% female. Your numbers are way off.
Guesstimate: If the minis were made on the same ratio of male to female gamers, then the ratio would likely be about 1000:1
Do you really believe women comprise 1/10 of 1% of gamers?
My playgroup is ~71% female. My local brick and mortar is ~10% to 15% female. Your numbers are way off.
Well everyone knows that most women get into gaming because their significant other is in it already. So given the chances of some people to actually get a date, maybe his ratio isn't all that off. ];->
If the OP's point was indeed simply that s/he was frustrated that s/he couldn't find male minis for the classes s/he wanted to play, s/he certainly chose wording that was both incendiary and ineffective at conveying the actual point behind the post.
(I'm reminded, by the original post, of a study that showed that the closer movies came to having an equal number of male and female characters (never actually a 50-50 split, mind you -- all of the movies shown had less female than male characters), the more male audience members complained that "there were too many women.")
But in any case, regardless of whether the original post accurately conveys the OP's intent, let's assume good faith and treat the post as if it were saying what the OP later claims s/he was trying to say, and discuss it accordingly.
We already have other threads about sexism and female representation in gaming.
Thanks!
Men complain about too many women in movies? 0.o
This sort of thing explains why there are a number of conversations on the boards I do not understand.
Okay, ask yourself this. Why do you want to be less inclusive to women? Because that's what you're being by saying "We should have more male minis". I, personally, think it's bull that most gamers are male. We need more women gamers, and we're only going to do that by shedding the "Guy's club" image which, among other things, is strengthened by the ratio of male to female mini's and characters.
NOTE: Link is to a naked lady miniature and likely NSFW.
Meh, one of the few perqs of working in an adult video store: As long as it's not illegal, it's SFW.
I see what you mean though, that is a nice fig for a BBW... Now I'm thinking about trying 'greening' her.
Wait, that came out wrong...
Fact: Most gamers are male, and most of those play male characters.You're confused about what "fact" means.
And also wrong.
You seriously need to attend GenCon at least once before you make such contradictory statements. It's a fact.
Guesstimate: If the minis were made on the same ratio of male to female gamers, then the ratio would likely be about 1000:1
Do you really believe women comprise 1/10 of 1% of gamers?
My playgroup is ~71% female. My local brick and mortar is ~10% to 15% female. Your numbers are way off.
Your group is the exception. I have spent 30 years of reading countless articles talking about how the hobby is dominated by males. Throughout the years there have also been countless articles on how to make the hobby more attractive to females. I would definitely agree that there are more women gamers today than there were 30 years ago when I started.
That said, I don't think my guestimate of 1000:1 is too inaccurate. Perhaps its closer to 500:1? Sure in some areas it could maybe be even as low as 100:1, but unlikely any lower. But I stand by my 30 years of experience, the countless articles, and my numerous convention experiences including having gone to GenCon twice.
Anyways, back on topic... whether the m:f ration is 1000:1 or 10:1, I would still prefer to see a 2:1 ration of m:f minis.
Okay, ask yourself this. Why do you want to be less inclusive to women? Because that's what you're being by saying "We should have more male minis". I, personally, think it's bull that most gamers are male. We need more women gamers, and we're only going to do that by shedding the "Guy's club" image which, among other things, is strengthened by the ratio of male to female mini's and characters.
Actually, we should strive for true equality and have more minis of both genders.
Actually, we should strive for true equality and have more minis of both genders.
Well, yeah, that's the idea. I'm not saying we should skew it towards female minis. I just think we should treat female characters like they're a minority.
Here is one of the larger lady models I've found, although the head might need some work for most purposes.
She is wearing clothes, though.
But yes, to those who mentioned it, finding fat guys isn't much easier.
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The one in the middle would work well as a larger female Wizard or some such. Appologies for the two beside her, but I couldnt get one of her on her own
The nun here caould easily have a weapon conversion and a shield added if needed
The guy on the end could maybe work out
Opera singer as a bard or sorceress for someone after someone of larger build
This guy is large you'd have to admit.
And that's all I cound find so far. I'll keep looking though if folks want some more. Sadly under represented though. I suspect it's a niche market however. There is one with a barmaid as well, however she wouldn't easily conver to a character type unfortunately.
Cheers
Just an observation and probably mentioned before that many of the character classes I would like to see from reaper for pathfinder are female character based when I would prefer a male version of them as well. Since a majority of gamers are male who don't tend to play female characters, can we get a male paladin, cleric, etc to buy instead of the female version I won't be playing and won't need to buy?
That goes for the metal reaper as well as the new painted plastic minis.Thanks!
Reaper has about a trillion male variants of everything you are looking at, in exactly the same scale as the Pathfinder line. Some are available on this site, but they are ALL available on Reaper's site. Why not just choose one of those? It doesn't HAVE to say Pathfinder on it to use it in the game.
I think the assumption why you don't find many larger adventurers is because they are adventurers. I'm sure that even the wizards get a good work out trekking all over the place.
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Guesstimate: If the minis were made on the same ratio of male to female gamers, then the ratio would likely be about 1000:1
Do you really believe women comprise 1/10 of 1% of gamers?
My playgroup is ~71% female. My local brick and mortar is ~10% to 15% female. Your numbers are way off.
Your group is the exception. I have spent 30 years of reading countless articles talking about how the hobby is dominated by males. Throughout the years there have also been countless articles on how to make the hobby more attractive to females. I would definitely agree that there are more women gamers today than there were 30 years ago when I started.
That said, I don't think my guestimate of 1000:1 is too inaccurate. Perhaps its closer to 500:1? Sure in some areas it could maybe be even as low as 100:1, but unlikely any lower. But I stand by my 30 years of experience, the countless articles, and my numerous convention experiences including having gone to GenCon twice.
Anyways, back on topic... whether the m:f ration is 1000:1 or 10:1, I would still prefer to see a 2:1 ration of m:f minis.
And I have 32 years of experience, and your numbers are prehistoric. All my FLGS have female workers. The closest one is owned by a woman, and has been for 20 years now.
My game groups have all been at least 50% female since 2001. Of all of my friends and associates, the girls outnumber the guys for tabletop gaming by a small margin.
I realize that last part is unusual. However the notion that guys outnumber girls in tabletop RPGs by 500:1 is insane and is simply not justifiable by simple observation. That may be the number of Warhammer and Warhammer 40K males to females. I would accept that. (For various reasons, none of them good, WH40K remains a sausage fest.) The numbers are a bit better for Warmachine, and even better for Malifeaux and a few of the other Steampunk games. They're even better for Munchkin and related dice games.
How do I know?
Well, I run tables at Anime, Horror, Gaming and Sci-Fi conventions. You've been to GenCon twice? Hurrah! I do AT LEAST a convention a month. All over the country. My normal convention count for the year is usually around 15 - 20. I do paint commissions, sell some retail and I make terrains to sell. All of these conventions are packed with women and girls. Women account for 75% of my Munchkin and similar-games sales. They account for 50% of my Pathfinder Beginner Box sales. They account for roughly 40% of my Malifeaux sales and are more likely to ask about that game than their male counterparts. They account for 40% of my sales overall, including some terrains for 40K (so those girls are out there, too). At all of these conventions, every RPG table has at least one female, with two out of five being common.
Remember... I do this FOR A LIVING.
I would put the number of male to females for Pathfinder around 5:2 right now. In my circles it's actually 3:4, but whatever. 5:2 adjusts up to 500:200, a far cry from your outlandish numbers (no offense).