Free action teleport?

[Memmorath]

Was wondering if there was any single item or feat perhaps, that would allow free action teleport (or similiar effect; doesn't need to be too long a distance jumped) to be used in a combat to effectively teleport next to someone, and still be able to take full round action.

Sticking to the core classes; without archetypes. All possible items and feats usable though. The class in question would be rogue.

Thanks.

[Kiinyan]

Conjuration (Teleport subschool) wizard can do a swift action 5ft teleport, but he loses all actions for the turn unless you get dimensional agility. The skirmisher ranger has a similar ranger trick. The monk can get it with the dimensional agility chain. Free action teleport is frankly broken. It ends the one restriction on melee by making it so they can full-attack at any range, instead of having to move and hit. If you have a flexible GM you might be able to convince him to give you a uses/day extremely expensive set of boots that will do this for you. To give you a baseline, the Boots of Teleportation are 49,000 gold, and only give a standard action teleport 3/day.

[Hawktitan]

There is no way for a rogue to do what you are looking for that I know of. But you can get it as a swift action with caster classes or a monk.

The teleportation subschool ability doesn't work with Dimensional Agility (unless you have a REALLY nice GM that houserules it does). It's still nice though as you can take a full round action and then shift. You just can't shift then do a full round action.

The feats that allow this are Dimensional Agility, Dimenional Assualt, Dimensional Dervish, Dimensional Dervish, and possibly Dimensional Savant. Another way with just Dimensional Agility and Spell Prefection but I don't recommend this. The fastest way to get these feats is with an Eldritch Knight which if built correct can achieve the entire chain by level 13.

[nate lange]

there is one way, but you'll have to be at least 9th level and its not PFS legal...

take the leadership feat- get a wizard cohort, have him use dimension door with his action, then you still have your full action.

[Kiinyan]

Hawktitan wrote:

There is no way for a rogue to do what you are looking for that I know of. But you can get it as a swift action with caster classes or a monk.

The teleportation subschool ability doesn't work with Dimensional Agility (unless you have a REALLY nice GM that houserules it does). It's still nice though as you can take a full round action and then shift. You just can't shift then do a full round action.

The feats that allow this are Dimensional Agility, Dimenional Assualt, Dimensional Dervish, Dimensional Dervish, and possibly Dimensional Savant. Another way with just Dimensional Agility and Spell Prefection but I don't recommend this. The fastest way to get these feats is with an Eldritch Knight which if built correct can achieve the entire chain by level 13.

It's pretty much having a character pay a feat to get a swift action five-foot step a limited number of times per day. And the "as dimension door" and ability to cast dimension door seem close enough, it's not a major bridge to jump.

[Umbral Reaver]

Let's see.

Quickened Dimension Door (CL 15) at will: 216,000 gp!

Quickened Dimension Door 1/day: 43,200 gp. More reasonable, perhaps?

[Arizhel]

There are boots in the UE that let you take a five foot step to move fifteen feet. Not quite the same thing, but a hell of a lot cheaper than the other two.

[Sporge]

I really don't think the teleportation school ability works with those feats. Only since the feats specifically say cast dimension door, and casting a specific spell is different from a supernatural ability that is like it.

That said, I do think an arcane trickster using ddoor around places seems really cool... might not work that great though.

[lantzkev]

I don't see many GMs outside of PFS disagreeing with it though, the ability is modeled after Dimension Door, and there's been some official paizo comments to the effect of if it says it acts like X, it's pretty much X for feats etc

[Nightheir]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Let's see.

Quickened Dimension Door (CL 15) at will: 216,000 gp!

Quickened Dimension Door 1/day: 43,200 gp. More reasonable, perhaps?

But why stop there? Throw on 50 charges and its a mere 21600! I mean, you were only going to use it once per day tops anyways.

EDIT: Tag on that bit about alignment restriction (whatever the character's is), and we can take out another 30%. I'm not sure which order you apply these in, but we could be looking at a price as low as 15120. That should be a lot more budget conscious.

[Memmorath]

Arizhel wrote:

There are boots in the UE that let you take a five foot step to move fifteen feet. Not quite the same thing, but a hell of a lot cheaper than the other two.

What boots might these be? I assume that the 5-foot step taken to teleport 15 feet in this case will still allow full-round attack?

I only need a way to bridge a gap with this sort of a small distance, tactical teleport and have that full-round attack still available.

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Quickened Dimension Door (CL 15) at will: 216,000 gp!

Quickened Dimension Door 1/day: 43,200 gp. More reasonable, perhaps?

Dimensional Door won't allow any actions until my next turn, so... it doesn't really fit into this.

Also, no house-ruling. Going stricly by the book, so to speak.

[Kolokotroni]

Its not teleport, but the quick runners shirt from ultimate equipment allows once per day to do an extra move action as a swift action which would let you do your full attack

Jaunt boots also from ultimate equipment allow you to 3 times a day take a 15ft step instead of a 5ft step.

[Kalridian]

Nightheir wrote:

EDIT: Tag on that bit about alignment restriction (whatever the character's is), and we can take out another 30%. I'm not sure which order you apply these in, but we could be looking at a price as low as 15120. That should be a lot more budget conscious.

I'm not certain if there is an official ruling on this, but i'm pretty sure that the price reduction via alignment or race restrictions is only meant to be applied to sale value, not to crafting price. It Uses the same "ingredients" after all, it's just less valuable on the free market because there are less potenital buyers.

[Doomed Hero]

Be a Shadowdancer, take the Dimensional Agility feats, and (if it's allowed) the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat.

[Elosandi]

It's not a free action, but there are a few options for getting spells as a swift action.

Spelldancer Magus gets it at level 9, they need to activate spelldance first though, they can throw out something like haste or fireball during that first round anyway though.

The regular magus can use dimension door as part of spell combat.

Quickened Dimension Door. (Half-casters might need to use spell perfection on it)

Pick up the dimensional agility feat when you can.

If you're really dead-set against the dimension door + dimensional agility combination, Spell Perfection (Greater Teleport) + Quicken Spell

It would really help if you gave some information on what level range you're looking into.

[Nightheir]

Kalridian wrote:

Nightheir wrote:

EDIT: Tag on that bit about alignment restriction (whatever the character's is), and we can take out another 30%. I'm not sure which order you apply these in, but we could be looking at a price as low as 15120. That should be a lot more budget conscious.

I'm not certain if there is an official ruling on this, but i'm pretty sure that the price reduction via alignment or race restrictions is only meant to be applied to sale value, not to crafting price. It Uses the same "ingredients" after all, it's just less valuable on the free market because there are less potenital buyers.

Sure, but you could just as easily say you DON'T need the same ingredients, because it only has to work for certain people. Either way, it's just fluff at that point. Regardless of intention, that's how it's worded. Plus, that's the buying price listed up there, not the crafting one. So either way, I'm pretty sure it works just fine.

[kyrt-ryder]

Are we talking pure PF or 3.P? 3.5 had a few things that could help you achieve what you want, in addition to the Quickrunner's Shirt and the (houseruled) Jaunt Boots. (RAW and hopefully eventually-to-be-errata'd Jaunt Boots require a standard action to activate which... sucks.)

[Thalandar]

Now you can do it cheap

Cape of the Mountebank

Price 10,800 gp; Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Weight 1 lb.

Once per day on command, this bright red and gold cape allows the wearer to use the magic of the dimension door spell. When he disappears, he leaves behind a cloud of harmless gray smoke, appearing in a similar dramatic fashion at his destination.

Construction Requirements

Cost 5,400 gp

[kyrt-ryder]

Problem 1: On Command generally refers to 'As a Standard Action unless otherwise stated.'

Problem 2: Dimension Door screws you out of further actions. Even if it COULD work as a swift/free, the OP wouldn't be able to take the full attack action he needs.

Problem 3: Once per day is not enough to make a reasonable impact on general tactics. Once per day is more a panic button to get away from a problem than a tactic to use in regular combat.

Problem 4: 10,800 gold is INSANELY expensive. For that price he could have 3 blink shirts, one pair of Jaunt Boots, and enough pocket change to buy a masterworked composite longbow with several points of strength pull.

Now, if he really wants a swift action teleport instead of swift action movement or an expanded 5ft step, he will need to look to 3.5.

Anklets of translocation cost 1400 gold, and allow the wearer to teleport 10 feet as a swift action, twice per day. Two or three pairs should cover it when he can afford it. (They're also great for getting out of grapples or hopping to the other side of walls.)

[Thalandar]

Problem 1 and 2:
Dimensional Dervish
Benefit: You can take a full-attack action, activating abundant step or casting dimension door as a swift action. If your do, you can teleport up to twice your speed (up to the maximum distance allowed by the spell or ability), dividing this teleportation into increments you use before your first attack, between each attack, and after your last attack. You must teleport at least 5 feet each time you teleport.

Problem 3: Once a day would make a huge impact tactically on a boss level encounter

Problem 4: 10,800 gp is the most reasonable gp cost solution in PF, and no it's not insanely expensive at all

[kyrt-ryder]

Re:Dimensional Dervish

Dimensional Dervish wrote:

Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door, Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, base attack bonus +6.

So... for a once per day trick, not only are you spending almost 11,000 gold, which is HUGE. (Seriously, at what level do you normally play dude? That's over half of WBL at level 6) but you're ALSO spending three of your precious feats? I don't understand this logic at all.

[Kiinyan]

Not to mention you can't even GET Dimensional agility unless

Dimensional Agility wrote:

Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door.

Having an item is not the same thing as being able to cast dimension door.

[Thalandar]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Re:Dimensional Dervish

Dimensional Dervish wrote:

Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door, Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, base attack bonus +6.

So... for a once per day trick, not only are you spending almost 11,000 gold, which is HUGE. (Seriously, at what level do you normally play dude? That's over half of WBL at level 6) but you're ALSO spending two of your precious feats? I don't understand this logic at all.

If you look OP, he did not say a level, and I am offering options. I currently am running Skull and Shackles AP were one of the characters has been working to this path and he is currently 9th level. Plunder buys you a lot of dreams...

As for feats, he is human AND a fighter(with a couple levels rogue) (gasp, some ACTUALLY PLAYS THAT?), so hello... retrain (PS look for rules on this for all class with ultimate campagin0.

This works with devistating effects as an opening move when boarding an enemy ship, and on more than one occassion lead to the ship surrendering after the character killed the enemy captain in one round.

Not sure why you are dead set against this, I am just offering an option that I know from experience works really well for the OP to consider.

[Reynard_the_fox]

If you know EXACTLY where you'll be fighting later and can get access to the area beforehand, you could always try using Getaway. :P

[kyrt-ryder]

I'm dead set against it because it's a trap. It's investing a ton of character resources into something that can't be relied upon because it only works once per day.

Human
First
Fighter 1
Fighter 2
Third
Fighter 4
Fifth
Fighter 6
Seventh
Fighter 8
Ninth

That's 11 feats for a straight fighter. Such a fighter would be spending three out of 11 (more than 25% at this point) AND 10,800 gold (which is enough for a lot of different, far more useful/practical/valuable things, or the majority of the price of a pair of Boots of Haste if he had another 1200 gold lying around to throw into them)

It's just a bad logistical decision, and something that would come to haunt a player in a game with more than one fight per day. (As far as I'm aware, the game assumes 4-5 fighters per day on average.)

Also, you say it's a great opening salvo for a boss fight... how is a player supposed to know what's a 'boss fight' in advance, or whether or not the 'boss' is the 'boss' or just the most imposing figure (or illusion) in the room?

I'm sorry if I come off bitter, I just don't like seeing people suffer for bad choices.

[Thalandar]

Also, since it was the openning move and NO ONE expected it can you say suprise round? Add to that the wizard had cast haste on him prior to that, so extra standard action there.

So even with just the first feat:
hasted character activates cloak(standard action), five footsteps through door (no AoO)is now next to enemy captain and has a standard action AND a move action...if he is really lucky, its a suprise action.

Sounds pretty damn effective as a tactic to me, but that's just MHO.

[Thalandar]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

I'm dead set against it because it's a trap. It's investing a ton of character resources into something that can't be relied upon because it only works once per day.

Human
First
Fighter 1
Fighter 2
Third
Fighter 4
Fifth
Fighter 6
Seventh
Fighter 8
Ninth

That's 11 feats for a straight fighter. Such a fighter would be spending three out of 11 (more than 25% at this point) AND 10,800 gold (which is enough for a lot of different, far more useful/practical/valuable things, or the majority of the price of a pair of Boots of Haste if he had another 1200 gold lying around to throw into them)

It's just a bad logistical decision, and something that would come to haunt a player in a game with more than one fight per day. (As far as I'm aware, the game assumes 4-5 fighters per day on average.)

Also, you say it's a great opening salvo for a boss fight... how is a player supposed to know what's a 'boss fight' in advance, or whether or not the 'boss' is the 'boss' or just the most imposing figure (or illusion) in the room?

I'm sorry if I come off bitter, I just don't like seeing people suffer for bad choices.

Well, Sir, then you and I must agree to disagree. I am offering options to the OP (gee, I know I have said that before) to consider or not, based on tactics that have been proven in combat. As, I said it works very well in ship to ship combat. May not work that well in al situations, but considering the focus of the AP, its a great tactic.

[NobodysHome]

As a GM, I'll say you're likely to get very much GM resistance from trying something like this. We started in D&D 4.0 and my son rolled up an eladrin wizard (one free-action 30' teleport per day or some such). The only times he's used it have been to escape adjacent enemies, and even that little has been a game-changer on more than one occasion.

The notion of allowing a fighter or barbarian to teleport right next to your BBEG spellcaster and then get off a full-round action is, quite frankly, painful to contemplate.

I like the examples above that you're basically looking for a quickened Dimension Door. So a command-word activated item = 8 x 15 x 1800 = 216,000 g.p. for this little gem. Ouch!

But reduce it to a once-per-day item and it's "only" 43,200. That's within the realm of attainable.

So talk to your GM first about whether he/she would ever allow such an item. Then hoard your gold.

[Sleet Storm]

This is all awfully complicated for the benefit.

The simple way:
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) then Improved Familiar.Give your Familiar a Wand of D Door.

Voila Free Action D Door for your Fighter.

He can even take all his actions since the restriction only applies to the caster not to anyone the caster moves with them.

[Thalandar]

Sleet Storm wrote:

This is all awfully complicated for the benefit.

The simple way:
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) then Improved Familiar.Give your Familiar a Wand of D Door.

Voila Free Action D Door for your Fighter.

He can even take all his action since the restriction only applies to the caster not to anyone the caster moves with them.

That's awesome

[Thalandar]

NobodysHome wrote:

As a GM, I'll say you're likely to get very much GM resistance from trying something like this.

Why?

NobodysHome wrote:

The notion of allowing a fighter or barbarian to teleport right next to your BBEG spellcaster and then get off a full-round action is, quite frankly, painful to contemplate.

I reward my players for creative thinking. If they find a way to pull it off, all the more power to them. Now, if they try this too offen and the BBEG has intell on their fighting styles.....well

[Aunt Tony]

Why can't you use a Quickened Teleport? I mean, aside from needing to be able to cast level 9 spells: Teleport is level 5, Quicken it is +4 = level 9 spell slot, so doable by Wizard level 17, right? That's surely the latest at which such a thing should be available to PCs.

I would doubt a plain Rogue could do it by the book, though.

UNLESS...:

Rogue can UMD a Contingency spell on himself, set the trigger condition to be "on seeing an enemy" and target the attached Teleport spell to drop him off next to the enemy sighted or something similar.

Why would this work? Because the spell Contingency says:

Quote:

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level)

The Contingency itself may take 10 minutes to cast plus the casttime of the attached spell, but the whole thing goes off instantly as soon as the specified trigger condition is fulfilled. It doesn't even take an action on your part, so you still get your Swift Action on that round!

To UMD both the spells from a Staff is two DC 20 checks. Staff may be expensive (it's CL 18 minimum I believe), but, hey, can't get any easier than that for a non-caster using strictly by-the-books rules.

It's either that or just flat out have the DM create a magic item which takes a swift/free action to activate. You're relying on your DM to ok the whole shennanigan anyway, so why not.

[kyrt-ryder]

Thalandar wrote:

Sleet Storm wrote:

This is all awfully complicated for the benefit.

The simple way:
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) then Improved Familiar.Give your Familiar a Wand of D Door.

Voila Free Action D Door for your Fighter.

He can even take all his action since the restriction only applies to the caster not to anyone the caster moves with them.

That's awesome

That IS awesome. For the price of one feat and not dumping charisma, you get a companion that can do spellcasting for you that goes far and beyond dimension door.

Dimension Door costs 420 gold per casting, for up to 680 feet of movement.

Jester's Jaunt would only carry you 30 feet, but it would also cost 315 gold per casting instead.

[Thalandar]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Thalandar wrote:

Sleet Storm wrote:

This is all awfully complicated for the benefit.

The simple way:
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) then Improved Familiar.Give your Familiar a Wand of D Door.

Voila Free Action D Door for your Fighter.

He can even take all his action since the restriction only applies to the caster not to anyone the caster moves with them.

That's awesome

That IS awesome. For the price of one feat and not dumping charisma, you get a companion that can do spellcasting for you that goes far and beyond dimension door.

Dimension Door costs 420 gold per casting, for up to 680 feet of movement.

Jester's Jaunt would only carry you 30 feet, but it would also cost 315 gold per casting instead.

And now to turn the table on the PCs...maniacal laugh

[Nadalis]

Can someone explain why dimensional agility won't work with the Teleportation school special ability. I understand that dimensional agility states "when casting dimension door" but the teleportation school mentions that you "teleport as if using dimension door." I feel the ability doesn't ans shouldn't state that you "cast dimension door" because it is an ability. Since your action acts like dimension door would it certainly qualify for the dimensional agility ability. I find it a little silly for us to expect a literal reading and expecting us to only use the teleportation school ability to qualify only if it read:

Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space by casting dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

[Aunt Tony]

Thalandar wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Thalandar wrote:

Sleet Storm wrote:

This is all awfully complicated for the benefit.

The simple way:
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) then Improved Familiar.Give your Familiar a Wand of D Door.

Voila Free Action D Door for your Fighter.

He can even take all his action since the restriction only applies to the caster not to anyone the caster moves with them.

That's awesome

That IS awesome. For the price of one feat and not dumping charisma, you get a companion that can do spellcasting for you that goes far and beyond dimension door.

Dimension Door costs 420 gold per casting, for up to 680 feet of movement.

Jester's Jaunt would only carry you 30 feet, but it would also cost 315 gold per casting instead.

And now to turn the table on the PCs...maniacal laugh

Not so fast.

Improved Familiar doesn't give you just any ole Improved Familiar because you took the Feat. Your choices are limited by your arcane spellcaster level as you can see from the chart.

Furthermore, your Familiar uses your skill ranks, not your Class Skill bonuses or Feat bonuses, and its own Ability Scores when employing skills -- that would be UMD in this case.

So if you need your Familiar to use a Wand, it needs to:

1. Have hands to grasp and manipulate the Wand with
2. be able to beat a DC 20 UMD check (using the aforementioned rules)
3. and be able to understand your instructions somehow

In the end, it's the last one that's a real stickler. If you don't have levels of Sorcerer or Wizard, then the Familiar granted to you by Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is as if you were a level 1 Wizard... forever. So it can't communicate with or understand you (which rules out the monkey), and you don't qualify for any of the Improved Familiars.

So no, you can't use Eldritch Heritage to have a wand-whipping familiar unless you're taking levels in Sorcerer or some other class that grants a familiar.

[cartmanbeck]

Aunt Tony wrote:

If you don't have levels of Sorcerer or Wizard, then the Familiar granted to you by Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is as if you were a level 1 Wizard... forever. So it can't communicate with or understand you...

This is incorrect. This line: "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. " in Eldritch Heritage means that you are treated as having an effective wizard level for your familiar equal to your character level - 2.

[Kiinyan]

Eldritch Heritage wrote:

treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2

This is how you get imp familiar.

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Aunt Tony]

cartmanbeck wrote:

Aunt Tony wrote:

If you don't have levels of Sorcerer or Wizard, then the Familiar granted to you by Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is as if you were a level 1 Wizard... forever. So it can't communicate with or understand you...

This is incorrect. This line: "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. " in Eldritch Heritage means that you are treated as having an effective wizard level for your familiar equal to your character level - 2.

So what about Improved Familiar requiring that you have a certain number of Caster Levels to pick one of its options?

[fuzzyillogic]

3 levels of Horizon Walker Astral Plane dominance plus Dimensional X feat chain?
Expensive to accomplish, but not too traumatic and full BAB, for a non caster...

[Axebeard]

Nadalis wrote:

Can someone explain why dimensional agility won't work with the Teleportation school special ability. I understand that dimensional agility states "when casting dimension door" but the teleportation school mentions that you "teleport as if using dimension door." I feel the ability doesn't ans shouldn't state that you "cast dimension door" because it is an ability. Since your action acts like dimension door would it certainly qualify for the dimensional agility ability. I find it a little silly for us to expect a literal reading and expecting us to only use the teleportation school ability to qualify only if it read:

Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space by casting dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

It's just a YMMV situation. I, and many others, think it's fine to allow it to work. I even think it's RAW. I believe that the idea that it doesn't work comes from the fact that the devs came out and specifically said that it DOES work with some other ability, but didn't mention Shift. Just make sure you wait until wiz 7 and DD is on your spell list to take the feat.

It even makes sense logically. Shift works like Dimension Door. Your character can take actions after Dimension Door. Therefore, your character can take actions after Shift.

There is one valid concern, though. Once the wizard hits about level 10 or so (at which point things might have spiraled out of control already), it becomes a very powerful ability that can be used to pop around the battlefield 25 feet at a time. It takes away your swift action, which gets in the way of quickened spells, but being able to teleport out of grapple or the reach of a nasty foe to cast a spell or continue moving is an extremely strong ability.

It's possible that the devs have come out and specifically axed the combo, but I haven't been paying attention. Until they haven't, it's up for interpretation and table variation. Were I to hazard a guess, the majority of those who don't want it allowed do so, at root, for power reasons and then stake their claim on the fact that the feat doesn't specifically mention Shift. Power-wise it's a perfectly valid concern, though, but it's tough being called the DM who nukes things just because they're too strong.

[Nadalis]

Thanks Axebeard, I agree and I guess our group will continue to play with the shift + dimensional agility until we find it a problem. When I created my most recent character I created with escape from grappling in mind. On a related note, I liked the idea of making grappling more serious to casters but I feel that the DCs to cast a verbal (only) spell or even a silent verbal spell are a bit tough.

[kyrt-ryder]

Aunt Tony wrote:

cartmanbeck wrote:

Aunt Tony wrote:

If you don't have levels of Sorcerer or Wizard, then the Familiar granted to you by Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is as if you were a level 1 Wizard... forever. So it can't communicate with or understand you...

This is incorrect. This line: "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. " in Eldritch Heritage means that you are treated as having an effective wizard level for your familiar equal to your character level - 2.

So what about Improved Familiar requiring that you have a certain number of Caster Levels to pick one of its options?

I'm not sure about the Rules as Written here (it's hazy), but from where I'm standing the Rules as Makes Sense overwrites whatever your caster level is (in regards to having a familiar) with your level -2.

This includes being a full-classed Sorcerer of some bloodline other than Arcane, and taking Eldritch Heritage Arcane.

But that's just my personal logic talking.

[Aunt Tony]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Aunt Tony wrote:

cartmanbeck wrote:

Aunt Tony wrote:

If you don't have levels of Sorcerer or Wizard, then the Familiar granted to you by Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is as if you were a level 1 Wizard... forever. So it can't communicate with or understand you...

This is incorrect. This line: "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. " in Eldritch Heritage means that you are treated as having an effective wizard level for your familiar equal to your character level - 2.

So what about Improved Familiar requiring that you have a certain number of Caster Levels to pick one of its options?

I'm not sure about the Rules as Written here (it's hazy), but from where I'm standing the Rules as Makes Sense overwrites whatever your caster level is (in regards to having a familiar) with your level -2.

This includes being a full-classed Sorcerer of some bloodline other than Arcane, and taking Eldritch Heritage Arcane.

But that's just my personal logic talking.

I'm not sure how it makes sense to add in an entirely new clause that wasn't even implied by the RAW. Wishful thinking, maybe.

My personal logic says that if the rules don't say something -- then they don't say it! I.e., if the rules don't say that you count as having caster levels, then you just do not.

[Thalandar]

Aunt Tony wrote:

Thalandar wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Thalandar wrote:

Sleet Storm wrote:

This is all awfully complicated for the benefit.

The simple way:
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) then Improved Familiar.Give your Familiar a Wand of D Door.

Voila Free Action D Door for your Fighter.

He can even take all his action since the restriction only applies to the caster not to anyone the caster moves with them.

That's awesome

That IS awesome. For the price of one feat and not dumping charisma, you get a companion that can do spellcasting for you that goes far and beyond dimension door.

Dimension Door costs 420 gold per casting, for up to 680 feet of movement.

Jester's Jaunt would only carry you 30 feet, but it would also cost 315 gold per casting instead.

And now to turn the table on the PCs...maniacal laugh

Not so fast.

Improved Familiar doesn't give you just any ole Improved Familiar because you took the Feat. Your choices are limited by your arcane spellcaster level as you can see from the chart.

Furthermore, your Familiar uses your skill ranks, not your Class Skill bonuses or Feat bonuses, and its own Ability Scores when employing skills -- that would be UMD in this case.

So if you need your Familiar to use a Wand, it needs to:

1. Have hands to grasp and manipulate the Wand with
2. be able to beat a DC 20 UMD check (using the aforementioned rules)
3. and be able to understand your instructions somehow

In the end, it's the last one that's a real stickler. If you don't have levels of Sorcerer or Wizard, then the Familiar granted to you by Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is as if you were a level 1 Wizard... forever. So it can't communicate with or understand you...

Drat

[cartmanbeck]

Aunt Tony wrote:

cartmanbeck wrote:

Aunt Tony wrote:

If you don't have levels of Sorcerer or Wizard, then the Familiar granted to you by Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is as if you were a level 1 Wizard... forever. So it can't communicate with or understand you...

This is incorrect. This line: "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. " in Eldritch Heritage means that you are treated as having an effective wizard level for your familiar equal to your character level - 2.

So what about Improved Familiar requiring that you have a certain number of Caster Levels to pick one of its options?

This section: "treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2" means that FOR THE PURPOSES OF YOUR FAMILIAR ONLY, you are treated as having an arcane caster (Sorcerer) level of your character level - 2. That's how you get the Improved Familiar.