Arcane Duelist starting Build


Advice


Hello everyone,
what do you think and what's your suggestions about my first Bard character ever?

I opted for the Arcane Duelist archetype because I always played melee characters; I decided for a Str build.

Janex Elice - HalfElf Bard Arcane duelist 3 (roll dice picking)

STR 19 (+2 half elf)
DEX 14
CON 14

INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 14

Feats:

1st lvl
Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Katana (Ancestral Arms alternate racial traits from ADVPG for hal elf), Arcane Strike (Arcane Duelist Bonus), Improved initiative.

2nd lvl
Combat Casting (Arcane Duelist Bonus)

3rd lvl
Weapon Focus (Katana), Dazzling display (Bonus Feat granted by left arm loss - thanks to my GM)

Spells:

1st lvl
Cure light wounds, Silent Image, Charme Person, Vanish

My priority is to pick Allegro (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/allegro.html#_alle gro) as a second level spell and, when reached the 5th level, with arcane bond, craft a +1 Keen Katana and by reaching new lvls make it flaming, frost etc.

Any suggestions for the rest?

Consider that it's not a power play build, so you can include any advice to make it solid but no Frost-Cheese-like combo stuff, thanks!

p.s.: I'm sorry for my English, I tried to be as clear as I could ;)

Thanks in advance

-Farkas


I think i'd be tempted to drop charm person, since the dc would only be 13. a bard with only a +2 cha... *shrug* seems like they would be more fitted to a dex based build.


IejirIsk wrote:
I think i'd be tempted to drop charm person, since the dc would only be 13. a bard with only a +2 cha... *shrug* seems like they would be more fitted to a dex based build.

I know, but a DC 15 would make the difference? Which lvl 1 spell you suggest?


Weaponwand from Inner Sea Magic is a pretty versatile combat spell. You can put a wand into your weapon and use your katana as either in a turn.

Tap Inner Beauty can help with social skill checks.

Saving Finale (and all the other Finale spells) are always a good choice.


Well, with a low Charisma you may want to steer away from spells that involve saves. Instead, you could focus on buffs and support spells that affect allies, and thus don't require any saves. Also, since you're going to be good at melee combat, you don't want to take too many spells that require you to stop attacking and cast during combat.

I find that having one of the immediate action spells (like Timely Inspiration, Liberating Command, or Saving Finale) is often a good idea, as attacking will usually be your best action, so the less time you spend casting, the better. Timely can be amazing when used in a clutch situation. The only downside to these is that you'll otherwise be using your Swift actions for Arcane Strike. And careful with Saving Finale, as it will mess with your Allegro.

In terms of utility spells (spells to cast outside of combat), I like Featherfall, Unseen Servant, and you already have Silent Image down.

Grease still has some use even if the save fails and is a great spell in general, if a bit overused for that reason.

Your character lost an arm? Cool. ^__^


Hmm... depending on what kinda bard:

Dazzling Blade^, Disguise Self^, Enhance Water, Grease^, Innocence, Liberating Command, Solid Note, or Unnatural Lust*.

* - requires save throw
^ - might require a saving throw depending on use


Chris P. Bacon wrote:

Well, with a low Charisma you may want to steer away from spells that involve saves. Instead, you could focus on buffs and support spells that affect allies, and thus don't require any saves. Also, since you're going to be good at melee combat, you don't want to take too many spells that require you to stop attacking and cast during combat.

I find that having one of the immediate action spells (like Timely Inspiration, Liberating Command, or Saving Finale) is often a good idea, as attacking will usually be your best action, so the less time you spend casting, the better. Timely can be amazing when used in a clutch situation. The only downside to these is that you'll otherwise be using your Swift actions for Arcane Strike. And careful with Saving Finale, as it will mess with your Allegro.

In terms of utility spells (spells to cast outside of combat), I like Featherfall, Unseen Servant, and you already have Silent Image down.

Grease still has some use even if the save fails and is a great spell in general, if a bit overused for that reason.

Uhm i think i'll opt for Liberating Command in place of Charm Person.

Thanks for the reply^^

Is Dazzling Display a solid option in your opinion? At 3rd lvl I have a +10 bonus on Intimidate checks (because I'm a Comedy Performer).
Is a strong move use a full round action to demoralize foes with a +10 bonus? Or are there more functional way, picking some feats, to use my full round actions? I really used to build melee characters and i don't even now how does a not-full-melee combatant works.
4 years of 4th edition building is at fault in my situation ^^

Chris P. Bacon wrote:
Your character lost an arm? Cool. ^__^

Yes. But "Lost" isn't correct. Pulled out by "a female Vampire WereanimalsHunter" that Janex (my PC) banged the night before (whitout knowing the real origins) that's what happened. At first we tought she was the main villain, but thereafter "DADAAA" we disclosed the real enemy: the goat of a little girl was actually an avatar of Baphomet, who was mindcontrolling the werebears in the forest.

Anyway, Layne (the Vampire) pulled out my arm because I challenged her when she tried to intimidate my party but (with a critical on a sense motive check) I realized that she was pretending.

"Janex go against Layne, transformed into a horrible three-lined-theeth vampire. Arrived face to face with the undead, Janex send out a roar, encouraging his allies to make them watching the show: "Are you done?" he says. Layne gazed upon Janex: "This will be more painful to you than me"."
We know the rest of the story


Wow, somebody needs to tell her that that isn't what the "Improved Disarm" feat does! O_O (Somebody other than me, thanks!)

Dazzling Display is pretty good as long as nobody else is already doing a lot of intimidating in your party. Shaken is a very nice debuff which can benefit both the melee characters in your party as well as the spellcasters (since it lowers saving throws). If you're very good at combat you might not bother with it, but in the right situation it can be quite useful.

I tend to build very supportive characters (I once made a very effective halfling Court Bard who I don't think ever made an actual attack roll ever in his career), but they work best in large parties, and ultimately they require strong characters to support. So there's a time and a place for them.


We've got an Arcane Duelist who played through Second Darkness and, with lessons learned, is about to reboot to run through Rise of the Runelords... this is the build he's using and it might be of some help.

He's chosen Human for the greatly expanded spell list Human Bards get through their favored class option. He's also chosen the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Arcane Bloodline - at 5th level that gives him two Arcane Bonds which also greatly boosts his spell-casting ability. Those bonds are his weapon (rapier) and his light shield which will allow him to hold a wand or metamagic rod. He also took one 3rd party feat, something almost never allowed in our group, but it was too perfect for the character: Arcane Shield , not to be confused with the original Pathfinder Arcane Shield. It functions very much like Arcane Strike does except defensively, allowing the Arcane Duelist to channel his magical energy either through his weapon or his shield, both of which are Arcane Bonded items so its entirely appropriate.

Here is the build:

Human 20th level Bard (Arcane Duelist)
Focused Study, Favored class option for Bards

Attributes: (20 point buy)
STR - 15 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th level)
DEX - 12
CON - 12
INT - 12
WIS - 12
CHA - 14 (+1 at 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level)

Traits:
Reactionary
Focused Mind

Feats: (bold indicates class bonus feats)
1st -
1st - Skill Focus: Knowledge (Arcana)
1st - Arcane Strike
1st - Arcane Armor (Light Armor & Shields)
2nd - Combat Casting
3rd - Arcane Shield
5th - Eldritch Heritage - Arcane Bloodline (Arcane Bond - Shield)
6th - Disruptive
7th - Improved Initiative
8th - Skill Focus: Diplomacy
9th - Spell Focus: Enchantment
10th - Spellbreaker
10th - Arcane Armor (Medium)
11th - Discordant Voice
13th - Improved Eldritch Heritage - Arcane Bloodline (New Arcana: 13th level - Dimension Door, 15th level - Feeblemind, 17th level - Transformation)
14th - Penetrating Strike
15th - Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
16th - Skill Focus: Perception
16th - Arcane Armor (Heavy)
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage - Arcane Bloodline (School Power - Enchantment)
18th - Greater Penetrating Strike
19th - Quicken Spell


a bard with 10 cha...which actually means lvl 5 feat is... well... unavailable... 13 lvl feat as well, and transformation, without other boosts to cha, he can never cast...

other than that, it seems like an interesting build.


IejirIsk wrote:

a bard with 10 cha...which actually means lvl 5 feat is... well... unavailable... 13 lvl feat as well, and transformation, without other boosts to cha, he can never cast...

other than that, it seems like an interesting build.

Was this directed at me? Who has a 10 Charisma?


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Grrrr... slight correction to the build - copied from the wrong file:.
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Human 20th level Bard (Arcane Duelist)
Focused Study, Favored class option for Bards

Attributes: (20 point buy)
STR - 15 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th level)
DEX - 12
CON - 12
INT - 12
WIS - 12
CHA - 14 (+1 at 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level)

Traits:
Reactionary
Focused Mind

Feats: (bold indicates class bonus feats)
1st - Arcane Shield
1st - Skill Focus: Knowledge (Arcana)
1st - Arcane Strike
1st - Arcane Armor (Light Armor & Shields)
2nd - Combat Casting

3rd - Improved Initiative
5th - Eldritch Heritage - Arcane Bloodline (Arcane Bond - Shield)
6th - Disruptive
7th - Spell Focus: Enchantment
8th - Skill Focus: Diplomacy
9th - Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
10th - Spellbreaker
10th - Arcane Armor (Medium)

11th - Discordant Voice
13th - Improved Eldritch Heritage - Arcane Bloodline (New Arcana: 13th level - Dimension Door, 15th level - Feeblemind, 17th level - Transformation)
14th - Penetrating Strike
15th - Spell Penetration
16th - Skill Focus: Perception
16th - Arcane Armor (Heavy)
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage - Arcane Bloodline (School Power - Enchantment)
18th - Greater Penetrating Strike
19th - Greater Spell Penetration


Wiggz wrote:
IejirIsk wrote:

a bard with 10 cha...which actually means lvl 5 feat is... well... unavailable... 13 lvl feat as well, and transformation, without other boosts to cha, he can never cast...

other than that, it seems like an interesting build.

Was this directed at me? Who has a 10 Charisma?

Yea, that Bard you posted, at lvl 1 has a 10 cha... the 5th lvl feat req 13, was my point. transformation is a lvl 6, so needs a pseudo-perm 16... that part is doable with a cloak o charisma...

maybe i just tired...


IejirIsk wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
IejirIsk wrote:

a bard with 10 cha...which actually means lvl 5 feat is... well... unavailable... 13 lvl feat as well, and transformation, without other boosts to cha, he can never cast...

other than that, it seems like an interesting build.

Was this directed at me? Who has a 10 Charisma?

Yea, that Bard you posted, at lvl 1 has a 10 cha... the 5th lvl feat req 13, was my point. transformation is a lvl 6, so needs a pseudo-perm 16... that part is doable with a cloak o charisma...

maybe i just tired...

No - the Bard I posted has a 14 Charisma at 1st level, 15 at 8th, 16 at 12th, 17 at 16th and 18 at 20th. Likewise he starts with a 17 Strength which goes up to 18 at 4th level.

The scores shown are the starting attributes determined with a 20 point buy, not what they will be at 20th level. At 20th they would be:

Strength 18
Dexterity 12
Constitution 12
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 12
Charisma 18

That's before magical items, of course.


Ok, that makes more sense... i was sitting looking trying to think why a bard would have 10cha at lvl 1... >.>

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