I have been glancing at both systems and am unsure what I'd like to explore. Both seem really cool and with GURPS you can add a lot of stuff, including using the book Cthulhupunk for great old ones walking around. I don't know what to choose for this setting I have in my head. I'm not going to start any of these games yet (and if I do it'll be online) but later when I have more free time I might explore one or the other.
The Idea:
I was thinking about how I'm a little annoyed that the anime Cybercity Oedo 808 never got to continue beyond the three episodes and that there was a lot of material and I thought since it's a high tech world, Shadowrun would be great for it, but so would Cyberpunk. I have no idea which one would fit it better.
Basically I was thinking of just re-creating the opening where prisoners (of a orbiting prison station) whose sentences each equal around or over 100 years are given the choice to go back to earth to help the police in apprehending high-risk cyber criminals and in return, they get their sentence reduced partially depending on the job, how well they carry it out and so on.
That's the only part of the anime I was intending to use, beyond that it could be anything they encounter and it could be magic or advanced cybertech gone wrong or even the spawn of great old ones.
so which do you think fits better? Shadowrun or GURPS Cyberpunk? Which is the easiest to get into aswell?
You might find some good answers over here: In this thread
Good to see another fan of Oedo, but I'm not entirely sure that "never got to continue beyond three episodes" - the series was planned as a three-episode set, as far as I've ever been able to tell. It's not so much a case of "they didn't get to finish" as "they told the story they wanted to tell."
Osinbar I don't know as I would call Cyberpunk more rules heavy, considering all the various magic, essence, success/skill-specialization/tree rules that live in Shadowrun. The actual core rules section in, say, Cyberpunk 2020, can be condensed to about 20 or so pages, with the rest being flavor and "how-to-be-Cyberpunk" essays. To each their own, though. :)
I'm not entirly sure, there's very little knowledge on wikipedia, but I thought all three of the cyberpunk collection (including AD Police and Genocyber were meant to be teasers, but I can't remember where I heard that from so could be wrong.
Also glad to find another fan of Oedo. I do know they made a computer game based on it so I find it odd that a show that was planned for only three episodes had a computer game. That's like making a game for a show that only lasted one or two episodes, but that's just the way I'm loking at it.
I'm not entirly sure, there's very little knowledge on wikipedia, but I thought all three of the cyberpunk collection (including AD Police and Genocyber were meant to be teasers, but I can't remember where I heard that from so could be wrong.
Also glad to find another fan of Oedo. I do know they made a computer game based on it so I find it odd that a show that was planned for only three episodes had a computer game. That's like making a game for a show that only lasted one or two episodes, but that's just the way I'm loking at it.
You're forgetting the way that the Japanese Anime/Manga market actually works, though.
Shows in the Japanese market are created by Concerns - such as the Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex Group - that set up the scope and limit and duration of what it is that they're going to do. They then decide if they want toys, games, models, and other merchandise. If they do, the licenses for those various things are sold to various groups and sometimes even to other Concerns. Many times, you may find two competing products for the same property that are made by completely disparate companies, and in such a way that would make people in the Western World scratch their heads... This is why you might find, say, a Kaiyodo-produced Macross 7 toy, and a Yamato-produced Macross 7 toy, both of which are next to a Bandai-produced Macross 7 toy - and they're all of the same Valkyrie piloted by the same character. The thing is, one of those may be an injection kit, while another is a vinyl single-pose figure, while the third is a Chogokin super-figure.
So while you could have a 3-part OVA series that "Tells the story it needs to tell" (which is the case with OEDO), you may continue to see things built up in its property space, thanks to the licensing and side-story capacity of the anime/manga market. As long as the terms of the license aren't violated, the license-holders can do whatever they darn well please.
I will say, I'm curious why you're lumping AD Police and Genocyber together as part of a "cyberpunk collection," as they have nothing to do with one another... or am I misunderstanding what you mean?
/curious
I'm not entirly sure, there's very little knowledge on wikipedia, but I thought all three of the cyberpunk collection (including AD Police and Genocyber were meant to be teasers, but I can't remember where I heard that from so could be wrong.
Also glad to find another fan of Oedo. I do know they made a computer game based on it so I find it odd that a show that was planned for only three episodes had a computer game. That's like making a game for a show that only lasted one or two episodes, but that's just the way I'm loking at it.
You're forgetting the way that the Japanese Anime/Manga market actually works, though.
Shows in the Japanese market are created by Concerns - such as the Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex Group - that set up the scope and limit and duration of what it is that they're going to do. They then decide if they want toys, games, models, and other merchandise. If they do, the licenses for those various things are sold to various groups and sometimes even to other Concerns. Many times, you may find two competing products for the same property that are made by completely disparate companies, and in such a way that would make people in the Western World scratch their heads... This is why you might find, say, a Kaiyodo-produced Macross 7 toy, and a Yamato-produced Macross 7 toy, both of which are next to a Bandai-produced Macross 7 toy - and they're all of the same Valkyrie piloted by the same character. The thing is, one of those may be an injection kit, while another is a vinyl single-pose figure, while the third is a Chogokin super-figure.
So while you could have a 3-part OVA series that "Tells the story it needs to tell" (which is the case with OEDO), you may continue to see things built up in its property space, thanks to the licensing and side-story capacity of the anime/manga market. As long as the terms of the license aren't violated, the license-holders can do whatever...
Years ago I bought Oedo, AD Police and Genocyber in the video collection called "The Cyberpunk Collection" where all three videos are in the same collection and you can stand them up to make up a biy symbol as shown here.
I bought this collection way back before DVDs were even heard of and I was in school, only first hearing of different anime like Dragonball Z.
Also I agree I do wonder why they were grouped together, perhaps it was a marketing ploy by Manga Entertainment? Eitherway, they are in the line up of quality, imo with Oedo being the best and Genocyber being the worst.
Edit: Also as Wikipedia points out Oedo is possibly a dystopian future so something along that lines would be a decent system where criminals have become far more deadly and dangerous thanks to advancements in technology.
Ahh, Manga Entertainment's collections! I had forgotten those. *shudder*
Yeah, Genocyber wasn't very good at all. :(
Oedo is absolutely a dystopian future, with a bit of trans-humanistic/paranormal thrown into it (the psychic vampire, for instance). It influenced my early Cyberpunk RPG games heavily, I must admit.
awesome, I'm keeping that in mind when looking at the RPGs. Cyberpunk 2020 looks good from what people have been saying, but I think a more less gritty one would be great for the setting and Shadowrun does cover quite a few bases, apart from would be hard to arrest anyone in the corperations as I'm sure they'd have high value lawyers to defend them.
You are correct. When I ran Shadowrun, though, the rules always seemed secondary to the action. It may be that I stated my opinion poorly.
I think maybe it was just a matter of GM-style for me - my Shadowrun GM's were always very "if the dice say you don't do it, you don't do it," while I tend to play my games more fast and loose, only bringing the rules hard into the game when absolutely necessary - so my Cyberpunk games were always more well loved by the group's players than the Shadowrun games were.
I mean, we're talking about a pair of GM's, here, who would disregard the "I empty my shotgun into him point blank" statement and say that since you didn't overcome every last point of the targets defense successes, he wasn't even stunned. Common sense says one thing, game rules say another, game rules always win - and then only when in the GM's favor.
Bad GM's can ruin even the best game.
I love the SR setting, honestly. But the rules have left a bad taste in my mouth, is all.
Shadowrun's setting is pretty awesome and closer to what I want. Savage Worlds looks interesting with it's new Interface Zero on Kickstarter.
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I have been a fan of Shadowrun since the early days of second edition. GURPS is a solid game system but never really grabbed me. Shadowrun has solid mechanics, especially in Fourth/20th Anniversary Edition. It's not rules light, but neither is GURPS.
I would vote for Shadowrun without hesitation. As an alternative, if you are into creating your own world d20 Modern is always an option and the d20 rules are pretty solid. You can get the d20 Modern books pretty inexpensive these days too.
Definantly leaning towards Shadowrun. I'm reading through the PDF on Seattle and very interesting history to it. I can see myself playing it
I was thinking about how I'm a little annoyed that the anime Cybercity Oedo 808 never got to continue beyond the three episodes and that there was a lot of material and I thought since it's a high tech world, Shadowrun would be great for it, but so would Cyberpunk. I have no idea which one would fit it better.
That is a great anime, definitely one that left you wanting more.
As for the better fit, I have to side with CYBERPUNK on the basis I've played that (a bit) and not SHADOWRUN. Certainly settings-wise CYBERPUNK is closer (i.e. not having any fantasy elements in it), but rules-wise I wouldn't be able to venture an opinion.
I was thinking about how I'm a little annoyed that the anime Cybercity Oedo 808 never got to continue beyond the three episodes and that there was a lot of material and I thought since it's a high tech world, Shadowrun would be great for it, but so would Cyberpunk. I have no idea which one would fit it better.That is a great anime, definitely one that left you wanting more.
As for the better fit, I have to side with CYBERPUNK on the basis I've played that (a bit) and not SHADOWRUN. Certainly settings-wise CYBERPUNK is closer (i.e. not having any fantasy elements in it), but rules-wise I wouldn't be able to venture an opinion.
Well I'm looking more for one where the begining is possible. I'm certainly not going to steal all the elements off it like the guy who managed to download his brain into the computer banks, psychic soldier or even the vampire. Just a place where it fits that there would be a prison orbiting space (or open to not) where a hand full are chosen to go to earth and fight crime in order to pay off their sentence.
Well I'm looking more for one where the begining is possible. I'm certainly not going to steal all the elements off it like the guy who managed to download his brain into the computer banks, psychic soldier or even the vampire. Just a place where it fits that there would be a prison orbiting space (or open to not) where a hand full are chosen to go to earth and fight crime in order to pay off their sentence.
At this point I think then that you are conflating rules systems with settings.
The setting you have in mind can be played out in either the canon Cyberpunk or Shadowrun RPG game settings. I'd personally lean more toward Cyberpunk, in that settings-wise, there already are orbital prisons and many of the things that take place in Oedo, but speaking strictly settings wise, either will work.
Rules Systems on the other hand, have nothing to do with the actual setting. So I think that saying "I'm looking more for one where the beginning is possible" is a little off target - either setting would allow this. You as a GM have the ability to say "this is what's happening" - you make the beginning of Oedo possible in your game...
So at this point I think we're at the part where you pick which ruleset doorway you walk through.
Or am I completely missing your point? That's possible. I'm kinda tired.
Well I'm looking more for one where the begining is possible. I'm certainly not going to steal all the elements off it like the guy who managed to download his brain into the computer banks, psychic soldier or even the vampire. Just a place where it fits that there would be a prison orbiting space (or open to not) where a hand full are chosen to go to earth and fight crime in order to pay off their sentence.At this point I think then that you are conflating rules systems with settings.
The setting you have in mind can be played out in either the canon Cyberpunk or Shadowrun RPG game settings. I'd personally lean more toward Cyberpunk, in that settings-wise, there already are orbital prisons and many of the things that take place in Oedo, but speaking strictly settings wise, either will work.
Rules Systems on the other hand, have nothing to do with the actual setting. So I think that saying "I'm looking more for one where the beginning is possible" is a little off target - either setting would allow this. You as a GM have the ability to say "this is what's happening" - you make the beginning of Oedo possible in your game...
So at this point I think we're at the part where you pick which ruleset doorway you walk through.
Or am I completely missing your point? That's possible. I'm kinda tired.
no you've hit the nail right on the head. I was also curious what was easiest to get into for myself.
My only experience with roleplaying games are 3.5 for a few years before Pathfinder (started getting into it, back when there was only the core book and bestiary I believe) and I DM 3 games on here in pathfinder system (Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker with 6 players and a homebrew campaign) so something not to complex would be perfect and I am certainly leaning strongly to either one, just need to learn the rules.
Hmm. Going back to the OP, I think the problem you're going to run into is that this is a subjective area. Some people will cite one game or the other as better/easier to get into.
Would it be practical to run a one-shot adventure from both settings and compare and contrast? Might be more time-consuming, but it would give you a knowledge base to work from.
LazarX, I disagree only slightly with what you said, here, and that's based entirely on the topic of perception of systems.
I'll be the first to admit that there are a ton of "wow, look at all these cool guns!" players that make/made the CP system their home, but I've frequently found that it's precisely because the combat system in 'Punk is so lethal that the players and the characters often find intricate, role-play based solutions to their problems, rather than just going in guns blazing. Not denying there aren't the "This is awesome! *budda budda budda*" players in there, but just going from a different experience.
But, yeah, absolutely, if you strip the Magic/Mythos out of Shadowrun, you end up with something not quite the same. Which is kind of weird, because as I understand it, the magic and fantasy aspect of the game was kind of a last-minute add-on. Hmm.
As it happens, until fairly recently, Shadowrun sans magic was my go to suggestion for Shirow-punk.
I also get rather confused when people suggest shadowrun is rules lighter or less prone to gun porn than CP2020. It is my personal opinion that the rules of CP2020 are much simpler and more stripped down.
i have tried to learn shadow run so many times, and cannot keep its rules in my head(though CP2020 is in their pretty well.)
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From a purely rule system standpoint I can say that I love Shadowrun. The rules are smooth and intuitive but admittedly, a little complex sometimes. I played Cyberpunk 2020 a couple of times quite a few years ago and I found the rules convoluted but that was so long ago I don't remember anything specific about them.
GURPS was mentioned and the rules are solid but so generic that they never really grabbed me as exciting or interesting and I tried to do GURPS games a few times. I mentioned d20 Modern earlier on and if you played and ran 3.5 and Pathfinder than you already know the d20 Modern rules. The books can e obtained inexpensively and are really good. Don't let the 'modern' moniker fool you, it' really anything post renaissance so if you go with the core rulebook and Future you have everything you need to play whatever you can imagine cyberpunk wise.
If you want a game that already has an established setting you can plug your story into than, as has already been said, Shadowrun and Cyberpunk are the way to go. I am partial to Shadowrun but really I'd say go with whatever grabs you the most. That being said, a group of prisoners sent planetside to do missions to work off their sentence sounds like the perfect setup for a team of Shadowrunners.
/rantwarning
All you people saying that the Cyberpunk 2020 rules are "Convoluted" and "Hard to understand" are making me boggle.
The system is (1D10 + Stat + Skill VS Difficulty) for everything. If you call that "convoluted," yet you can dig into the success-based-system-unless-it-isn't-but-it-still-is-only-not-really ruleset for Shadowrun and call that "elegant," then I am absolutely baffled and honestly want to know what you think is going on.
Because frankly, the mechanic-set for Cyberpunk is almost functionally identical to that of the OGL with the exception of classes, saves, and hit-points/damage - and if you are a-ok with the OGL way of doing things, but consider Cyberpunk "convoluted" there is some serious smoking of controlled substances going on.
I mean, come on.
It's okay not to like Cyberpunk! Honest! It's cool for you to say "I just don't like Cyberpunk," in the same way that it's cool for me to say "I dig the setting of Shadowrun, but I can't stand the 'D&D With Guns' mentality that so many people attribute to that blasted game, and I think that the rule set needs a complete overhaul."
It's okay! You are allowed to not like a game!
Just stop pretending that a system with rules that are almost functionally identical to the OGL games you love so dearly is "convoluted" or "difficult". Because if you're okay with doing something in Game A, but not with doing the same darned thing in Game B, then you're just being a hypocrite.
/endrantwarning
Okay. Sorry. Had to get that out. I promise I won't do that again for a while.
I myself have just started running Shadowrun in the past fortnight. A few hiccups to begin with through cybercombat, but those are getting easier to smooth out with each session.
I haven't played Cyberpunk 2020, so I can't comment.
I find Shadowruns style to be relatively easy to understand. I would recommend it.
I would say for what you're aiming to do then Cyberpunk 2020 is the way to go. Much as I love Shadowrun, there are certain facets of cyberpunk anime that it's not really built to handle, such as full 'borgs like Motoko Kusanagi in GitS.
I'd also recommend Kazei 5 which is a cyberpunk anime sourcebook and setting for the Hero System. It would seem to be right up your street.