How much AC is too much at lv 1?


Advice


Hi all,

We're starting a campaign with level 1 characters and I'm looking for a little friendly advice. We are getting crazy high stats (roll 24d6, keep the highest 18 and assign three dice to each stat) as well as getting a bonus feat at first.

My concept is to play an Oread Ranger that uses a shield. The basic character sketch is a simple minded fellow that is extremely loyal to his friends but dislikes change. Regardless, with the Natural Armor alternate racial and Improved Shield Bash he has an AC of 21 at first level.

I'm worried that this will make things less enjoyable for the group. Would you recommend taking something else (Power Attack, TWF) so that on turns that he attacks he won't keep his shield bonus? At level 2 I'm opting for Shield Slam, so that would put off Improved Shield Bash to at least level 3 (still AC19 when attacking, 21 otherwise).

Thoughts?

PS: Breakdown of AC is Scale (+5), Dex (+3), Heavy Shield (+2), Natural Armor (+1)


You should be fine. The only person who is going to be bummed at your high AC is probably the GM... Although unless you keep at boosting AC, the GM will probably sing a new tune in a few levels.


A too-high AC is not just a problem for the GM. If the GM is sticking to the bestiary, then to get monsters who challenge that AC will mean they do more damage and hit the other party members more frequently. An unbalanced character is an unbalanced character and that has an impact on the game.

Now, having said that, the question here is whether an AC of 21 at level 1 is "unbalanced".

A reasonable AC for a well-built tank character at level 1 would be something like this:

Base AC 10
Dex 16 (+3 to AC)
Breastplate (+6 armor bonus)
Dodge feat (+1 to AC)
Shield (+1 to AC)

That's a 21 AC, and that's without any real cheese at all. If the breastplate is expensive, the party can pitch in to help the tank buy it.

I've seen higher ACs than 21. So don't sweat it.


Your GM's rules, he should handle it. Besides, an AC like that won't be so awesome in 3 levels.


I dunno. I find that a character with an obvious flaw in their stats (like a really low Charisma etc) tends to make for great roleplaying. For example, I am currently running a NPC goblin rogue who tells the biggest, most ludicrous lies all the time, and has a horribly low Charisma so his Bluff skill sucks rocks.


@Piccolo: I agree completely. I dropped some of the stats a bit (and Int a lot) to give him a 7 Intellect. And he wants to be a legendary blacksmith. Poor guy. I feel he's got a bit of a Forest Gump vibe to him.


Well have a halfling rogue with 18 dex and a chain shirt, ask the casters give him shield, shield of faith, and reduce person on them... That would be too much... not because you will never need it, but because you have spent more than half the party's resources to get there.


I had a character with exactly that much AC at lvl 1 in Pathfinder Society. I saved up, and I had masterwork full plate at level 2. She has really high AC, but I don't hit as hard as I would if I was two-handing. Also, fighter's don't have very good saves. Just those two facts make it completely balanced in my opinion, and the limited skill points also bugs me. It's good (I love playing that character) but I've never felt like it was that amazing, and now I've gotten her to level 5.

Scarab Sages

If the monsters need a natural 20 to hit, you have enough AC.

Until then, go for it. Just be prepared for encounters that don't care about AC.


Ive heard that if you want to have a really excellent AC, a rough number to aim for is your level+20. You want more at higher levels, and can't usually get that high at low levels... So what you have just appears to be achieving that crazy level anyway :)


Any how, 21 at lvl one is really good, but be prepared to deal with DM switching to targeting your weaker AC (touch in your case) or saves. But normal lvl one critters and mooks will hate you, a lot.


Greetings,

I thing that you're not considering a bunch of things.

First, I'd like to think the character creation as a blanket of fixed size (the adventure character creation points). With this limited blanked, you pull it the way you with to, trying to cover the parts (roles), that you wish for your character. For eg, if your character focus all of his skills, attributes and feats on defensive combat, it's quite probable that your character will be "weaker" in other aspects. That's the idea of roles in parties.

And, even with 21 AC, you can be outmatched by mind-effect speels, combat manovers, etc. So, you're not getting the big picture.

Personally, I rather versatile character. Even if they don't become the better of any role (combat, spell, skill, etc), they are reasonable with many of this roles (and make the game much funnier to me).

Sovereign Court

There are still touch attacks that'll challenge you, as well as combat maneuvers like trip (-4 to AC). A tanglefoot bag will mess with your day, and enemies can always flank or use aid another.

--Vrock, paper, scissors


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Based on Table 1-1 in the Bestiary, a typical CR 1 "High Attack" monster will have an attack bonus of +2 and a CR 1 "Low Attack" monster will have an attack bonus +1; a typical CR 2 "High Attack" monster will have an attack bonus of +4 and a CR 2 "Low Attack" monster will have an attack bonus of +3; at CR 3, the bonuses become +6 and +4. A typical CR 1 monster will hit an 21 AC about 10% or 5% of the time; a typical CR 2 monster will hit 20% or 15% of the time; a CR 3 monster would hit 30% or 20% of the time.

Considering that a moderately optimized 15-point buy tank fighter (Human, 16 Str (+2 race) and 15 Dex, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Falcata), Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting, four mirror armor, light spiked shield, falcata, javelins w/amenta) can start with an AC of 19, an AC of 21 for using a heavy shield, having a higher Dex, and starting with a natural armor bonus isn't that out of line.


I'm worried we're getting off base here. I'm not saying I want a super defense build or bragging that my character is invincible. I'm just wondering if an AC of 21 at first level could be problematic on the whole. It's for a casual group so I don't want it to cause a problem.


GrandReaper wrote:
I'm worried we're getting off base here. I'm not saying I want a super defense build or bragging that my character is invincible. I'm just wondering if an AC of 21 at first level could be problematic on the whole. It's for a casual group so I don't want it to cause a problem.

I will repeat myself. An AC of 21 is not that high at level 1. Even a rather pedestrian melee build should have an AC of 18 or 19, minus shield. All you need to get an AC of 20 is some sort of medium armor, a dex of 16, a shield and investing a single feat into dodge.

That's it.

So don't worry about a 21. You'll be leveling up quickly anyway and as you level up it will be more costly and difficult to keep your AC that much higher than your party members.

Heck, I've had wizards with mage armor who have an AC of 17... before casting shield which gets them to 21.


1st level fighter, dodge, shield focus +3 dex bonus breastplate and shield could get a 23 ac. if its human you still have one feat to burn. and thats just using the CRB. nothing broken there.


Grandreaper, a 21 AC at first level is fine if you are trying to be the party tank. And it sounds like that is what you want.

Remember that your 21 AC can be used to support other party members. Remember that the point of a tank is to draw enemy fire. Make sure you are moving into the thick of the enemy in order to draw those attacks of opportunity that your allies need to avoid to get into position. Meanwhile you get into a position so that your party rogue can flank. And you still get an attack at the end of your move.

If you can do these things then your AC is helping the party instead of just you. They will be quite happy that you have maxed your AC.

Peet


I wouldnt mind being/ seeing a cleric with a 20-21 ac.

There's nothing like mobile enemy and or ranged combatants thinking they are going to take out the back ranks and pick on some squishies only to find out that the cleric can only be hit with a 20.


btw Oread is just poop. It would never see play at my table as a PC race. Big dopey rock guy.... meh

Scarab Sages

GrandReaper wrote:
How much AC is too much at lv 1?

31 AC, if you only have 150 gold to spend?


Pendagast wrote:

1st level fighter, dodge, shield focus +3 dex bonus breastplate and shield could get a 23 ac. if its human you still have one feat to burn. and thats just using the CRB. nothing broken there.

Kobold give you +1 natural and +1 size. ;)

The Exchange

I would say it is not worth having AC 21 at level 1.

Buy other gear instead of the expensive armor. Alchemist fire/acid, a ranged weapon (sling works though), torches, camping gear, soap, bags, a pet, food, rum, flavor items.

As an oread I guess it might be hard to spin the background idea, but he surely has a hobby? Such as cooking, a musical instrument, reading, eating rare rocks, cultivating mold, carving, telling tall tales - spend some of the armor budget there.

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