What is FaWtl?
Forums Are Way Too Long
What is FaWtl?
What Tels said. The original thread it came from was some guy complaining about how long the threads would get, and it became a goal for certain individuals to see how long they could make the thread. These days, it is more or less the Paizo boards chat room.
What is FaWtl?
It's FAWTLbulous, is what it is.
Indeed. The phrase 'Your milage may vary' is an idiom, not a meme.It's both, isn't it?No, it's not.
It's an idiom.
Idioms are memes, just as ideas and words are. They're part of a (linguistic) culture. You learn them from other people just as you learn ideas from other people.
There is a difference between Power Gamers and Munchkins.
Power Gamers want powerful characters that can dominate the game, and will build characters that can do that. It does not, however, mean they can't role play. They just do not EVER to have to play ineffective characters.
Munchkins are Power Gamers who want powerful characters no matter what. Rules exploits, loopholes, broken combos...whatever tricks they have to pull, they will in order to be the biggest, baddest, best, regardless of cost to campaign or other characters.
It's like they're compensating for something.
Munchkins can grow up, but they're like the little kids of RPG's, always wondering why they can't have something more then everyone else. They can get better over time, but you have to teach them. Munchkinism is a disease you don't want spreading at your table.
==Aelryinth
Also there is an aspect of "Munchkin" that means having no qualms with, or even actively working to sabotage your own team if it means you gaining something from it. While a powergamer might inconvenience their own team (e.g. forcing the encounters to be harder than they should) they will probably not steal items from team mates, or hide information about traps from their team or something like that.
While technically or linguistically it could be argued that YMMV is only an idiom, on these forums for practical purposes it is a meme.
Wizards are too powerful! YMMV
Rogues suck! YMMV
Paladins would be much cooler if they weren't restricted by alignment! YMMV
Fighters are not diverse enough! YMMV
Crafting breaks the game and destroys campaigns! YMMV
The gm is god. YMMV
E6 is far more awesome than having to run a game with a party that's level 15! YMMV
Catgirls destroy a campaign's sense of immersion! YMMV
Powergaming is awesome and makes the campaign awesome and means you're being the best you can be!
Munchkining is horrible and makes the campaign horrible and means you're... being the best you can.... be?....
No it means you're a cheating campaign ruining sack of sh[redacted]!
YMMV!
You forgot:
Your mileage my vary! Response: No, because YMMV!
While technically or linguistically it could be argued that YMMV is only an idiom, on these forums for practical purposes it is a meme.
I would be very interested to know what you think the word "meme" means.
Dawkins defined it as "a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation. [...] Examples of memes are tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or of building arches. Just as genes propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body to body via sperms or eggs, so memes propagate themselves in the meme pool by leaping from brain to brain via a process which, in the broad sense, can be called imitation. If a scientist hears, or reads about, a good idea, he passed it on to his colleagues and students. He mentions it in his articles and his lectures. If the idea catches on, it can be said to propagate itself, spreading from brain to brain." (Dawkins, 1976, The Selfish Gene, Ch. 11, "Memes: The New Replicators")
An idiom is exactly such a catch phrase, transmitted from speaker to hearer and imitated by the hearer. Any idiom is a meme.
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An idiom is exactly such a catch phrase, transmitted from speaker to hearer and imitated by the hearer. Any idiom is a meme.
This is my thinking as well, but our dear friend Krensky disagrees. Passionately. To the point of proscribing violence in defense of his opinion.
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rawr.
While technically or linguistically it could be argued that YMMV is only an idiom, on these forums for practical purposes it is a meme.
I would be very interested to know what you think the word "meme" means.
Dawkins defined it as "a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation. [...] Examples of memes are tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or of building arches. Just as genes propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body to body via sperms or eggs, so memes propagate themselves in the meme pool by leaping from brain to brain via a process which, in the broad sense, can be called imitation. If a scientist hears, or reads about, a good idea, he passed it on to his colleagues and students. He mentions it in his articles and his lectures. If the idea catches on, it can be said to propagate itself, spreading from brain to brain." (Dawkins, 1976, The Selfish Gene, Ch. 11, "Memes: The New Replicators")
An idiom is exactly such a catch phrase, transmitted from speaker to hearer and imitated by the hearer. Any idiom is a meme.
I agree. The way I understand a meme to be, every idiom is a meme or else you'd use some other combination of words instead. I wouldn't have made YMMV part of my gaming vocabulary if I hadn't experienced its usage here on the forums hundereds of times over... For me, that's plenty good enough for meme status.
Perhaps you should attempt to explain yourself rather than insinuating that we're all stupid.
I weep for the state of English education. Idioms are not catch phrases. You should all find your high school English teachers and demand your money back.
And whence do you suppose idioms arise? Is this a case of special creation: God points his finger, and an idiom is born? I'd wager that most of them start off as pithy metaphors which then become stock catch-phrases as they're repeated, and ultimately end up in the language as a sort of junk DNA.
I've always thought that idioms actually are ways of preserving bits of wisdom, a repeated phrase that has worth, while a meme has no real worth other than the humor it conveys over it's short life.
ie
Idiom: "A penny saved is a penny earned."
Meme: "Imma firin' mah LAZOR!!!"
You're thinking of Internet meme as opposed to the scientific term from whence the name came.
Isn't that what we're talking about?
Internet memes?
Nope. I linked Wikipedia up thread.
I've always thought that idioms actually are ways of preserving bits of wisdom, a repeated phrase that has worth, while a meme has no real worth other than the humor it conveys over it's short life.
No. Dawkins pointed out that that many memes are in fact valuable, and selected for precisely because of that value. The meme "don't drink the water," for example, has saved many a traveller from intestinal discomfort in the third world.
Even "Internet memes" can be ways of preserving bits of wisdom. The semi-stock opening of the 419 scam letter, for example, has been parodied on the Internet countless times, but also helps preserve the idea that THIS IS A SCAM, a very useful bit of wisdom that I wish more people would pay attention to. Other memes are useful political tools and key aspects of consciousness raising.
The Internet is merely a distribution channel; there are actually almost no memes that are Internet-only. Anything worth emailing is also worth telling people about, which is why many people first hear about Internet memes in conversation.
Conversely, relatively few idioms actually preserve anything useful. Most idioms are simply metaphors or other non-literal uses of language; if I say (or write) that "I got all Oliver last night, so when I got home, I was really in the soup with my trouble and spent the night in the doghouse" I've used (at least) three idioms and possibly four:
* Oliver (cockney rhyming slang for drunk)
* in the soup (general English idiom for in trouble)
* trouble (cockney rhyming slang for wife)
* in the doghouse (unless I literally spent the night in a shed built for a pet dog)
Almost any slang, for example, is idiomatic. It serves a social function. Normally, it's a marker of group identity; if I speak cockney rhyming slang, for example, you know that I'm an annoying berk and a right royal Shania (which is also c.r.s.). Calling a marijuana cigarette a roach, a joint, or a reefer are three different markers for three different groups; using the wrong word is likely to get you quickly spotted as a nark (q.v.) But those are hardly bits of wisdom worth preserving
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Must not go off on rant about people using dumb internet slang ... Must not go off on rant about people using dumb internet slang ... Must not go off on rant about people using dumb internet slang ...MNGOORAPUDIS
I think this might actually be onomatopeia for something with a similar meaning. Try saying it out loud a couple of times.
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I've always thought that idioms actually are ways of preserving bits of wisdom, a repeated phrase that has worth, while a meme has no real worth other than the humor it conveys over it's short life.No. Dawkins pointed out that that many memes are in fact valuable, and selected for precisely because of that value. The meme "don't drink the water," for example, has saved many a traveller from intestinal discomfort in the third world.
Even "Internet memes" can be ways of preserving bits of wisdom. The semi-stock opening of the 419 scam letter, for example, has been parodied on the Internet countless times, but also helps preserve the idea that THIS IS A SCAM, a very useful bit of wisdom that I wish more people would pay attention to. Other memes are useful political tools and key aspects of consciousness raising.
The Internet is merely a distribution channel; there are actually almost no memes that are Internet-only. Anything worth emailing is also worth telling people about, which is why many people first hear about Internet memes in conversation.
Conversely, relatively few idioms actually preserve anything useful. Most idioms are simply metaphors or other non-literal uses of language; if I say (or write) that "I got all Oliver last night, so when I got home, I was really in the soup with my trouble and spent the night in the doghouse" I've used (at least) three idioms and possibly four:
* Oliver (cockney rhyming slang for drunk)
* in the soup (general English idiom for in trouble)
* trouble (cockney rhyming slang for wife)
* in the doghouse (unless I literally spent the night in a shed built for a pet dog)Almost any slang, for example, is idiomatic. It serves a social function. Normally, it's a marker of group identity; if I speak cockney rhyming slang, for example, you know that I'm an annoying berk and a right royal Shania (which is also c.r.s.). Calling a marijuana cigarette a roach, a joint, or a reefer are three different markers for...
For those that are interested:
Oliver = Oliver Twist = PissedTrouble = Trouble & Strife = Wife
Shania = Shania Twain = Pain
I am anglo-welsh but have never heard 'in the soup' before. 'In the shit' on the other hand...
For those that are interested:Oliver = Oliver Twist = Pissed
Trouble = Trouble & Strife = Wife
Shania = Shania Twain = Pain
I am anglo-welsh but have never heard 'in the soup' before. 'In the s#+!' on the other hand...
And for completists, Berk = Berkeley Hunt, and you can probably figure out what it rhymes with. I should also add that "pissed" means "drunk" in the UK, but "angry" in the USA, a confusion that has troubled a number of bi-continental visitors.
"In the soup" is somewhat old-fashioned nowadays (as, frankly, is most cockney rhyming slang). You see it a lot in P.G. Wodehouse and his generation, though.
A troll thread is a messageboard thread created specifically to rile people up and get a reaction. The same idea as a troll post, except it's the original post of the thread. Some people also use this term to refer to an ordinary thread that has been overrun or hijacked by one or more trolls.
I'm not sure about @-@ - It's pretty clearly Emoji/Ascii-art/emoticon artwork, but I'm not sure what it is supposed to convey.
As I understand it @_@ means dazzled or dazed , I use it with this avatar quite a bit
RaP;BC,p
The Stormwind Fallacy is the assertion that roleplaying and character optimization are opposites: that an optimized character has less uniqueness or personality and that a player of such a character is clearly more interested in 'winning' than telling a collaborative story. And that conversely, a sub-optimal character must be more interesting.
It is presented as a fallacy because those things are not opposites: it is possible to have an optimized character who has a personality, and it is possible to have a sub-optimal character who is just dreadfully boring to play. And clearly, taking the more powerful of two character options does not mean you did so purely because it is more powerful.
It has a name because it is a common assertion in debates about 'munchkins' or 'power gamers' because optimized characters (especially pre-made builds) attract a certain type of player that isn't really interested in roleplaying, which can create the erroneous impression that every player of such a character has the same motivations.
What is a 'Stormwind(?) Fallacy'? (?)I think thats right(?)
That is the one that says it is false to assume that just because someone powergames that they do not roleplay, and vise vera. Optimisation and roleplaying are not mutually exclusive and it is false to assume they are
It has a name because it is a common assertion in debates about 'munchkins' or 'power gamers' because optimized characters (especially pre-made builds) attract a certain type of player that isn't really interested in roleplaying, which can create the erroneous impression that every player of such a character has the same motivations.
In my experience it is more often invoked by people with no system mastery to justify their lack of it. Moreover, people are actually PROUD of absolutely useless lumps of flesh they create because of the "character" they perceive themselves to have imbued such characters with.
As I understand it @_@ means dazzled or dazed , I use it with this avatar quite a bit
From looking at it, I would have guessed it's a 'roll-eyes' emoticon. Something to say: "Oh really? Izzat so?"
Not to argue, that's just the impression I got from it.
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It has a name because it is a common assertion in debates about 'munchkins' or 'power gamers' because optimized characters (especially pre-made builds) attract a certain type of player that isn't really interested in roleplaying, which can create the erroneous impression that every player of such a character has the same motivations.In my experience it is more often invoked by people with no system mastery to justify their lack of it. Moreover, people are actually PROUD of absolutely useless lumps of flesh they create because of the "character" they perceive themselves to have imbued such characters with.
I think some people just think that your character needs to get into scrapes, nearly die and generally have hi-jinks and lucky escapes to be interesting.
Those people perceive optimisation as 'playing safe' and assume that such characters will also be 'safe' and 'boring'.
RPGs are such a diverse hobby that it might well represent the actual experience of many players.
From looking at it, I would have guessed it's a 'roll-eyes' emoticon. Something to say: "Oh really? Izzat so?"
Not to argue, that's just the impression I got from it.
Really you don't want to argue over pointless minutia, What else could you possibly be doing on these boards. 8>)
Moreover, people are actually PROUD of absolutely useless lumps of flesh they create because of the "character" they perceive themselves to have imbued such characters with.
Hey, I resemble that remark!
Sometimes failure is fun.
Really you don't want to argue over pointless minutia, What else could you possibly be doing on these boards. 8>)From looking at it, I would have guessed it's a 'roll-eyes' emoticon. Something to say: "Oh really? Izzat so?"
Not to argue, that's just the impression I got from it.
That's an easy one. Amusing myself, while waiting for something to happen in my pbp.
'Rock Falls'?
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I guess you can call it a pet peeve of mine, just like I hate when people say "your" when they mean "you're" or "you are," this is not a "legally binding document" AD, just proper grammar is closer to how I view it. Yes, people should just have fun and play their characters however they want, but try to refer to things in the correct manner is all.
Probably already addressed, but how, exactly, can you tell how someone is using "your/you're" in speech? They're homonyms. They sound exactly the same in most accents when verbalized.
I guess you can call it a pet peeve of mine, just like I hate when people say "your" when they mean "you're" or "you are," this is not a "legally binding document" AD, just proper grammar is closer to how I view it. Yes, people should just have fun and play their characters however they want, but try to refer to things in the correct manner is all.
Probably already addressed, but how, exactly, can you tell how someone is using "your/you're" in speech? They're homonyms. They sound exactly the same in most accents when verbalized.
Not been my experience, but regardless I think the OP means "type" when they said "say".
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Not been my experience, but regardless I think the OP means "type" when they said "say".I guess you can call it a pet peeve of mine, just like I hate when people say "your" when they mean "you're" or "you are," this is not a "legally binding document" AD, just proper grammar is closer to how I view it. Yes, people should just have fun and play their characters however they want, but try to refer to things in the correct manner is all.
Probably already addressed, but how, exactly, can you tell how someone is using "your/you're" in speech? They're homonyms. They sound exactly the same in most accents when verbalized.
You used to be fun. ;-)
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You used to be fun. ;-)Not been my experience, but regardless I think the OP means "type" when they said "say".I guess you can call it a pet peeve of mine, just like I hate when people say "your" when they mean "you're" or "you are," this is not a "legally binding document" AD, just proper grammar is closer to how I view it. Yes, people should just have fun and play their characters however they want, but try to refer to things in the correct manner is all.
Probably already addressed, but how, exactly, can you tell how someone is using "your/you're" in speech? They're homonyms. They sound exactly the same in most accents when verbalized.
If you Texans would figure out hayow to use diphthongs correctly, you could relate it to each other verbally.