Yes, that was what I meant. Sorry for any confusion, Gluttony.
As for my question being 'dumb' based on the grounds you've given:...I think you mis-read that, Gluttony. Eric was probably just saying his own question was dumb (which it wasn't).
:)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I see how I could've misread that, now. ^_^
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I find it a bit funny that in a reference thread for one of the more unique adventures wev'e seen in an AP in quite a while now, there are about 3 pages of discussion about a single magic item.
Anyway, I think the CR 6 dragon in the clocktower is a bit underwhelming as what I think is intended as a boss fight, and I'm thinking of upping the difficulty a bit. Any ideas on what is the smart way to do so? just making it older will increase the CR by at least 1, but I'm thinking maybe a class level or perhaps some minions helping it will make for a better fight. Ideas?
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Mmm. Minions help.
I'd go with minor clockwork things to fit the clock tower theme. Enemies that add distraction without particularly adding danger could significantly help the dragon out without needing to alter a dragon statblock.
A handful of clockwork spies would be one of my first options. Or take a spider swarm or two, change its creature type to a construct, and give your dragon a couple swarms of tiny clockwork spiders to sic on the PCs.
Here's a quick and easy stat block of what I plan to use.
XP 400
Variant Spider Swarm
N diminutive construct (clockwork, swarm)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft., tremorsense 30 ft.; Perception +4
DEFENSE
AC 17, touch 17, flat-footed 14 (+3 Dex +4 size)
hp 9 (2d8)
Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +0
Defensive Abilities swarm traits
Immune mind-affecting effects, weapon damage
Weaknesses swarm traits
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.
Melee swarm (1d6 plus distraction)
Special Attacks distraction (DC 11)
Space 10 ft., Reach 0 ft.
STATISTICS
Str 1, Dex 17, Con --, Int --, Wis 10, Cha 2
Base Atk +1; CMB --; CMD --
Skills Climb +11 (0 ranks +3 Dex +8 climb speed)
Perception +4 (0 ranks +4 racial mod)
Racial Modifiers +4 Perception, uses Dex for Climb
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I like the clockwork swarms - they are literaly distracting, after all :P
between a dragon being highly mobile (with fly speed) and a cool battlefield with a lot of moving parts, adding in ANOTHER element that will have the spellcasters constantly on the move will make for a cool fight scene.
EDIT: though I'll probably use the stat block not to describe a swarm of clockwork spiders but just a swarm of tiny clock parts, slashing and battering at opponents, which seems more falvourful.
Flavour it however you think will work best. ^_^
Glad to have been of help.
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Actualy coming to think about it some more, I think I am going to give up the neat idea of a dragon in a clockwork tower and swap the dragon with Nezannha.
What I mean is: The PCs will march to the clocktower to defeat the white witch, Nezannha, who is overseeing the city from her clocktower. Killing a white witch is a sure way to start a riot in a city such as Whitethrone.
Later, in the enchanted fey forest, the PCs encounter a dragon that was trapped there and still guards the cabin.
I like this idea more since Nezannah is a more important villain and she desreves more of a spotlight. It also makes a bit more sense to met to assasinate a white witch if you want to acheive chaos, than to just kill a high ranking guardsman (or in this case guardsdragon).
I like that. It makes sense.
Hey guys. I have some questions as my players will hopefully start this book soon:
Gremlins : Do they know if their curse is successful? And will they try again if not?
Gremlin aftermath : Am I correct in thinking DC to find food is 15? That doesn't seem to tough and dampens the gremlin impact. Especially with multiple people (including Nadya) attempting.
That said there will be the party + 3 to provide for so it could prove difficult I suppose
Logrivich : I have a party of either 5-6 players. 2 are wizards who are now loading up on fire spells (about to head to pale tower in current game) and 2 are paladins. There also may be a cleric of Sarenrae with fire domain
This party make up as is will make Logrivich a painfully easy encounter and a massive anti climax
My PCs were already disappointed when the two paladins declared Smite and the three melee characters chopped Teb Knotten to ribbons in about 2 rounds
How can I improve this battle? My only thoughts so far is finding a way of getting him resist energy (either caster levels or an allied caster in the encounter)
What do people think?
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Give everything max hit points. You might want to give some foes extra levels as well.
Are your players rolling for stats or using point builds? It seems rolling for stats can sometimes result in "overpowered" characters; the best way to compensate for this is to increase the hit points of foes.
20 point buy (don't know why I was feeling generous)
It just strikes me that in some instances the HP may not be enough.
I am especially uncertain about the dragon against 2 paladins and potentially 3 ranged fire users. Could be looking at 3 fireballs at around DC 18
Average of 45 damage in one round even if all saves are passed
It will be a quick fight....
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Hey guys. I have some questions as my players will hopefully start this book soon
Cool. The Developer Rob McCreary may have his own thoughts on the matter.
Gremlins : Do they know if their curse is successful? And will they try again if not?
Yes, the gremlins know if the curse is successful or not. This is fully supported in the Core Rules. If you need a rule citation to back you up, check pages 216 and 217 of the Core Rule Book under the section: Succeeding on a Saving Throw. In the case of any spell without an obvious physical effect, the caster knows whether the target makes their Save or not, and the target feels a "hostile tingling sensation". This particularly applies since gremlin's tinker ability is by definition identical to bestow curse.
I wouldn't have them try that exact trick again, but I wouldn't have them go away either. I would have them come back a couple night later with some new dastardly trick. On the other hand, the players are not likely to be able to discover what they were trying to do in the first place.. so maybe repetition would be fine.
Gremlin aftermath : Am I correct in thinking DC to find food is 15? That doesn't seem to tough and dampens the gremlin impact. Especially with multiple people (including Nadya) attempting.
That said there will be the party + 3 to provide for so it could prove difficult I suppose
No, actually you have oversimplified the DC on that Survival check. The DC is dependent on the number of people you're trying to feed. At DC 10 you can obtain food for one person, and another person for every +2 the roll succeeds by. Let me break down for you:
DC 10 = feed 1 personDC 12 = feed 2 people
DC 14 = feed 3 people
DC 16 = feed 4 people
DC 18 = Feed 5 people
DC 20 = feed 6 people
DC 22 = feed 7 people
DC 24 = feed 8 people. Which is where you're at, right?
Now, I don't believe myself, Neil, or Rob spelled out any extra difficulty in obtaining food, but by definition food is scarce is in Irrisen. You would not be unreasonable in applying a modest circumstance penalty to food gathering Survival checks. I wouldn't be punitive about it, but I wouldn't hesitate to add a —2 modifier to maintain the challenge, if you actually need it!
You can also consider how many characters can actually Assist. After a certain point too many hunters can scare away game.
Logrivich : I have a party of either 5-6 players. 2 are wizards who are now loading up on fire spells (about to head to pale tower in current game) and 2 are paladins. There also may be a cleric of Sarenrae with fire domain
This party make up as is will make Logrivich a painfully easy encounter and a massive anti climax
My PCs were already disappointed when the two paladins declared Smite and the three melee characters chopped Teb Knotten to ribbons in about 2 roundsHow can I improve this battle? My only thoughts so far is finding a way of getting him resist energy (either caster levels or an allied caster in the encounter)
What do people think?
Definitely give Logrivich some help. We don't mean to under challenge your PCs, but we do have to design towards a consistant and regular baseline, and that is four PCs.
That being said, five PCs does not automatically tip the CRs up +1, but six players definitely DOES warrant increasing the CR by +1. I wouldn't just do that for Logrivich, I would do that across the board.
But let's stick to Logrivich for this post!
The easiest solution is to bump him up to juvenile white dragon, but perhaps a better recourse is to address the economy of action situation you have happening with six players.
May I make a suggestion? Add a clockwork servant from Bestiary 2 and apply the Advanced Simple template to make it tougher—a nice CR 3. Together with the young Logrivich it should make a fair challenge and provide two different combatants, once of whom is not vulnerable to fire. CR 6 + CR 3 = CR 7. From a story perspective the clockwork servant is "redesigning and repairing" the clock to account for and accommodate Logrivich's vandalism. That way the clock still keeps the time and the dragon keeps his unique lair above the city. You can also add a nice little touch by granting the clockwork servant a bonus special ability to move through the clockwork mechanism as if they were normal squares. The servant doesn't do much damage, but it might get some players tangled up in those nets so Logrivich can breath cold on them. Being in a net also makes casting spells very difficult.
Hope this helps!
Jim
Follow-up on the previous post, if you increase the entire Logrivich encounter from CR 6 to CR 7, you can also justify some extra treasure.. Probably a potion of energy resistance. I wouldn't do this for just any encounter, but definitely this dragon encounter. He's only Large so he can manipulate objects with his claws. Have him swallow the whole potion, vial and all—crunch it in his teeth. He'll pay for it later. That is an easy way to give him some fire protection and make that a good fight.
Don't use that schtick too often though!
Logrivich is smart enough to seek out some form of fire resistance. I'm going to do him that service at the very least.
His tactics should be hit and run - I don't anticipate melee characters being the hitch in that plan. Of course, they'll tear him to shreds if he stands between them, so he shouldn't.
You should also feel free to turn the environment to his advantage. Cover the top of the clock tower with ice and make it snowing outside, so he can use his racial abilities better.
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You should also feel free to turn the environment to his advantage. Cover the top of the clock tower with ice and make it snowing outside, so he can use his racial abilities better.
Absolutely! He's not going to fight fair, especially in melee. His icewalking ability allows him to stand out on that furthest icy ledge with no chance of slipping or falling, while the PCs have difficult terrain conditions as described in the adventure. If the PCs want a flank that bad, let them come with short distance of a bull rush off the side of a fifty foot tall tower while standing on ice.
I had him breathe on the clocktower to sorta cover it in ice, then used his ice walking power to crawl all over it, popping over one side to bite then crawling around and back for cover...my players had a devil of a time trying to get a good shot at him, both the ones inside and those who were on the ground with bows.
My heroes were limping at the end...Logrivich died but they were popping healing potions like crack junkies to heal up...it was a good fight...we had fun!
Thanks everyone. I will re review the location
On the food gathering wpuld you only allow one check for the group even if 3 have it as class skills and people can always give it.a go? I like the point about scaring away game
Limiting the allowable checks will certainly make things much harder.
Also I think the adventure specifies the standard DC is 5 higher in the Irrisen wilderness
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Thanks everyone. I will re review the location
On the food gathering wpuld you only allow one check for the group even if 3 have it as class skills and people can always give it.a go? I like the point about scaring away game
Limiting the allowable checks will certainly make things much harder.
Also I think the adventure specifies the standard DC is 5 higher in the Irrisen wilderness
Well, allowing people to make Assist checks is a valid part of the game, you probably don't want to prohibit that altogether. You also don't want the other players to think that they invested skill points in Survival for nothing.
I see two valid ways to approach this:
1.) Separate people make their own individual checks with bonuses from other players. This allows multiple people to try, and the chances of at least one player to succeed, at least marginally, is much greater.
2.) You allow people to make Assist checks but you decide how many characters can reasonably any one character making a Survival check. The rule book doesn't provide a guideline for this, so its really up to the GM's sense of verisimilitude. I suggest that two characters can make assist checks to help a third character make the actual Survival check. But your sense of realism should dictate the actual number. I would strive for a fair challenge but not a punitive one.
What you want to avoid is having five other players and the NPC all making assist checks (because Survival doesn't require you to be trained) and adding a potential +12 bonus to one players roll, who then hypothetically rolls a 40 and can feed a second party of players! That won't make it seem like Irrisen is particularly harsh, any more than Logrivich going down in one round of combat.
Also, if everybody is hunting, no one is building or defending the camp. It takes time to make a camp and it takes time to hunt. But I wouldn't actually make this as complex or difficult as I'm describing, these are just points to consider if the players try to "game the system".
Otherwise, if they make straight forward check and roll really well—good for them! Don't take that victory away from them.
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I'm wrapping up Snows of Summer this week and moving right into The Shackled Hut in the same session (we left off in the Pale Tower with only the Ritual Chamber/Radosek encounter and Aerie unexplored).
My Players are eager to spend some of there well earned coin and are holding out for Whitethrone with it's bigger market/gp limit. But the Market itself is overrun with First World anomalies and the city is under martial law...
How difficult, given the Mirror Men patrols and the Market being basically out of commission, should it be for PCs to purchase, sell, or trade magic items? I'm assuming getting the paperwork from Mortin will make it much easier to deal with the patrols, but should anything else effect their chances of "shopping" in the "big city"? Should I assume the Herald's of Summer's Return are capable of taking on the role of merchant too?
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Yes, Closetgamer, you have the right idea.
The Herald's can act as proxies on the PCs behalf and procure equipment for them.
Also, I did give this some careful thought, and tried to spell it out but perhaps I could have been more explicit. There is some "free time" built into this adventure, but it's subtle. After they obtain some papers from Mortin and before they go to Logrivich's Tower—the campaign clock stops ticking. I mean they're not under a deadline and don't have to be anywhere at a specific time. This is a good interval to do some shopping or even explore Whitethrone; which allows the GM to insert their own side adventures.
There is some tension to this "free time" because their credentials can be questioned. You, as GM, however should feel free to lighten up a little and let them buy and sell as you see fit. It is a balancing act because the city is under martial law, but the nature of game does require a GM to make some allowances for the sake of fun.
Once they begin the Clock Tower and ESPECIALLY after they kill the dragon, the sense of urgency should return. There is not a specific clock on the rest of the chapter after that point, because the party might need to rest, but the sense that time is no longer on their side should be evident.
I hope this helps!
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I hope this helps!
It does help Jim, and it's always awesome to get input directly from you guys! I'm planning to ramp up the martial law and try to give Whitethrone a Cold War feel. The Herald's will play a slightly more significant role in my game too.
From conception, the Wizard (spellslinger) has as part of his background, a love interest that left him suddenly because she was receiving Divine visions (from Milani). The PC never knew where she went and has since taken up trying to find her (and found himself on an adventure to save the world). The idea was for him to eventually take Leadership and get a Cohort that would supplement the lack of healing. The Player assumes this will be his long lost love interest, and that they will be reunited, going on to save the world together and live happily ever after.
However, I have a different idea. The PC's love interest replaces Bella Belvorica as the captive/lover of Solveig in Logrivich's Clock Tower! Personally, I'd like to have her eaten by Logrivich and make Solveig the Cohort... Oh, the drama to ensue!
Any thoughts, ideas, or advice?
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I love that sense of drama and use of relationships!
Spoiler tag for your players (this is a GM thread and we don't strictly need them, but I don't want your PCs to 'accidentally' snoop)
Do just half of what you propose. Replace Bella with your PC's love interest and then just sit back and watch. Sometimes less is more. Let the characters roleplay and sort out that sticky situation. If you have Logrivich eat the love interest, you have removed the conflict and replaced it with just passive heartbreak for your Player and Solveig. If you're going to add a relationship conflict, let it play out a little!
That's what I would do. You're a mean GM! I love it!
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I notice the Frigid Touch (Su) Ability of the Winter Fey Template on page 91 is completely different than the spell Frigid Touch. Is this accurate? I'm not sure which I like better, the 4d6 cold damage + staggered or the 1d6 Dexterity damage... Neither give a save and seem relatively even in power.
Just curious why they don't have the same effect I guess...
just a goof on their part to duplicate names, they are not related at all.
Regarding the rimepelt, as a prospective GM, would it be reasonable to have the pelt left over from an expended rimepelt as a material make it easier/cheaper to make another one from the same pelt, or to have a way to somehow "Recharge" it?
Regarding the rimepelt, as a prospective GM, would it be reasonable to have the pelt left over from an expended rimepelt as a material make it easier/cheaper to make another one from the same pelt, or to have a way to somehow "Recharge" it?
That sounds reasonable to me.
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Regarding the rimepelt, as a prospective GM, would it be reasonable to have the pelt left over from an expended rimepelt as a material make it easier/cheaper to make another one from the same pelt, or to have a way to somehow "Recharge" it?
I inadvertently let my group make the same Survival check to make a second Rime Pelt after killing Korgin in the Howlings. Only after did I remember the verbiage in the item description saying that such a feat was only rarely possible. Oh well. It hasn't proved to be a big deal. They got it right before going to the Shrine of the Everbloom, and now they are in the Clock Tower... So I doubt it makes too much difference.
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The Clock Tower is dangerous.
My group is way above the average power level for the AP, and they still barely survived the first floor. At one point they were basically surrounded by the trolls and it was looking like a TPK.
I decided that due to all the mechanical workings of the tower that the -5 Perception (to hear) penalty in effect nullified any chance of enemies on the other levels from hearing the sounds of combat, lest my whole table revolt against me.
As it stands, they are beaten and battered and on their way upstairs. We ended with them heading up and declaring "We're going straight to the top, no stopping on the intermediate levels... Kill the dragon!!).
Any thoughts on how to deal with that?
I don't have a problem with it really as they will still want to deal with the baddies on the way out (xp/treasure wh*res that they are).
I'm thinking of adding a few trolls to the Logrivich encounter because I honestly think the groups Barbarian is going to pummel that dragon if he can get in close enough to him. I plan on having the floor covered in slippery ice (half speed for movement or risk falling).
What other tactics can I use to make this dragon encounter more intimidating? I want them to be scared to death, without actually killing them all...
Noted, closetgamer. Might be Monday before I can get back with you, unless Rob or another poster does so first.
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I'm taking a break and answering this now instead of Monday.
The Clock Tower is dangerous.
My group is way above the average power level for the AP, and they still barely survived the first floor. At one point they were basically surrounded by the trolls and it was looking like a TPK.
I decided that due to all the mechanical workings of the tower that the -5 Perception (to hear) penalty in effect nullified any chance of enemies on the other levels from hearing the sounds of combat, lest my whole table revolt against me.
This is pretty much what I intended, but I didn't want to "hard code" that it was impossible for creatures upstairs to hear what is happening downstairs. That said, I wouldn't do it myself for exactly the reasons you describe, and I provided the background noise penalty to skew in favor of that not happening. The doors also specifically heavy duty. My mind was on breaking these encounters up as much as possible and preventing a dogpile on the PCs, so your concern comes as no surprise.
If your PCs are anything like mine, they'll never head into a location at midnight on a dark and stormy night, no matter how atmospheric and cool that is in MY mind's eye. No, they'll go exploring at promptly 9 am, hopefully under a bright and sunny sky. Mechanically the game encourages that.
Use that to your advantage in storytelling. The ice trolls are probably groggy and half-awake. I don't know if ice trolls are specifically nocturnal, but I don't see any of the residents (Granny included) as "morning people". So they might not be that alert yet. That one troll shouts for "Granny!" to show the relationship, and to add some light-hearted fairy-tale ambiance. It is debateable whether Granny is actually going to bust her hip running down steps every time a troll wants a snack (or a grape soda or whatever).
As it stands, they are beaten and battered and on their way upstairs. We ended with them heading up and declaring "We're going straight to the top, no stopping on the intermediate levels... Kill the dragon!!).
Any thoughts on how to deal with that?
I don't have a problem with it really as they will still want to deal with the baddies on the way out (xp/treasure wh*res that they are).
Its not the worst thing that could happen really. Granny and her little helper are not the fiercest combatants, so if Logrivich softens them up even further, they stand a better chance of putting up a good fight. If not, the Gobbler sure will. And if the PCs still have a lot of fight in them, don't be afraid of having Granny run to L11, and cast spells while the Gobbler keeps them busy.
I'm thinking of adding a few trolls to the Logrivich encounter because I honestly think the groups Barbarian is going to pummel that dragon if he can get in close enough to him. I plan on having the floor covered in slippery ice (half speed for movement or risk falling).
What other tactics can I use to make this dragon encounter more intimidating? I want them to be scared to death, without actually killing them all...
Well, first and foremost, get Logrivich flying and don't have him land until you feel you have had a semi-satisfying fight. He can keep flying around the tower, using his breath weapon. Use ice shape to cover the trap door while he's flying to trap them in that top chamber. Use it to spread the ice over the unexposed floors of the map. Force your ranged weapon people to do their jobs. They don't have a lot of good ranged weapons? Then its a good time to learn to diversify your possible means of attack.
Secondly, never have Logrivich land on square that is not covered in ice. That ice "landing pad" will support his weight (he made it). He can't slip or fall, and if he does, it won't harm him.
Here's what the Pathfinder Core Rules say:
Ice Effects
Characters walking on ice must spend 2 squares of movement to enter a square covered by ice, and the DC for Acrobatics checks increases by +5.
It doesn't call ice as difficult terrain, but I believe that is an oversight because it meets the definition. Therefore your barbarian and his friends cannot run or charge across the ice. Make them wade into combat and suffer attacks of opportunity from his reach attack. Keep Logrivich's back right at the edge of the ice to screw with their ability to get a good flank. And please, do bullrush one of them right off the edge. Its only a 50-ft. drop below with a long walk to get back into the fight. Psyche them out if you have to.. make them nervous about the relative value of a flank.
You can add ice trolls, but I can't speak to how that might skew the encounter. The other option, if you don't mind a little homework, is to upgrade him to juvenile instead of young. +1 CR, +2 HD (which increases his hitpoints, BAB, and adds a feat), +3 Natural Armor, increment his breath weapon by one level. Plus he gets a neat new power, fog cloud- which he can see through because of his snow vision ability. All this and he stays the same size! Which doesn't mess with the map!
That might keep the focus on the dragon, while making it a more meaningful fight.
Hope this helps!
Relatively trivial questions:
At the start of this adventure the party is probably going to want to stock up on rations. Does anyone have any thoughts on how many days worth would reasonably be available from the town store?
Because between the party (4-5 people), Nadya, 2 children and however many dogs for the sleds that is a lot of rations
On a similar question, is it clarified how much can be loaded per dog sled (important for rations, gear and treasure)
May seem like trivial points but I'd like to play this up as it is probably one of the main examples in the AP (other than very start) that harshness of the environment can really be demonstrated
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Awesome response Jim! Thanks for all the insight.
I knew I needed to look at the iced floor/terrain rules and was just "guestimating".
I had also thought of advancing Logrivich, and think that will be a better approach then simply adding more Trolls.
There was some mention of adding a clockwork golem or some such in a previous post. I may look at that as well.
As I said, they are much more powerful than the module calls for, so I like to plan ahead and then back it down if I need to.
Thanks again!
Awesome response Jim! Thanks for all the insight.
I knew I needed to look at the iced floor/terrain rules and was just "guestimating".
I had also thought of advancing Logrivich, and think that will be a better approach then simply adding more Trolls.
There was some mention of adding a clockwork golem or some such in a previous post. I may look at that as well.
As I said, they are much more powerful than the module calls for, so I like to plan ahead and then back it down if I need to.
Thanks again!
Once upon a time...
I created an extremely complex trap device for the room. Basically it was a berserk bellringer than went back and forth along the tracks and knocked around everything in its path, and if you were on one of the ledges it might knock you off. You were really only at risk if you were in its path. It moved at a steady pace (like 30 feet per round), so you could run out while it was on the other side and duck back inside if you timed it right. While THAT sounds neat, it was crunchy big chunk of wordcount that Mr. McCreary wisely excised. However, if you want to play around with the concept you're welcome to!
Oh, and he only saw the version that I had to reduce for wordcount. Once upon a time you could stop the bellringer by damaging the clockwork mechanism.. and I had a clockwork servant from Bestiary 3 who would come along and try to repair it and reactivate the bellringer and then fire nets at the PCs. All while Logrivich was flying around and attacking.
Rob was right, it was a crazy mess.
But if you want those ideas you're welcome to them. Though, before anybody asks, I am not interested in sharing the original text. That is borderline disrespectful to the Developer. Sometimes really good content has to be cut for space and authors share it. Neil and Brandon do it sometimes. This was confusing complex content that was cut for a reason.
Most material that is cut is for a reason besides space.
Follow-up on the previous post, if you increase the entire Logrivich encounter from CR 6 to CR 7, you can also justify some extra treasure.. Probably a potion of energy resistance. I wouldn't do this for just any encounter, but definitely this dragon encounter. He's only Large so he can manipulate objects with his claws. Have him swallow the whole potion, vial and all—crunch it in his teeth. He'll pay for it later. That is an easy way to give him some fire protection and make that a good fight.
Don't use that schtick too often though!
I am the devil. I hear this almost every game, as I increase levels of NPC baddies (The SGTs from Snows of Summer were level 4, Teb Knotten had a level of Barb, etc.) but I thought Lorgorvich, as a young white dragon, was medium, not large? Now, if I were to bump him to Young Adult, making him large, giving him SR etc, and then some fire protection, would that make him impossible to defeat? Or more appropriate for a commander of the Winter Guard?
Suppose to follow that up, I do have to buff every fight a little bit as I have 6 20pt characters, Nadya as a DMPC, and currently a half-burned Isiamir (who survived the execution by 1 hp) to worry about challenging.
Out of curiosity in the clock tower armory it says that there are piles of miscellaneous normal weapons on a long table. Are these weapons intended to be the Ice trolls weapons (battle axes etc all Large sized) or for the winter guard as a whole (mixed weapons and sizes).
I ask because immediately after entering the clock tower due to a rather ludicrous string of luck (I roll all my attack and damage dice openly when I GM so I can't really pull punches that much) the Caryatid Columns broke every single non magical (and one magic) weapon that the PCs were carrying. (I never rolled below a 16 on the 3d6 for Shatter Weapons).
I allowed my players to loot that pile for random weaponry so they weren't completely defenseless but I'm wavering between saying that they now have to take an outsized weapon penalty (well except the oni born teifling) or just allowing them to have normal weapons due to the potential difficulty of the encounters here.
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Atheral, I think it's in your best interest to say it was a mixed bag of weapons including medium and smaller ones that the trolls used to scratch their backs or pick their teeth.
Either that, or stop rolling openly. I roll on my laptop so they're never obvious and they can't always be 100% sure I'm not checking the pdf or my outline. In my case, I'd have them try to use large weapons and go easy on them by flubbing some rolls until I found an opportunity to reward them with some neat magic stuff for their trouble.
If they broke a magic weapon and all their normal stuff, you might also want to check their average character wealth and see if they need extra loot before getting up to the dragon.
Atheral, I think it's in your best interest to say it was a mixed bag of weapons including medium and smaller ones that the trolls used to scratch their backs or pick their teeth.
Either that, or stop rolling openly. I roll on my laptop so they're never obvious and they can't always be 100% sure I'm not checking the pdf or my outline. In my case, I'd have them try to use large weapons and go easy on them by flubbing some rolls until I found an opportunity to reward them with some neat magic stuff for their trouble.
If they broke a magic weapon and all their normal stuff, you might also want to check their average character wealth and see if they need extra loot before getting up to the dragon.
Pretty much what I decided to do is allow just a random pull from the pile for a normal mix of weapons. It came out alright as they immediately wiped the floor with the next two encounters. Oddly enough the Large sized weapons would actually have been a bonus to the Teifling Barbarian who specialized in wielding large weapons. Currently he's a little upset as his new great sword no longer does 3d6 damage.
As far as rolling in secret, I do that for skill checks, the reason I have to roll openly for attack and damage is that my players actually get more irritated if I fudge the rolls in their favor and complain if I "go easy on them". Even if it means the results of lucky rolls on my part means that they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
So don't tell them you fudged. Or start pausing just before a hit and say "and it... hit." They complain and you say "I didn't want to go easy on you. It kept rolling 1s. Do you WANT a cake-walk?" ;)
Fudges go both ways, after all.
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One of my players would be mad if I thought I was going easy on them, too. So they never know. I lie constantly to make the story better. If they're having an easy time of it, enemies magically get more hp or hit more often. If they're having a tough time, I fudge by missing a little more and doing less damage when I hit.
Generally, I try to avoid that but sometimes it's unavoidable for me. TPK's and resetting wastes a bunch of time we could spend progressing the story so I challenge them without breaking them too badly. Like my precious, fragile toys.
That's the point! =^-^= You fudge to make things interesting! Killing players is useless, but cakewalks are also useless! I mean, would anyone consider the final battle against Karzoug in Runelords to be satisfying if someone got a lucky critical with a magic weapon that enhanced critical damage and maxed out everything by luck... and took him down with one shot?
Oh, they'd hoot and backslap each other but afterward they'd comment on how they expected that fight to be EPIC. And yet one player had all the glory and the rest just watched one shot go off that ended everything.
Fudge away! Make the battle interesting! For both sides.
Hmm...maybe I should rephrase something so I'm saying what I actually mean.
I don't fudge the die rolls as in the number that shows up on the die. I do play kinda fast and loose with stats, AC, hp, reinforcements, morale, etc. when I think it is in the best interest of the story.
The rolling in the open does make it difficult sometimes but it keeps the peace with my players.
That is unless I pick one particular d20 that my players have dubbed the "PC killer" then I normally get grief.
Do you keep PC stats hidden then? Do the PCs not know their own hit points? I mean, one lucky critical with max damage can kill even a tough PC. And with the amount of work that goes into crafting a PC (background, equipment, story hooks...) then there's a loss of interest if all that work is wiped out.
Mind you, I once had six PCs die in one adventure because the GM was a "let the dice roll" (and insisted that since I died, I start out at 1st level in a 12th-level game). So I perhaps have a different view on how annoying it is to lose character after character because of the dice. And this may color my view of that style of GMing. I do know that my Players rather enjoy my game, even if they know that I'm a tad less bloodthirsty than some GMs.
If your players insist otherwise? *shrugs* I cannot comprehend that mindset.
The PCs know their own stats, I was referring to NPC and Monsters.
I am rather lenient when it comes to PC deaths though, I can't think of a situation where I would require the new PC to come in at anything less than parity with the party. Most of the time they have back up character's waiting in the wings anyway. One fellow that plays with us never has a stable of less than 10 when starting a campaign "just in case" he says. Oddly none of his characters have ever had to be replaced.
and as they say "different strokes for different folks" what works for one group is anathema to another.
Do you keep PC stats hidden then? Do the PCs not know their own hit points? I mean, one lucky critical with max damage can kill even a tough PC. And with the amount of work that goes into crafting a PC (background, equipment, story hooks...) then there's a loss of interest if all that work is wiped out.
Mind you, I once had six PCs die in one adventure because the GM was a "let the dice roll" (and insisted that since I died, I start out at 1st level in a 12th-level game). So I perhaps have a different view on how annoying it is to lose character after character because of the dice. And this may color my view of that style of GMing. I do know that my Players rather enjoy my game, even if they know that I'm a tad less bloodthirsty than some GMs.
If your players insist otherwise? *shrugs* I cannot comprehend that mindset.
Thus far I have been a "let the die" roll DM. I roll in front of them, and I secretly fudge from time to time, I admit: I may not have always added up favored enemy correctly on my buffed monsters though, specially when the healer had 1 hp left and two off my six are incompetent. But for Reign of Winter we've already had a TPK, and I told them that its going to be a hard campaign. I'm not going to pull punches, and if they die, they die, I would NEVER make them come in as a different level. I am not even doing EXP, that way I don't have to deal with PCs getting up in arms about an NPC joining the party and leeching EXP. However, as they are in Irrisen now, and later Iobaria, and Triaxus, and then Earth, I am going to make them "sell" me a character backstory so that they can get back in.However, I put that incoming character at the AVG party wealth instead of what the book recommends (Level 2 TPK and they came in with 500 gold).
I was even thinking about letting them play Winter Wolves if they die and one of the PCs befriended Greta. But those rules are a bit funky.As for the weapons and the columns, I would have it be large weapons, help with the feel that humans aren't supposed to be here, and if they are, they're food (children) or slaves. Have the Heralds hook them up though. My understanding is they would help the PCs with just about anything they needed, and play up the urgency when they get back to them and inform them that they don't have any arms, because they broke trying to get INTO the tower. Maybe have Lorgivich post guards and start air patrols after that, show that their actions have an impact on the world.
I've not yet gotten to the Winter Gate, but I've decided to integrate the Mythic Rules into the game in place of the +2 to one stat (though the 2nd Mythic Tier would allow the +2). One thing Mythic does is double the hit points you can go while unconscious... and auto-stabilize. Thus the lethality of the game is reduced.
Though to be honest, I'm less worried about killing off the group. I've a group of now-4th level characters (and one 5th) just now leaving the Hunting Lodge, and have been upping the power of the encounters to compensate. (Though I might have overdone that slightly with the bigger Ice Elementals - just two Elementals almost killed two players and would have killed at least one of them if I hadn't spread out my attacks (it made sense, the other player hit hard so the Elemental felt he was the greater threat)... the third was perhaps overdoing it.)
There are a few methods of reducing death likelihood at low levels. One I rather like was just doubling the first level hit points (at maximum levels) - this allowed the character to have the survivability of 2nd level without increasing their power. Seeing that one critical hit can kill many 1st level characters, I don't see that as unreasonable.
Yeah some of the encounters are brutal. My pc's are almost to the hut itself having almost died in the tower. A critical hit did kill one, but he decided he wanted to try a different character concept so the party didn't pay for a raise dead. Also to help out my players I give them one free reroll per session does not carry to the next session. Can be used to reroll an attack, skill, hit point roll, or force me to reroll a critical hit on a ally. But I also have 2 reroll that I can use against them. It seems to work out well in the long run.
What kind of things happen to a swallowed PC when encountering the gobbler? It's insides ac and hit points are listed, do you use the normal swallowed whole rules even though its a giant stove? I ran it tonight and was kinda mesmerized by it. Would the inside have hardness? Could you "cut your way out"?