There's something that's puzzling me about Sorcerers.
You get additional spells you can cast per day via Charisma on top of what you get via class. And, you only know a certain amount of spells per spell level. I get that.
BUT
What about 0 level spells? I know the book says you know 4 0 level spells at 1st level... What's the spells per day for a 3rd level sorcerer, specifically 0 level spells? The book says said character would know 5 zero level spells, but it DOES NOT state you can cast them as often as you wish, like a wizard would.
The book states "She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level." But now many spells per day for 0 level spells?
|
Actually it does state you can cast them again after already casting them as they don't take up any slots.
Cantrips: Sorcerers learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
But, does that mean a sorcerer can cast all of her known 0 level spells as often as she likes per day? It wasn't exactly spelled out. I know the limits for 1st-9th level spells just fine.
So, in the case of sorcerers, the number of 0 level spells known is essentially meaning that you can cast each as many times as you want?
Okay.
Does anyone know of a feat or something aside from Permanency that can grant more 0 level spells to Wizards and Sorcerers? I recall a really silly option in the APG that stated you could put your favored class benefit into getting more spells known for Sorcerers, but that's kinda overpowered to get an additional spell on top of all others upon level up.
The reason I ask is that I have noted that no attribute bonus applies to getting more 0 level spells per day, unlike 1-9th level.
There was a feat in the old 3.5 Forgotten Realms books that gave you an additional 3 0 level spells per day, but that was back when you couldn't cast them infinitely many times each day.
The Two World Magic Trait lets you add a 0 level spell from another class spell list to your class spell list (but you still need to learn the spell from your list in order to use it).
WIZARDS:
Wizards already know every 0-level spell on their list (but can only prepare a few). I think the extra spell slots from having an specialist school applies to cantrips.
SORCERERS:
When gaining a level in a favoured class you would normally get a HP or skill rank.
A human with sorcerer as their favoured class can instead learn a spell of any level below their max spell level.
Sorcerer
Note that this option does not give any spells per day, only spells known. (However, I guess if you pick a cantrip, you get 'another infinity cantrips', but I'm not sure you need so many, since Sorcerers eventually learn nine cantrips anyway.)
Minor rules nitpick:
Only classes with the "Cantrips" or "Orisons" class feature don't expend their spell slots for 0-level spells. Granted, all of the regular classes have one of those features, but the poor Adept is not so lucky.
The favoured class bonus is amazing, and an excellent way to get more cantrips.
If you really want more, you can take the feat Extra Cantrips or Orisons from Ultimate Magic, which gives you 2 additional cantrips known.
WIZARDS:
Wizards already know every 0-level spell on their list (but can only prepare a few). I think the extra spell slots from having an specialist school applies to cantrips.
Does anybody out there know this for sure? I did read once that the ban on the two schools still counts for 0 level magic, so if you selected Divination as one of them, you'd have to blow TWO slots for Detect Magic. Not sure if this is official, though.
That's not quite what I meant.
If I select Divination as one of my opposed schools, do I need to blow two 0 level slots on Detect Magic?
Do specialist wizards get an extra 0 level slot for their school?
Seems I made two mistakes about Wizards:
I forgot they don't automatically know cantrips for opposition schools, and
"specialist wizards receive an additional spell slot of each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up", so no bonus cantrips.
Regarding Piccolo's question:
"A wizard who prepares spells from his opposition schools must use two spell slots of that level to prepare the spell." I see no reason this should not apply to cantrips, although you typically won't actually know those cantrips so it might not come up.
All wizards can PREPARE Read Magic from memory, but that doesn't mean it doesn't occupy one of their cantrip slots; it just means they can prepare it without a spellbook. It's just a contingency to help them in case they lose their spellbook and have to build a new one. A wizard can't read scrolls or other spellbooks to copy from without Read Magic, so they make darn sure to know that be able to prepare Read Magic without a spellbook so, if the worse comes to worse, they can start anew.
If I select Divination as one of my opposed schools, do I need to blow two 0 level slots on Detect Magic?
Yes.
A wizard can't read scrolls or other spellbooks to copy from without Read Magic...
Not having Read Magic available means you need to make a Spellcraft check of DC 20 + Spell Level to decipher somebody else's spell.
Auto-pass for high level Wizards, far from a sure thing for low level Wizards.You still need to make a DC 15 + Spell Level check whether you use Read Magic or not,
both for scribing a new entry in a spellbook or using somebody else's spellbook to prepare a spell.
That is also not a sure thing for low level Wizards, although not every GM enforces that after 'spell shopping'.
That is also not a sure thing for low level Wizards, although not every GM enforces that after 'spell shopping'.
To be fair, if it's a "college of wizards" situation, and it happens in downtime, there's no reason the character can't "shop around" till he finds someone whose notes are easy to read.
Why no bonus cantrips if you are a specialist? Seems to me that if one must adhere to the bit about using up 2 slots for one opposition school spell, then the bonus spell thing should apply as well.
I dunno, I always thought of Detect Magic as one of those "universal" spells that all spellcasters get. Could it really be consider opposition?
Does anyone know of a feat or something aside from Permanency that can grant more 0 level spells to Wizards and Sorcerers? I recall a really silly option in the APG that stated you could put your favored class benefit into getting more spells known for Sorcerers, but that's kinda overpowered to get an additional spell on top of all others upon level up.
Extra Cantrips or Orisons
You are a master of minor spells.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast cantrips or orisons.
Benefit: Add two cantrips to your cantrips known or two orisons to your orisons known.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, add two cantrips or orisons to your spells known.
Feat from Ultimate Magic
for a Sorcerer, the Feat Expanded Arcana (from APG) would also work, add 1 or 2 spells known to your Known list....
Add one spell from your class's spell list to your list of spells known. This is in addition to the number of spells normally gained at each new level in your class. You may instead add two spells from your class's spell list to your list of spells known, but both of these spells must be at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast in that class.
This "Extra Cantrips/Orisons" feat, how would that apply to a Wizard or Cleric, who already know these spells, they just have limited slots for 0 level?
Yeah, but especially in the lower levels, Sorcerers have so many weaknesses that it's better to use feats to plug them. Like Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Toughness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration (SR is a nasty one to pierce), Combat Casting. That's 9 feats, right off the top of my head. That's not even counting the various metamagic feats.
This "Extra Cantrips/Orisons" feat, how would that apply to a Wizard or Cleric, who already know these spells, they just have limited slots for 0 level?
A wizard would get to scribe them into their spellbook. Waste of a feat.
A cleric would get no benefit at all. REAL waste of a feat.
Depends on whether they start with ALL 0-Level Spells or just the Core Rulebook's 0-Level Spells.
Well, if the feat granted 2 extra 0 level spells per day, THEN it would be really useful for a Wizard, since they don't get much 0 level spells compared to a Sorcerer.