I've found a few items you should never buy.
- mithral buckler, buy a darkwood buckler: other stats are the same, but darkwood buckler is cheaper (1005 gp vs 203 gp). Darkwood buckler is made of wood, while mithral is a metal. This might come into play through some spells. Also, druids can use darkwood buckler.
- mithral chain shirt, buy a mithral shirt: other stats are the same, but mithral shirt weighs less (7.5 lbs vs 5 lbs)
Notice how these items are perfectly Pathfinder Society legal. What else is out there? Could you also mention if they're legal in the Society.
I've found a few items you should never buy.
- mithral buckler, buy a darkwood buckler: other stats are the same, but darkwood buckler is cheaper (1005 gp vs 203 gp). Darkwood buckler is made of wood, while mithral is a metal. This might come into play through some spells. Also, druids can use darkwood buckler.
- mithral chain shirt, buy a mithral shirt: other stats are the same, but mithral shirt weighs less (7.5 lbs vs 5 lbs)Notice how these items are perfectly Pathfinder Society legal. What else is out there? Could you also mention if they're legal in the Society.
Darkwood doesn't lower Arcane Spell failure, nice try though. In addition, Bucklers are made of metal so can't be darkwood.
Mithral Bucklers are great because they are cheapish, no arcane spell failure, and no check penalty.
Buckler description: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.
Darkwood: The armor check penalty of a darkwood shield is lessened by 2 compared to an ordinary shield of its type.
Does nothing, absolutely nothing for spell failure.
Mithral: Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).
Mithral Bucklers give +1 AC, weigh 2.5 pounds, ASF 0%, and ACP of 0.
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I've found a few items you should never buy.
- mithral buckler, buy a darkwood buckler: other stats are the same, but darkwood buckler is cheaper (1005 gp vs 203 gp). Darkwood buckler is made of wood, while mithral is a metal. This might come into play through some spells. Also, druids can use darkwood buckler.
What's the arcane spell failure chance on a darkwood buckler?
If you roll a 1 on a save against a fireball, which buckler is most likely to survive?- mithral chain shirt, buy a mithral shirt: other stats are the same, but mithral shirt weighs less (7.5 lbs vs 5 lbs)
Where did you get those numbers? The mithral shirt in the "specific armors" section of the Magic Items chapter of the CRB is 10lbs, while a mithral chain shirt (using rules from the Equipment chapter) is 12.5lbs.
Still a 2.5lb difference, but it makes me curious where you're getting your info.
Those are not trap items.The mithral buckler has 0% arcane spell failure chance wich makes it the best shield ever.
Those are not trap items.The mithral buckler has 0% arcane spell failure chance wich makes it the best shield ever.
... For arcane casters. Otherwise, meh.
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I've usually stayed away from the Darkwood Buckler (unless I can get the GM to rule one way or another, or if it doesn't matter to me; see below) on whether it's actually a buckler, or a light shield.
If you price up a Darkwood Light Shield, it costs 203 gp, just the same as the Darkwood Buckler. And not to mention the fact that in the description it says it's a "light wooden shield" leaves room for interpretation; i.e. like whether I want to wield my one-handed weapon in two hands for when I Power Attack.
So it's not an item I'd pick up in PFS for every character for this reason.
Also, the mithral shirt has no enhancement bonus listed. If you want a +1 or better enhancement bonus to your chain shirt armor, that 2.5 pound difference is worth it.
Bucklers are made of metal, you cannot make them of Darkwood.
I was referring to this Core Rulebook item: darkwood buckler.
Taking a closer look at it, the stats look like it has been derived from wooden light shield. Which would mean that it's not a buckler, and don't get the benefits of a buckler. Thanks for catching that.
Where did you get those numbers? The mithral shirt in the "specific armors" section of the Magic Items chapter of the CRB is 10lbs, while a mithral chain shirt (using rules from the Equipment chapter) is 12.5lbs.
I got them from my flaky memory. I remember the weight of small mithral shirt, and the 2.5 lbs difference. So, of course, the weights should be 12.5 lbs, and 10 lbs.
Also, the mithral shirt has no enhancement bonus listed. If you want a +1 or better enhancement bonus to your chain shirt armor, that 2.5 pound difference is worth it.
I didn't really get this. Enchanting your armor does absolutely nothing to its weight.
Also, the mithral shirt has no enhancement bonus listed. If you want a +1 or better enhancement bonus to your chain shirt armor, that 2.5 pound difference is worth it.I didn't really get this. Enchanting your armor does absolutely nothing to its weight.
I don't either. There is no information in Ultimate Equipment (basically my go-to source for this kind of stuff) about it adding weight.
I don't either. There is no information in Ultimate Equipment (basically my go-to source for this kind of stuff) about it adding weight.Also, the mithral shirt has no enhancement bonus listed. If you want a +1 or better enhancement bonus to your chain shirt armor, that 2.5 pound difference is worth it.I didn't really get this. Enchanting your armor does absolutely nothing to its weight.
The mithral shirt does not have an armor bonus, while the mithral chain shirt does, thus it is worth the extra weight.
Ring of Wizardry I seems overpriced compared to the equivalent number of Pearls of Power.
Yes, the ring works better, but not enough to justify the price increase.
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The mithral shirt does not have an armor bonus, while the mithral chain shirt does, thus it is worth the extra weight.
The mithral shirt has a +4 armour bonus. The special material armours tell you what kind of armour they are. Just like how Elven Chain tells you that it's chainmail a Mithril Shirt says:
This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 10%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, and no armor check penalty. It is considered light armor.
The Mirthal Shirt is a chain shirt made of mithral. It however weighs slightly less due to special construction efforts or the entry not getting updated from the OGL.
The OP is at least right in pointing out that if your going to just but some mithral light armour that you may as well grab the special shirt if you can find it rather then the normal chain shirt as they would have a similar price point. I doubt that the 2.5# should really shove it into a never buy category but they aren't wrong about it being vaguely better in at least one way.
About the mithral buckler: There is an archetype who allows to shield bash with your buckler. Would it count as silver when doing so? Would be another benefit of the mithral buckler.
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Lets try to stay on topic here:
Trap Items: Adamantine Arrows, Bullets, or Bolts.
Adamantine costs 60 gold per missile.
Adamantine weapon blanch costs 100g and coats 10 missiles and lasts until the ammo is fired. It even persists from PFS scenarios.
It's 600g to make 10 missiles out of Adamantine, but only 100g to blanch 10.
Now you might say "But the blanched ones don't bypass hardness" to which I have to say "Who cares?"
1st: Your GM will probably rule that for most uses, ammo, even adamantine ammo, is not suitable for breaking things like stone walls.
2nd: Even if it was, the ammo is destroyed, thus wasting the 60g. Having a regular adamantine weapon is insanely more efficient for this purpose.
Thus, the only real reason to have adamantine ammo is to bypass DR, and weapon blanch does that far cheaper.
EDIT: Silver blanch is also cheaper than silver arrows/bullets/bolts, but the total savings is nowhere near as impressive.
Cold Iron remains cheaper to buy normally instead of a blanch.
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Now you might say "But the blanched ones don't bypass hardness" to which I have to say "Who cares?"
To be fair, animated objects generally have hardness rather than DR. For instance, my wife's archer recently encountered an animated statue and had to just eat the hardness.
That said, I agree with your overall conclusion. You'll typically encounter a lot more DR/adamantine than hardness, at least among things you want to shoot.
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Yes, that is true about animated objects, but I have found that that's a VERY rare occurrence. Obviously, if your GM is atypical, you have to adjust accordingly, but in general, I think the weapon blanch is a safe bet for the vast majority of players.
Note that the blanch is only good for Ammo in terms of being cost effective since it coats 10 missiles.
Lets try to stay on topic here:
Trap Items: Adamantine Arrows, Bullets, or Bolts.
Adamantine costs 60 gold per missile.
Adamantine weapon blanch costs 100g and coats 10 missiles and lasts until the ammo is fired. It even persists from PFS scenarios.
It's 600g to make 10 missiles out of Adamantine, but only 100g to blanch 10.
Can't you recover and reuse Adamantine arrows, bullets and bolts? Whereas weapon blanch is one shot.
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Can't you recover and reuse Adamantine arrows, bullets and bolts? Whereas weapon blanch is one shot.Lets try to stay on topic here:
Trap Items: Adamantine Arrows, Bullets, or Bolts.
Adamantine costs 60 gold per missile.
Adamantine weapon blanch costs 100g and coats 10 missiles and lasts until the ammo is fired. It even persists from PFS scenarios.
It's 600g to make 10 missiles out of Adamantine, but only 100g to blanch 10.
No.
Ammunition made from special materials is destroyed when used, after the hit is resolved.
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Ring of Wizardry I seems overpriced compared to the equivalent number of Pearls of Power.
Yes, the ring works better, but not enough to justify the price increase.
Well don't forget it's a standard action to recall from the PoP, IIRC. That in and of itself can be a game breaker. OTOH, why not carry both? ;-)
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Can't you recover and reuse Adamantine arrows, bullets and bolts? Whereas weapon blanch is one shot.Lets try to stay on topic here:
Trap Items: Adamantine Arrows, Bullets, or Bolts.
Adamantine costs 60 gold per missile.
Adamantine weapon blanch costs 100g and coats 10 missiles and lasts until the ammo is fired. It even persists from PFS scenarios.
It's 600g to make 10 missiles out of Adamantine, but only 100g to blanch 10.
No.
Ammunition made from special materials is destroyed when used, after the hit is resolved.
Where is this ruling? Arrows and bolts have a 50% chance to be recovered (bullets are always expended). So, what you are telling me is an adamantine arrow, far stronger than a wooden one (literally 4x the hardness) is always destroyed or lost after being fired, but a wooden one is just fine? If I even tried to tell that to any of my players they would walk away from game from sheer logic error.
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Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), darts (for blowguns), or sling bullets (for slings and halfling sling staves). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading (as noted in their descriptions). Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
Masterwork ammunition is damaged (effectively destroyed) when used.
Magic Ammunition and Breakage: When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or is otherwise rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, or bullet that successfully hits a target is automatically destroyed after it delivers its damage.
Normal ammo is 50% recoverable on a miss, as is magical ammo. Masterwork ammo is destroyed on a miss for some reason (this encompasses special materials). ALL ammo is destroyed on a successful hit. (Note, this does not apply to firearm ammo, which is always destroyed, no matter what).
Regardless, the adamantine quality has no effect on whether or not ammo is recoverable. Ammo blanched with with adamantine has the same chance to be recovered on a miss as any other ammo.
Can't you recover and reuse Adamantine arrows, bullets and bolts? Whereas weapon blanch is one shot.
No.
Ammunition made from special materials is destroyed when used, after the hit is resolved.
That's why you need to fix them.. make whole does wonders
-James
Mending can repair a destroyed item as long as you have all the pieces.
If nothing else salvaging the adamantium arrow heads can offset the cost of replacement, or just sold for scrap.
How much is adamantium worth by weight?
Masterwork ammo is destroyed on a miss for some reason (this encompasses special materials).
Where is this stated?
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Where is this stated?Masterwork ammo is destroyed on a miss for some reason (this encompasses special materials).
Masterwork Weapons
A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.
You can't add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon (see the Craft skill). The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition). Adding the masterwork quality to a double weapon costs twice the normal increase (+600 gp).
Masterwork ammunition is damaged (effectively destroyed) when used. The enhancement bonus of masterwork ammunition does not stack with any enhancement bonus of the projectile weapon firing it.
All magic weapons are automatically considered to be of masterwork quality. The enhancement bonus granted by the masterwork quality doesn't stack with the enhancement bonus provided by the weapon's magic.
Even though some types of armor and shields can be used as weapons, you can't create a masterwork version of such an item that confers an enhancement bonus on attack rolls. Instead, masterwork armor and shields have lessened armor check penalties.
By inference. All special material items are masterwork.
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Because I find it unlikely that you will be able to recover every single tiny bit of your fractured arrow.
Mending and Make Whole in my opinion weren't designed with this purpose in mind.
Regardless, I doubt that you will find someone willing to repair your arrows for you, and it's unlikely that the classes using them will have the spell.
If someone came up to my wizard wanting me to spend HOURS fixing the 20 or so arrows he fired in a combat, I'd politely tell his cheap *** to go buy some new ones and bother me when he had an important problem that needs dealing with.
Personally, I prefer to craft my own adamantine durable arrows for ~21g each, and then just use them over and over.
Personally, I prefer to craft my own adamantine durable arrows for ~21g each, and then just use them over and over.
The days you'd spend making them would be bad enough.
Because I find it unlikely that you will be able to recover every single tiny bit of your fractured arrow.
The arrow is damaged beyond use, that could be as simple as a cracked shaft. It doesn't explode sending pieces everywhere.
Do you rule similarly when the Fighter's sword is sundered? He can't repair it because he's missing a few flecks of steel.
Regardless, I doubt that you will find someone willing to repair your arrows for you, and it's unlikely that the classes using them will have the spell.
If someone came up to my wizard wanting me to spend HOURS fixing the 20 or so arrows he fired in a combat, I'd politely tell his cheap *** to go buy some new ones and bother me when he had an important problem that needs dealing with.
So, if asked, your Wizard would spend days and thousands of gp crafting new magic arrows for his party (assuming he crafts), but not hours to repair them at no cost?
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Because I find it unlikely that you will be able to recover every single tiny bit of your fractured arrow.
The arrow is damaged beyond use, that could be as simple as a cracked shaft. It doesn't explode sending pieces everywhere.
Do you rule similarly when the Fighter's sword is sundered? He can't repair it because he's missing a few flecks of steel.
I simply get the impression from reading the rules that destroyed ammo isn't meant to be recoverable. Obviously that's speculation, but given all the rules about ammo recovering, it makes sense enough for me.
So, if asked, your Wizard would spend days and thousands of gp crafting new magic arrows for his party (assuming he crafts), but not hours to repair them at no cost?Regardless, I doubt that you will find someone willing to repair your arrows for you, and it's unlikely that the classes using them will have the spell.
If someone came up to my wizard wanting me to spend HOURS fixing the 20 or so arrows he fired in a combat, I'd politely tell his cheap *** to go buy some new ones and bother me when he had an important problem that needs dealing with.
Well, 1st I'd ask why you are enchanting arrows instead of the weapon. I've always found enchanting ammo to be a waste (and for that reason would probably not craft them unless paid a premium for my time) and repairing the ammo would take 10 minutes and a second level spell per missile.
In my opinion, not worth my spell slots and my time. The whole purpose of ammo is to be disposable. It's why I've always hated the special materials rules for ammo because it's so freaking expensive and why I love the weapon blanch rules because it's cheap enough to not have to worry about it.
Well according to Ashiel's thread, Speed weapons are a trap. Just use the money on several pairs of Boots of Speed instead.
Depending on who you ask, speed could be good for a two-weapon fighter.
Some say that the not stacking thing is only limited per weapon. That is, you can't make a haste attack and a speed attack with the same weapon, but you can make a haste attack with one weapon, then get yet another attack from an off-hand speed weapon.
I am not one of those people.
Don't buy an Iron Horn (or any other horn) of Valhalla. It's a neat and flavorful item to have, sure, but it's a poor item to pay for because it costs about 25 times as much as the spell effect it is based on suggests that it should.
It's basically a summon VI effect with a class limitation to use it. The suggested price of an daily use limited item is spell level (6) x caster level (13) x 750 gp = 58500, minus 30% for being class-limited = 40,950. Then for a limited uses item you divide the price by (5 / number of daily charges). The Horn's effective number of daily charges is 1/7 of a charge, so divide by 5/(1/7) = divide by 35 = 1,170 gp. Then multiply by two for slotlessness and your final total is 2,340 gp.
Now obviously a little bit of fudging is needed for this price, since there is a nonstandard duration, and since very rarely usable items need at least some fudge factor so that munchkins don't go around crafting rings of wish 1/decade or something. However, the Horn's actual price is 50,000 gp. That's a hell of a lot of fudging!