I'm currently playing my first Magus. It's at level 6 now. First and second level were kind of painful but at level 3 I can quickly take down big bad evil guys as I'm favoring debuffing over damage and there are two barbarians in the party.
Blood Transcription has been pretty effective so far. It's a little creepy but Ive gotten 4 new spells in my spellbook from it. My favorite spell has been Frostbite and Frigid Touch. As a Dex Magus I've also been loving Cat's grace ever since I found a wand of it; Bonus to hit, damage AND AC!
Spells seem really scarce until I realized to not diversify. just pick your go-to spells and let the battlefield controllers handle the other stuff, or at least that's been working for me.
The lure of spell storing is the nova. 2 Intencified Shoocking grasp the same round. Not sure if a spell in a spell storing weapon would crit if the attack was a crit...
I see it as a once pr encounter ability - not sure if it's worth it.
I use it generally to store an Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp (requires Magical Lineage applied to SG) and then pop off my own Intensified SG modified by Empowered arcana.
At 10th level, being able to pop off the equivalent of a 30d6 attack (plus weapon damage, plus Forceful Strike if I want to do overkill) is pretty potent.
Keen is definitely worth it - although I've found that in many sessions, a Scabbard of Keen Edges would be sufficient.
Read that section again. The arms-reach bit applies to the Alertness feat, but NOT to the special ability, i.e. the skill or initiative bonus the familiar provides. For that, the familiar and the master simply need to be within 1 mile of each other
Hrm, you're absolutely right. And since I have Perception maxed out (I consider it one of the most useful skills in the game), a +3 in daylight is a pretty nice perk, even without the extra from Alertness.
I think I'm going to go with Familiar as my level 3 arcana. :)
I'm currently playing my first Magus. It's at level 6 now. First and second level were kind of painful but at level 3 I can quickly take down big bad evil guys as I'm favoring debuffing over damage and there are two barbarians in the party.
I hear you about the low levels. >.< Now that I'm level 4 and have spell recall, I'm hoping to bust out several more shocking grasps per day, so I'm hoping to see my damage improve.
Blood Transcription has been pretty effective so far. It's a little creepy but...
Yeeeeah. I have trouble envisioning my magus using Blood Transcription or Infernal Healing. He's just too much a good guy for it. :p Hopefully the campaign will drop a spellbook on me now and again to supplement the spelkls I learn while leveling.
As a Dex Magus I've also been loving Cat's grace ever since I found a wand of it; Bonus to hit, damage AND AC!
As a dex magus myself, I hope I'm as lucky! :D
Spells seem really scarce until I realized to not diversify. just pick your go-to spells and let the battlefield controllers handle the other stuff, or at least that's been working for me.
My group has a couple of clerics, but me and the bard are the only arcane spellcasters, so I plan on picking up a few control and blast spells as I level up. Black Tentacles and Intensified Fireball should help fill a niche that we mostly lack.
At 7th-level, I now plan on picking up
School transmutation (polymorph); Level alchemist 3, magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)
EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level (D)
This content was created for the Pathfinder rules by Paizo Publishing LLC and is part of the Pathfinder RPG product line.
DESCRIPTION
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the monstrous humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent. If the form you assume has the aquatic subtype, you gain the aquatic and amphibious subtypes.
Small monstrous humanoid: If the form you take is that of a Small monstrous humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Medium monstrous humanoid: If the form you take is that of a Medium monstrous humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.
...instead of Fly. It provides a slower flight speed, but it has the same duration, plus can provide darkvision, natural armor, and extra attacks at the same time (using a Popobala).
It just seems much more versatile, since if needed one could pick up low-light vision, a swim speed, etc.
Plus--important for a magus--you'd still be able to cast spells and wield your weapon and armor.
Lord Pendragon, I am not sure that I would go with a familiar as your 3ed level arcana. Rather, I would consider wand wielder. True Strike driven combat maneuvers are EXCEEDINGLY powerful - they generally don't fail... A wand of vanishing is pretty much as good as improved invisibility...
This is definitely good advice for magi in general, though for me in particular one of the reasons I've avoided Wand Wielder is more flavor than crunch. I just really like the image of my magus' fighting style involving switching between one- and two-handed grips, etc. So having a wand in his other hand doesn't quite work for him. :)
Have any other magi had experience with Monstrous Physique?
I keep thinking that finding a good small form for the bonus dex might be nice, but by going smaller you take a penalty on weapon size, so I'm not sure how worthwhile it is, except possibly at very high levels where the bonus to hit and AC would outweigh the weapon damage, versus creatures that are hard to hit and hit hard.
It might be possible to create a balanced archetype devoted to a two-handed weapon-wielding Magus, but you'd have to remove a hefty class feature or two to make it balanced, or perhaps levy a restriction or two on it.
For example, you might lose Spell Recall, and you could offset the fact that you don't have a free hand by replacing the somatic components of the spell with a complex weapon kata or dance, and require that you be wielding your weapon in order to cast (i.e., you cannot use hand gestures as a normal caster can).
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Found this link in a magus advice thread which is fantastic for a magus looking for good Monstrous Physique forms:
Speaking of forms, it occurs to me that a magus with UMD or Spell Blending could pick up polymorph...have any magi had good luck with the forms accessible through that?
Edit:
Hrm...
Pathfinder's version of Polymorph seems to merely combine a few of the various form spells, so no use there.
Guess the only other place to look for useful forms is Undead Form since there are a few unique undead abilities available...
So currently, my magus is slated to pick up Preferred Spell at 5th (next) level.
Originally it seemed like a great feat for a magus. Since I'm going to be casting a lot of Shocking Grasps, it would allow me to prepare other, more situational spells and then dump them for damage whenever needed.
But the more I think about it, the more I am wondering whether this is, in fact, a good magus feat. The reason for this is Spell Recall. Recalling a Shocking Grasp is always 1 pool point, since regardless of how much metamagic you slap on it, it remains a 1st-level spell.
However, if you use Preferred Spell to swap out, say, a 5th-level spell for a Quickened Shocking Grasp and later want to recall the spell in that slot, it's going to be a 5th-level spell, at the cost of 5 pool points.
Even at mid- to high-levels, pool points are not so plentiful that this seems like a good idea. My magus will have only 14 pool points by the time he can cast 5th-level spells, and that's with several bonuses to the pool and an unusually high int.
Does anyone have experience with this? How useful does Preferred Spell work out in practice? And if Preferred Spell isn't a good feat for a magus, what are some feats you've had the best results from in your magus play?
Speaking of feats, originally I had discounted Power Attack, since I'd usually be wielding a one-handed weapon in one hand. But against a high-AC foe, I'm wondering if Accurate Strike plus Power Attack might not be more effective than repeatedly missing trying to deliver Shocking Grasp...
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The future of the Magus better have more then one really good build. The class seems to lack the depth needed to be functionally interesting.
Archetypes can patch the mechanics of it, but a class rework would be better.
The class fluff/flavor seems off to me, but ill let that slide as it probably is fun to play.
A well-built non-archetype Magus can be an effective tank; it requires somewhat more conservative play than, say, a heavily-armored Fighter, simply because of the hit die difference, but generally there are tricks in the Magi's spell list that can avoid damage in the first place.
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maybe i should have emphasized "really good". i have no doubt a normal Magus is good.
to be more specific, does any magus build ignore Shocking Grasp?
You can build around Snowball for comparable burst DPR with a ranged option.
You could build around Frostbite for higher DPR than Shicking Grasp at higher level.
Although I can't seem to find them now, I have seen a number of 'battlefield controller' builds for Magus that don't really build around Shocking Grasp, or even dealing damage in general; they focus on maneuvers to trip up foes and quick movement with high AC versus provoked attakcs to eat enemy AoOs, and leave the damage-dealing to others.
Not true. If you prepared, say an Empowered Shocking Grasp, it's a third level spell, taking up a third level slot, despite the no change in the non-existent save DC, and you'd need three AP points to recall it.
I'm afraid you're the one who is incorrect. From the pfsrd: "Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot."
Other Magus builds.
Halfling sling magus
Whip-trip magus
Punchy debuff Magus (A build I REALLY want to play.)
Dimensional Dervish Magus (this one is tons of fun.)
Shield as your only weapon Magus.
The thing is many of these take more planing then the more common build and sometimes take longer to get off the ground or don't have as high burst damage. And well people just seem to like damage.
Not true. If you prepared, say an Empowered Shocking Grasp, it's a third level spell, taking up a third level slot, despite the no change in the non-existent save DC, and you'd need three AP points to recall it.I'm afraid you're the one who is incorrect. From the pfsrd: "Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot."
While I agree that by strict RAW this may be correct, I cannot believe this is RAI; from a balance perspective it would be a nightmare.
At 11th level, my Magus has 9 Arcane Points. This would allow me to prepare a single 3rd level spell slot for an Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp (assuming I have Magical Lineage applied) and have the capacity to cast the equivalent of 135d6 dice of damage in a single day from that one slot, leaving all of my other slots free to do other things*.
That doesn't even start to discuss how nasty this gets once you get to Maximize or Quicken. And it doesn't take into account pearls of power, which would likely function in the same manner if this were true.
All said, I'm going to start an FAQ thread to ask that this be clarified, so please feel free to stop by and click.
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At 11th level, my Magus has 9 Arcane Points. This would allow me to prepare a single 3rd level spell slot for an Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp (assuming I have Magical Lineage applied) and have the capacity to cast the equivalent of 135d6 dice of damage in a single day from that one slot, leaving all of my other slots free to do other things*.
How much extra damage per day does a barbarian get from Rage and his rage powers?
At 11th level, my Magus has 9 Arcane Points. This would allow me to prepare a single 3rd level spell slot for an Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp (assuming I have Magical Lineage applied) and have the capacity to cast the equivalent of 135d6 dice of damage in a single day from that one slot, leaving all of my other slots free to do other things*.How much extra damage per day does a barbarian get from Rage and his rage powers?
I'd guess it depends on the rage powers and build? I'm not that familiar with Barbarians.
If we were to do a fair comparison, then I'd also need to figure out what additional damage I could do on top of the 135d6; it would be substantial, since that's only based on a single 3rd level spell slot.
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Not true. If you prepared, say an Empowered Shocking Grasp, it's a third level spell, taking up a third level slot, despite the no change in the non-existent save DC, and you'd need three AP points to recall it.I'm afraid you're the one who is incorrect. From the pfsrd: "Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot."While I agree that by strict RAW this may be correct, I cannot believe this is RAI; from a balance perspective it would be a nightmare.
At 11th level, my Magus has 9 Arcane Points. This would allow me to prepare a single 3rd level spell slot for an Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp (assuming I have Magical Lineage applied) and have the capacity to cast the equivalent of 135d6 dice of damage in a single day from that one slot, leaving all of my other slots free to do other things*.
That doesn't even start to discuss how nasty this gets once you get to Maximize or Quicken. And it doesn't take into account pearls of power, which would likely function in the same manner if this were true.
All said, I'm going to start an FAQ thread to ask that this be clarified, so please feel free to stop by and click.
Already done, Xaratherus, adding all the other instances I could think off in which the difference between the spell original level and the modified level, so please stop by and hit the FAQ button.
At 11th level, my Magus has 9 Arcane Points. This would allow me to prepare a single 3rd level spell slot for an Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp (assuming I have Magical Lineage applied) and have the capacity to cast the equivalent of 135d6 dice of damage in a single day from that one slot, leaving all of my other slots free to do other things*.How much extra damage per day does a barbarian get from Rage and his rage powers?
As I pointed out in the linked thread, if it work for the way Lord Pendragon say for Spell Recall it should work the same way for the Pearls of power.
Maybe he is right, but I think that a FAQ getting a more detailed explanation about metamagiched spells and the difference between the original level and the modified level would be useful.
Done, thanks Diego.
For the third level Arcana, I have thought about grabbing Close Range. this would allow the use of the Cantrip: Ray of Frost with the spell strike feature. Allowing the magus to deal a extra 1d3 damage with that attack.
I probably would have gone with that arcana if the Magus wasn't allowed the Arcane Mark trick for attacking.
I second this. My normal attack routine for my 4th level Magus is sword swing + sword swing with acid spalsh. At lower levels, an extra d3 every round can still matter.
For PURPOSES RELATING TO DC, SPELL RESISTANCE ANs ALL THAT STUFF. When that passage was written, Magi and Arcane Pool Points did not exist. Arcane Pool points are spent on a one to one basis to replenish the spell slot. If you're replenishing a 3rd level spell slot than it's 3 points. The latter specific trumps the general.
From the pfsrd: "At 4th level, the magus learns to use his arcane pool to recall spells he has already cast. With a swift action he can recall any single magus spell that he has already prepared and cast that day by expending a number of points from his arcane pool equal to the spell’s level (minimum 1)"
If only the rules actually said what you want them to, eh? :)
Not to re-jack the thread from the thread-jack, but...
I think I've decided to dump Preferred Spell. It doesn't seem to play well with Spell Recall. Instead I've moved up a couple metamagics and picked up Critical Focus, which, given the magus' dependence on critical hits, seems extremely beneficial.
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For PURPOSES RELATING TO DC, SPELL RESISTANCE ANs ALL THAT STUFF. When that passage was written, Magi and Arcane Pool Points did not exist. Arcane Pool points are spent on a one to one basis to replenish the spell slot. If you're replenishing a 3rd level spell slot than it's 3 points. The latter specific trumps the general.From the pfsrd: "At 4th level, the magus learns to use his arcane pool to recall spells he has already cast. With a swift action he can recall any single magus spell that he has already prepared and cast that day by expending a number of points from his arcane pool equal to the spell’s level (minimum 1)"
If only the rules actually said what you want them to, eh? :)
We can play that game too:
"A magus spell"So, where is intensified shocking grasp in the magus spell list?
It is not a magus spell, it is a metamagiched magus spell. so not available for spell recall.
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A metamagicked spell is a spell, it's just in most ways treated like a spell of the original spell's level. You can make a scroll of it, etc.
Regarding using Recall to recover things on the cheap, it uses the same principle as a Lesser Metamagic Rod on a Empowered Fireball and that's all in the CRB.
Honestly, I don't know what the intent here is. You may find that silly of me to say, but this does make it so that your metamagic feats and such can be more useful with rods than someone using rods alone. Granted, it also makes rods better.
It is a spell but it isn't a spell on the magus list.
As Lord Pendragon is arguing that what matter is the strictest reading of the text, the strictest reading of the text don't leave room to include spells modified by metamagic feats.
Diego, I am not advocating a strict anything, merely what's right there. I think at this point we merely need to agree to disagree, okay? I'd like to keep this thread about magus tactics/strategies/experiences/etc. and not bog it down with an argument over metamagic. Until the FAQ takes up the question you can play your way and I'll play mine.
That aside, are there any magi out there with thoughts? I'm thinking Critical Focus is a solid investment, given that the magus is so dependent on them for serious damage.
Also, I'm not seeing why Frostbite would be more damage than Shocking Grasp at higher levels...
On an unrelated note, how do you guys handle your pearls of power? My wizards usually have them on a necklace, but I'm thinking my magus will start having them encrusted on the stock of his gunblade. :)
Where are all my fellow magi? >.>
I like to multiclass with my magus. Start with Barbarian or Ranger, for a few more hit points and other goodies. I like Ranger1/Magus5/Fighter1/Magus2/Ranger1/Magus1/Eldritch Kight9
You give up a bit of magic but I think you get a lot in turn.
Starting stats for the build: Str 15+2race, con14, Dex15, Int14, Wis10, Cha 7
Lv4 Str+1, Lv8 Dex+1, all other ability boost form level go into Str.
With a +1 Long Bow just add Shocking and Frost with your arcane pool to be doing 1d8+2d6 per an arrow. That is not bad for a back up weapon.
At level 9 use the ranger bonus feat to get Rapid shot. With this you fix in part the problem with needing range attack fire power.
Also, I'm not seeing why Frostbite would be more damage than Shocking Grasp at higher levels...)
Well it's a little more complicated than just straight up doing more damage, both spells have their niche. In terms of raw damage in a vacuum Frostbite is straight up better across the board. It's (1d6+1/lvl)level with no cap (in other words theoretically 20d6+400 at level 20), on top of that each hit inflicts fatigue, as well as entangle provided you are using the same shenanigans to get rime that a SG Magus would be using to get intensify. There are some significant downsides though, the main one is that since it gets applied 1d6+lvl per attack you usually won't see much advantage with it unless you have a significant number of natural attacks. The other major disadvantage is the fact that it is nonlethal undead and constructs are completely immune on top of the cold resistant/immune crowd.
Shocking Grasp on the other hand while being less efficient will usually give you a higher dpr and more burst at low to mid levels, and the extra accuracy against certain targets can be pretty handy.
*nod* I actually learned a lot about the application of Frostbite from another recent thread. I'm definitely now going to pick it up. It seems like it'd be very effective in conjunction with Monstrous Physique which provides the natural attacks you mentioned.
I think my magus may still go with Shocking Grasp as his man damage tactic, however I'm now torn between Frostbite +natural attacks, or a scroll of Flame Blade as an alternative versus electricity-immune foes. Both seem fun.
I'm also thinking that Frostbite +natural attacks may work out better when under the effects of Haste since it doesn't grant the extra attack to the spell combat special action the way it does to a full attack action.
provided you are using the same shenanigans to get rime that a SG Magus would be using to get intensify.
What's an "SG magus"?
My build has Intensify currently in it, though I don't recall having needed to use any shenanigans to get it...is there a rules issue with magi and Intensify spell?
The math is pretty straightforward. A given Shocking Grasp spell does xd6, where x is caster level (leaving aside empower, intensify, etc.) and capped at 5. A given Frostbite spell does X attacks at 1d6+X... Which works out to Xd6+X^2, and X is not capped...per casting, Xd6+X^2>Xd6, even without the cap on X for the shocking grasp spell. If you assume your fights will be big enough to get all the attacks from a given Frostbite spell in ...
*nod* There's another recent thread that spelled it out, though not quite as neatly as you have.
Hrm. My original thought had me using Monstrous Physique to take on a form with five natural attacks, plus his sword attack from BAB, but the fact that using his sword makes all the natural attacks secondary will likely be a big hit to dpr merely due to the reduced accuracy.
I'm starting to think that perhaps the gargoyle, with four primary attacks and without using his sword, might be a more efficient means of Frostbite delivery...
Then again, using only natural attacks completely negates the advantage of being able to enhance his weapon through his arcane pool. Also, not delivering touch attacks through his sword means he also gives up the increased crit range of his weapon.
Hrm...
provided you are using the same shenanigans to get rime that a SG Magus would be using to get intensify.What's an "SG magus"?
My build has Intensify currently in it, though I don't recall having needed to use any shenanigans to get it...is there a rules issue with magi and Intensify spell?
By SG Magus I meant one focused on shocking grasp, and I didn't really mean shenanigans in terms of rules issues, I just think it is kind of lame that taking Magical Lineage and/or Wayang Spell Hunter is pretty much mandatory for Magi... Poor word choice on my part.
By SG Magus I meant one focused on shocking grasp,
Ah, I see. I should have picked up the abbreviation I guess, but I haven't seen a lot of SG vs FB magus threads, actually. Usually it's Dex vs Str magi.
and I didn't really mean shenanigans in terms of rules issues, I just think it is kind of lame that taking Magical Lineage and/or Wayang Spell Hunter is pretty much mandatory for Magi... Poor word choice on my part.
I see where you're coming from, though it doesn't bother me too much. I think of it as the same as a fighter taking Power Attack or a rogue picking up TWF. There are some feats that synergize so well with a class' kit that everyone takes them. So long as there's plenty of other stuff to differentiate different magi, it's all good. :)
Personally I find Magical Lineage and/or Wayang Spell Hunter a little tiring specifically because they're traits instead of feats - not because they change gameplay but because of their impact on roleplaying.
Traits are meant to be minor bonuses that reflect your upbringing and previous life, and encourage building a story character background. For instance if your character used to be a sailor then it makes sense to take traits that improve swimming, profession: sailor, and so on.
However if one trait is overwhelmingly better than others for a specific class then that actually stifles story background diversity instead of encouraging it, since the player more than likely bends over backwards to make the trait fit his story.
For instance more or less every single magus out there has a parent 'who not only used metamagic often, but also developed many magical items and perhaps even a new spell or two' - the description for Magical Lineage.
This is a problem if the character's original story was that his parents were farmers.
This is however a problem with traits in general, not just these two traits. The traits that allow Perception and Use Magic Device as class skills are also very, very popular. And it's always interesting to see an anti-paladin who spent some time in the city guard or a superstitious barbarian who kept sneaking into his dad's laboratory to tinker with spell components...
Of course you can ignore the description of the trait and/or house-rule this however you want, but I still find it a little jarring.
All that said, this is probably not the place to discuss the perceived shortcomings of the trait system - consider my side rant over and please continue discussing the magus :)