PFS Bard Advice


Advice


So I just had my first Society Game a few weeks ago I played one of the Iconics a Rogue. I was told about the 1st Level Rule so I decided to rebuild into a Bard to see how they handle. Here is what I have so far, the idea behind her is that I wanted a character who constantly would want and need to learn new Languages. I kind of want to go the traditional Bard route and do a bit of everything but in Combat I want to be competent in Melee.

Female Half-Elf Bard 1 Favoured Class +1 Bardic Perf. perday

Str 18 (+2)
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 08
Cha 14

Skill ranks
1 Knowledge (Local)
1 Linguistics
1 Perception
1 Perform (Oratory)
1 Profession (Courtesan)
1 Spellcraft
1 Use Magical Device

Feats
Skill Focus - Perform (oratory)
Arcane Strike

Traits
Having a hard time deciding here...

Languages
Common, Elven, Draconic, Varisian

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.

Sovereign Court

I don't like this at all, and you caught me on a "terrible, awful, no-good, very bad day." Let's break this down in order... Hmm..

If you want to go the Traditional Bard route, your main job is to support and buff the party. Playing Bardarian Smash isn't ideal with a vanilla/Archetypeless bard. There are some Archetypes for being a combat-oriented bard, and if you want to be a support melee-combat character, try Cleric! Focusing on learning languages? Play a Gnome with the alternative Racial traits of Gift of Tongues (APG) and Traveller Gnome (APG). Learn 2 languages per Linguistics rank and add +1 to the DC of your language-dependent spells (and playing a bard, that's a good portion of them.)

Even combat-oriented characters don't need to force an 18 STR at level 1. There's a huge trade-off for bumping it up that high, and a traditional bard can't afford to do that.

So, you want to play a half-elf melee bard?

Half-Elf Bard (Dawnflower Dervish Archetype)
Racial:
-Ability score: +2 Dex
-Skill Focus: Intimidate

Str 10
Dex 17 (Add 4th level bonus here)
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 14
Dawnflower Dervish is Dex-based, and quite fun. You'll be in combat, buffing yourself with Battle Dance or allies with your Bardic Performance. You don't NEED high Cha, since you probably won't be playing past 12th. You're not a primary caster, which means you won't be casting Grease, Hideous Laughter, or anything that will require a save form an enemy, so you can afford a lower Cha.

Favored Class: HP preferred, +1 Extra Performance isn't bad, you're a Bard and aren't starving for Skill Points
Deity: Sarenrae (required for Dawnflower Dervish)
Weapon: Scimitar (required to make Dawnflower Dervish work)
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Linguistics, Perform(Dance), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Escape Artist/Stealth*(or whatever else you want)

Let's talk feats. Arcane Strike sucks. It's not going to qualify you for anything good, and it's not worth taking as a feat because it REALLY doesn't do much. Blech. A lot of the feat chains here really don't pay off well unless you're a Fighter with their insane amount of feats. You won't reach the end of any "good" chains until 9th level, really..
So, if you want to go for a chain, go up the Shatter Defenses chain. But! We can't start the chain at 1st level, so let's take ANTAGONIZE! It's good for you because it will bring your enemies closer and you can use your move action to start your Dervish Dance instead of moving closer or charging. At 3rd take Weapon Focus, 5th take Dazzling Display. You can't take Shatter Defenses until 9th, but it's a good feat to try for eventually.

Suggested Traits, in no particular order:
-Maestro of the Society - for those extra rounds of performance! Or, put a Favored Class bonus in this.
-Flame of the Dawnflower - Who doesn't like fire?
-Reactionary - Yay initiative
-Dominator (Balkzen) - Unsure if society-allowed, kinda cheesy and un-fluffy but +2 Intimidate is fun and useful
*-Desert Shadow - Take Stealth instead of Escape Artist for this, not my first choice

Basically, Antagonize enemy, start up Battle Dance, and swing away. Very straightforward.
This is how I'd achieve what you're going for. I play mostly supportive bards, so I tend to go for the Control Bard route (spellcasting-focused, high DCs, etc) but this looks like a nice blend of both worlds, as long as you're wanting to buff the party and not disable the enemy - unless it's with your scimitar! :)
Most importantly, HAVE FUN!


arcane duelist is an interesting class, but for me if you want to go smashy smash bard go archaeologist. i rec against not buffing dex at all because you only have light armor prof.

Dark Archive

Here's my best PFS bard build, it gives +6/+6 +1d6 sonic as a swift action to all party members on the first round, to which he can cast a spell (haste) on top. As well, he buffs the fighters AC using bodyguard and works in tandem with him using a spear.

Aasimar bard build:
Aasimar(Angelkin variant w/ Truespeaker alternate trait)
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 16

1: Lingering song
2:
3: Flagbearer
4:
5: Combat reflexes
6:
7: Bodyguard
8:
9: Arcane Strike
10:
11: Discordant Voice
12:

Use Buckler/ w/ Flag + Longsword w/ weapon cords to cast at level 3, when you get the Banner of Ancient Kings put it on a spear and use that.

Traits: Adopted: Helpful Halfling: Aid other= +4
Reactionary: +2 Init

All favoured class ranks go into Aasimar alternate (+1/2 level for inspire courage)

Skills:
Swim 1 rank then Use Magic Device )
Perform (Oratory)
Climb 1 then Perform (Act)
Linguistics to rank 4 then Perform (Dance)
Perception
Spellcraft +1 rank in Disable Device at level 2, Sleight of Hand level 3 then back to spellcraft
Knowledge Local + others

Using the Aasimar favoured class bonus and Banner of Ancient Kings his Inspire Courage is +4/+4 swift action at level 9 (9 levels +4 Favoured class, +4 Banner of Ancient Kings), as opposed to 17, and the banner adds a further +2/+2. On top of this at level 11 Discordant voice adds +1d6 sonic damage as well. During combat he stays adjacent to the main fighter and buffs his AC by 4, 3 times per round using bodyguard(+7 AC with gloves of arcane striking, +9 with benevolent armour property). Make sure to take saving finale to buff allies saving throws and take advantage of your lingering song feat.

So the bard gives huge bonuses to attack and defense, while still having great skills and full bard spells. Oh, and all of these are swift actions or attacks of opportunity, so you can full attack at the same time should you wish using your two handed weapon and high strength.

BraveEarth wrote:
the idea behind her is that I wanted a character who constantly would want and need to learn new Languages.

It also fits your backstory, the Aasimar 'Truespeaker' trait means that the bard gets two languages for each rank in linguistics, you'll have tonnes of those in no time.


Going break this down -
Favoured Class +1 Bardic Perf. perday
Bard's don't really need any extra preformance. They get plenty as they level up. Go with either health or skill points.

Stats -
For a well rounded bard that's good at everything, master of none. You really want as many 12 and 14 in your stats as possible. You should have nothing lower then a 10.

Skills -
1 Profession (Courtesan)
I'm assuming you have this for roleplaying. As you could get away with grabbing another preformance in it's place (or another skill).

Feats -
Skill Focus - Perform (oratory)
Most half-elves grab perception for skill focus. It's the most used skill in Pathfinder.

Traits -
Lots of good ones to choose from. Know a number of Bards that take the one that allows them to have Disable Device as a trained skill.
(Top of the Advice forums is a sticky 'Guide to the Guides'. One of the guides posted there is a guide to traits. Take a look at that to help you pick a trait.)

Weapon -
Since you want to also help out in melee, I suggest you look at weapons with Reach. This will allow you to attack through a allies square and helps when in those pesky choke points.
Do not be afraid to use the Aid Other action during combat.


Yggdra wrote:


Even combat-oriented characters don't need to force an 18 STR at level 1. There's a huge trade-off for bumping it up that high, and a traditional bard can't afford to do that.

So, you want to play a half-elf melee bard?

Half-Elf Bard (Dawnflower Dervish Archetype)
Racial:
-Ability score: +2 Dex
-Skill Focus: Intimidate

Str 10
Dex 17 (Add 4th level bonus here)
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 14
Dawnflower Dervish is Dex-based, and quite fun. You'll be in combat, buffing yourself with Battle Dance or allies with your Bardic Performance. You don't NEED high Cha, since you probably won't be playing past 12th. You're not a primary caster, which means you won't be casting Grease, Hideous Laughter, or anything that will require a save form an enemy, so you can afford a lower Cha.

Favored Class: HP preferred, +1 Extra Performance isn't bad, you're a Bard and aren't starving for Skill Points
Deity: Sarenrae (required for Dawnflower Dervish)
Weapon: Scimitar (required to make Dawnflower Dervish work)
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Linguistics, Perform(Dance), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Escape Artist/Stealth*(or whatever else you want)

Let's talk feats. Arcane Strike sucks. It's not going to qualify you for anything good, and it's not worth taking as a feat because it REALLY doesn't do much....

I was thinking that the 18 was a bit much thank you for that. I don't like the Dawnflower Dervish as losing my free Knowledge rolls in a game where Knowledge is used a great deal doesn't strike so well to me. Plus losing Inspire Courage, Greatness, Heroics as party buffs doesn't jive well with me at all. As for Arcane Strike Overcoming DR seems to be a pretty nice use of a swift action that's why I like that feat.

Truesight wrote:

Here's my best PFS bard build, it gives +6/+6 +1d6 sonic as a swift action to all party members on the first round, to which he can cast a spell (haste) on top. As well, he buffs the fighters AC using bodyguard and works in tandem with him using a spear.

Aasimar bard build:

Using the Aasimar favoured class bonus and Banner of Ancient Kings his Inspire Courage is +4/+4 swift action at level 9 (9 levels +4 Favoured class, +4 Banner of Ancient Kings), as opposed to 17, and the banner adds a further +2/+2. On top of this at level 11 Discordant voice adds +1d6 sonic damage as well. During combat he stays adjacent to the main fighter and buffs his AC by 4, 3 times per round using bodyguard(+7 AC with gloves of arcane striking, +9 with benevolent armour property). Make sure to take saving finale to buff allies saving throws and take advantage of your lingering song feat.

So the bard gives huge bonuses to attack and defense, while still having great skills and full bard spells. Oh, and all of these are swift actions or attacks of opportunity, so you can full attack at the same time should you wish using your two handed weapon and high strength.
BraveEarth wrote:

the idea behind her is that I wanted a character who constantly would want and need to learn new Languages.

It also fits your backstory, the Aasimar 'Truespeaker' trait means that the bard gets two languages for each rank in linguistics, you'll have tonnes of those in no time.

I really would like the Aasimar I really would but Aasimar and many other races really aren't suited to learning a great many languages. That's why I chose Half-Elf they can learn any language Humans as well but I digress.

Also I should mention the weird placement of some of my ranks is more in preparation for Versatile Performance at the next level which I want to take advantage of.


Quickly - language restriction only applies to bonus languages from Intelligence - you can grab any language you want from ranks in Linguistics.


BraveEarth wrote:
Yggdra wrote:


Even combat-oriented characters don't need to force an 18 STR at level 1. There's a huge trade-off for bumping it up that high, and a traditional bard can't afford to do that.

So, you want to play a half-elf melee bard?

Half-Elf Bard (Dawnflower Dervish Archetype)
Racial:
-Ability score: +2 Dex
-Skill Focus: Intimidate

Str 10
Dex 17 (Add 4th level bonus here)
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 14
Dawnflower Dervish is Dex-based, and quite fun. You'll be in combat, buffing yourself with Battle Dance or allies with your Bardic Performance. You don't NEED high Cha, since you probably won't be playing past 12th. You're not a primary caster, which means you won't be casting Grease, Hideous Laughter, or anything that will require a save form an enemy, so you can afford a lower Cha.

Favored Class: HP preferred, +1 Extra Performance isn't bad, you're a Bard and aren't starving for Skill Points
Deity: Sarenrae (required for Dawnflower Dervish)
Weapon: Scimitar (required to make Dawnflower Dervish work)
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Linguistics, Perform(Dance), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Escape Artist/Stealth*(or whatever else you want)

Let's talk feats. Arcane Strike sucks. It's not going to qualify you for anything good, and it's not worth taking as a feat because it REALLY doesn't do much....

I was thinking that the 18 was a bit much thank you for that. I don't like the Dawnflower Dervish as losing my free Knowledge rolls in a game where Knowledge is used a great deal doesn't strike so well to me. Plus losing Inspire Courage, Greatness, Heroics as party buffs doesn't jive well with me at all. As for Arcane Strike Overcoming DR seems to be a pretty nice use of a swift action that's why I like that feat.

Truesight wrote:
Here's my best PFS bard build, it gives +6/+6 +1d6 sonic as a swift action to all party members on the first round, to which he can cast a spell (haste) on top. As well, he buffs the fighters AC using bodyguard and works in
...

Buying a 16 is not too much. It is the most common high stat for any class. Some people hate having any stat below 10. If you are not one of them then do not worry about it.


You're better off with ranks in linguistics. Learn all the human languages, then go for the monster ones.

And yes, 18 str is too much. Bards are jacks of all trades, you're better off with a lot of 14s.

Grand Lodge

I don't think this is going to work out. Bards are skill based characters and dumping Wisdom, Dexterity hurts your skill numbers. 18 Strength is too much. 10 Dexterity is too little.

The other thing I will caution you about in PFS is that Bards are expected to Inspire Courage. If you can't do that, then you may face issues with acceptance. This is more of an issue in a smaller gaming circle.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

sieylianna wrote:

I don't think this is going to work out. Bards are skill based characters and dumping Wisdom, Dexterity hurts your skill numbers. 18 Strength is too much. 10 Dexterity is too little.

The other thing I will caution you about in PFS is that Bards are expected to Inspire Courage. If you can't do that, then you may face issues with acceptance. This is more of an issue in a smaller gaming circle.

PFS is a great place to try things out and people can get overly worked up. If you want to play a bruiser bard, do it, and ignore those who complain about your build.

Also, frankly, bards have tons of ways to do their skills and some good skill options are not dex or wis based like knowledge and social skills which, to me, are the central bard skill strength (or can be).

The dawn dervish is a solid build, albeit pretty terrible at 1-2. At 3 it starts getting good pretty quickly.


John Spalding wrote:
sieylianna wrote:

I don't think this is going to work out. Bards are skill based characters and dumping Wisdom, Dexterity hurts your skill numbers. 18 Strength is too much. 10 Dexterity is too little.

The other thing I will caution you about in PFS is that Bards are expected to Inspire Courage. If you can't do that, then you may face issues with acceptance. This is more of an issue in a smaller gaming circle.

PFS is a great place to try things out and people can get overly worked up. If you want to play a bruiser bard, do it, and ignore those who complain about your build.

Also, frankly, bards have tons of ways to do their skills and some good skill options are not dex or wis based like knowledge and social skills which, to me, are the central bard skill strength (or can be).

The dawn dervish is a solid build, albeit pretty terrible at 1-2. At 3 it starts getting good pretty quickly.

Yeah play what you want to play. If someone is going to get in your grill because you have a normal str score for a melee character, then that is on them. Honestly 3 stat points is not much of a change but at level 1 1 to hit and 2 damage is pretty sigficant.


sieylianna wrote:


The other thing I will caution you about in PFS is that Bards are expected to Inspire Courage. If you can't do that, then you may face issues with acceptance. This is more of an issue in a smaller gaming circle.

Where did you see that I didn't like the idea of buffing the party with Inspire Courage? I had just said the opposite. And since continuing a performance is a Free action I don't see why I can't Melee and buff at the same time.


meh i have a detectivebard who does not have courage and no one has ever complained, and if they did i would tell them to rebuild their character as a bard.

It is PFS the whole point is you can play with whatever you want.


Truesight wrote:


Using the Aasimar favoured class bonus and Banner of Ancient Kings his Inspire Courage is +4/+4 swift action at level 9 (9 levels +4 Favoured class, +4 Banner of Ancient Kings), as opposed to 17, and the banner adds a further +2/+2.

Neither the Banner of Ancient Kings nor the Aasimar favored bonus applied to Inspire Courage affects the activation of a performance, they only increase the bonus granted by Inspire Courage. At level 9 you still need to spend a move action to activate Inspire Courage, but the bonus is determined as if you were level 17. You could activate it as a swift action at level 13 as normal.


The OP said he wanted to go the traditional bard route. Traditional bards don't have an 18 strength.

He's free to do whatever he likes with his character, but should realize that it's all about tradeoffs. More strength means less of something else.


rkraus2 wrote:

The OP said he wanted to go the traditional bard route. Traditional bards don't have an 18 strength.

He's free to do whatever he likes with his character, but should realize that it's all about tradeoffs. More strength means less of something else.

I agree with the intent and content of this. The main reason I put it so High is out of a fear that I wouldn't be able to hit as well and therefore with what I chose to contribute with. Other than initial opening spells and performance would be just taking up a square uselessly. I realize that now. I'm currently playjng around the Ability Scores now. I don't feel comfortable going less than 16 because of that fear but that does open up more Int which is always welcome.


For a melee bard I would pick any race with a +2 bonus to strength.

20 point buy:

Str 16+2 (10 points)
Dex 14 (5 points)
Con 14 (5 points)
Int 10 (0 points)
Wis 8 (-2 points)
Cha 12 (2 points)

Put your level ups in Charisma and you will never run into problems with being unable to cast your spells. You should be focusing on buffs, not charms and control spells. Spells like Heroism, Saving Finale, and (my personal favorite bard spell) Blistering Invective will increase your ability to hit or survive. Spells like Weaponwand and Bladed Dash can increase your combat versatility and maneuverability. If you ever find yourself just taking up a square, use your Aid Another.

With the low charisma you will definitely want to take Lingering Performance to triple your daily use of performances.

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