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I participate in Society play. I made a Elven Zen Archer, but kept getting overrun by attackers because our parties were minimal (no cover and no barbarian or burning hand ally to cut things short). So, I then took two levels in Treesinger so I could stand behind something. Now I'm beginning to look ahead, level-wise, to where I could grow. Then I saw Swinging Reposition and thought that must be the most useless class ability ever for Society play-- Therefore, I must try to make it work! So here's my build:
4Lvls Zen Archer (Monk) [ZA], 6Lvls Treesinger (Druid)[TS], 2Lvls Pirate (Rogue)[Pi]
Lvl _ _Class _ _Stuff _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _Level Feats
1_ _ _1st ZA__Bonus feat (Point-blank shot), perfect shot___________Precise shot
2_ _ _1st TS__Plant bond, nature sense, orisons, green empathy
3_ _ _2nd TS__Woodland stride_______________________________Power Attack
4_ _ _3rd TS__Trackless step
5_ _ _4th TS __Resist nature's lure, wild shape (1/day)_____________Improved Bull Rush
6_ _ _2nd ZA__Bonus feat (Dodge), evasion
7_ _ _3rd ZA__Fast movement, zen archery, point-blank Master______Greater Bull rush
8_ _ _1st Pi___Sneak attack +1d6, Sea Legs
9_ _ _2nd Pi__Evasion, Swinging Reposition_____________________Lunge
10_ _4th ZA__Ki pool (magic), slow fall 20 ft.
11_ _5th TS__Wild shape (2/day)_____________________________Dragon Style
12_ _6th TS
Here's the description of Swinging Reposition:
Now let me see if these combos work. The following lists scenarios I'd like to determine whether they're Society compatible:
(a) The elf charges (10') up next to her large treeant companion. It has a knotted rope dangling from its branch. She grabs it swings in (i.e. uses lunge) and either kicks the opponent doing damage (Dragon style) or knocks him back (G. bull rush), swings back and lands 5' behind where the rope swing was initially dangling. Do the mechanics work out? And if so, what's the DC of the Acrobatics check?
(b) Am I correct in assuming that the rope doesn't even have to start in her hand, but that she could not be using a two-handed weapon during here charge/bull rush?
(c) What is the DC for the player who tries this and doesn't have Swinging Reposition?
Other questions that popped up (but wouldn't stop this build) are as follows:
(d) Does hydraulic Push combo with the Bull Rush feat tree?
(e) Does Summon Nature's Ally allow for plant versions (say, maybe, one of the four listed plant companions)?
(f) Does the race trait “open hand, open mind” require that the character be of human ethnicity (since its from the Humans of Golarion Companion, but doesn't list it as a prerequisite nor is it a selectable option on hero builder)?
(f) The Treesinger casts Greater Animal Aspect (Ape/Monkey) on the treeant who then tries to pick up a kobold. Can he succeed with branches for... well, limbs? and, if so, then how far will it be able to throw it and with what mods/target? What if the treeant is just going for distance and couldn't care less about accuracy. Am I right to assume that the thrower must be two size increments larger than the thrown object?
That's a lot. I'm looking forward to determining whether or not this girl gets to play on her swing set or just go home and let somebody else adventure, say a rope trick specialist. :)
Thanks for your council,
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Is there a reason you're not interested in Boon Companion for your tree?
It was a hard call since Dragon Style makes it so that she can get to the tree to swing and could even swing over friendlies. All the other feats are needed just to get to the level where she can swing on her accursed mobile playground.
More on scenario (a) Imagine Evånjölyn runs to the gates to defend her beloved carnivorous flower from being attacked by a puffball and a creeping vine. She runs up behind her prized flower, swings over it and kicks the vine, then lands next to the tree sapling treeant. See picture of "Trouble in Evånjölyn's garden" for more clarity.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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My first thought is that you're worried about getting around the battlefield at 11th level. Your wizard ally has been casting teleport for two or three levels now. The rogue has advanced talents that let her move just about anywhere she wants. You're swinging on vines so that, the next round, you can shoot the foe with two d8+4 arrows as a full-round action. Or you'll be casting 3rd-level druid spells.
Your treant is going to get mulched by a decent CR 12 foe.
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None of that is to discourage you from building a fun concept. I know one guy who decided to never take two levels in the same class. It was a halfling who sucked at everything, but he was fun. The player had a good time.
I suspect that you'll have a good time, too, but somewhere around 5th or 6th level, you'll be the weakest member of the party. That'll only get worse as you progress.
Play down a lot. Play with lower-level PCs, a lot. Have a lot of fun. Avoid Season 4 scenarios and convention specials.
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To answer some of your questions:
(a) I don't see how she's getting back to her original position. The feat allows her to adjust her position 5' from the place she made her bull rush or kicked the opponent.
Also, Greater Bull Rush requires a BAB of 6. At Level 7, your character's BAB is 5. (Two from Monk, 3 from Druid.)
(d) No.
(e) No, unless Treesinger explicitly changes the list.
(the first f) It's a race trait. At my table, your PC would need to be human.
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My first thought is that you're worried about getting around the battlefield at 11th level. Your wizard ally has been casting teleport for two or three levels now. The rogue has advanced talents that let her move just about anywhere she wants. You're swinging on vines so that, the next round, you can shoot the foe with two d8+4 arrows as a full-round action. Or you'll be casting 3rd-level druid spells.
Your treant is going to get mulched by a decent CR 12 foe.
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None of that is to discourage you from building a fun concept. I know one guy who decided to never take two levels in the same class. It was a halfling who sucked at everything, but he was fun. The player had a good time.
I suspect that you'll have a good time, too, but somewhere around 5th or 6th level, you'll be the weakest member of the party. That'll only get worse as you progress.
Play down a lot. Play with lower-level PCs, a lot. Have a lot of fun. Avoid Season 4 scenarios and convention specials.
Thanks. Good advice
(a) I don't see how she's getting back to her original position. The feat allows her to adjust her position 5' from the place she made her bull rush or kicked the opponent.
Let me describe it another way. Picture five squares in a row, square 1 has the baddie and square 5 has the hero. Hero charges. She is in square 3. With lunge she can reach to square 1 past an ally in square 2 (via Dragon style). And after the attack, she steps back to square 4 (via swinging reposition). She never gets all the way back. That's just conservation of energy.
Also, Greater Bull Rush requires a BAB of 6. At Level 7, your character's BAB is 5. (Two from Monk, 3 from Druid.)
Good catch, thanks. I'll take Dragon Style at 3rd and shift the feat stack down. Either that or use Boon Companion, as Mergy Suggested.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Actually, Æthernaut, I took another look at the rules, and I think I have to reverse my position. Let me explain why.
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets one creature or object
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
You call forth a quick blast of water that knocks over and soaks one creature or square. You can use this blast of water to make a bull rush against any one creature or object. Your CMB for this bull rush is equal to your caster level plus your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier, whichever is highest. This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Hydraulic push extinguishes any normal fires on a creature, object, or in a single 5-foot square which it is targeted against. Magical fires are unaffected.
Bull Rush
You can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack. You can only bull rush an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. A bull rush attempts to push an opponent straight back without doing any harm. If you do not have the Improved Bull Rush feat, or a similar ability, initiating a bull rush provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
If your attack is successful, your target is pushed back 5 feet. For every 5 by which your attack exceeds your opponent's CMD you can push the target back an additional 5 feet. You can move with the target if you wish but you must have the available movement to do so. If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target.
An enemy being moved by a bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity because of the movement unless you possess the Greater Bull Rush feat. You cannot bull rush a creature into a square that is occupied by a solid object or obstacle. If there is another creature in the way of your bull rush, you must immediately make a combat maneuver check to bull rush that creature. ....
Prerequisite: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing a bull rush combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to bull rush a foe. You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to bull rush you.
Prerequisites: Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6, Str 13.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to bull rush a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Bull Rush. Whenever you bull rush an opponent, his movement provokes attacks of opportunity from all of your allies (but not you).
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The wording on the rules is pretty unusual here: when using a hydraulic push, the caster can make a bull rush maneuver on the target. The spell doesn't "act like" a bull rush, or "push the target back", which is the more usual wording. (For example, a grease spell doesn't allow the caster to make a trip maneuver. Burning disarm doesn't let the caster make a disarm maneuver. Entangle doesn't let the caster make a grapple maneuver against all the targts in the area.) In this case, the caster is making the maneuver attack.
So Improved Bull Rush should give the caster a +2 bonus to the maneuver, and the benefits of Greater Bull Rush should also apply.
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So Improved Bull Rush should give the caster a +2 bonus to the maneuver, and the benefits of Greater Bull Rush should also apply.
That's awesome! I'm making a character that is chasing style over substance. But if the game mechanics should work too, then my character is less useless in Society Play.
Here's another question that I forgot to add:
(H) Can the character be both a Plains Druid and a Treesinger at the same time?
If so, then at 9th level I'll be able to swing around the tree 90 degrees via Canny Charger. (Not that it acually matters since I've already taken two levels in druid. This is just in case I retire the character from society play and continue to level it.)