PFO has the potential to really break out of the mold that Wow created and that pretty much every other game company has tried to follow. If they can pull off creating an Eve type (sandbox) MMO within the Pathfinder universe, people are going to sit up and take notice. It won't be the Wow killer that people have been waiting for, but they are wisely not even trying to go there. If they can achieve most of the objectives that they have discussed it'll generate a LOT of buzz and players who start early and already have settlements and organization when the game is released will be waaaay ahead of the pack. I look forward to that!
Goblin Squad Member
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It won't be the Wow killer that people have been waiting for...
Agreed. I would go so far as to say nothing ever will be. WoW is going to slowly bleed to death as people lose interest in it over a VERY, VERY, long time. It's already past it's peak from what I understand but I doubt it will entirely disappear for decades.
I don't think one MMO will ever come to dominate the market in the fashion WoW has ever again though. Just like no game, or even style of game, dominates the single player market.
The future of MMOs is going to be many different MMOs, each with their own loyal fanbase.
The key to success for an MMO in the future is not to cater to the public in general but to make a game that appeals to a large enough niche to sustain it.
Goblinworks shows it is probably up to this task by implementing things like the EVE skill training system, and Open World PVP. Are those the most popular models out there? No. Is there a decent sized niche that really supports them? Yes.
Goblinworks is making a very unique game that I expect to be a fair bit different than even the other sandboxes we will see released in the near future. Will it achieve WoW level success? No. No MMO will do that ever again. Will it acheive EVE level success? Maybe. Maybe it will do even better.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Goblinworks has a lot of crazy promises to make. Now, there are games where this succeeded (Dishonored) or failed (Two Worlds).
Here's to hoping they succeed.
One of the problems with mmorpgs is that they are dependent on massively-muliplayer design and require a lot of players to a) enjoy the game b) continue enjoying it, substantially longer/more hours than other games c) get along with each other!
Namely creating a sustained community of gamers who elevate the game design. So it's not enough just to create a great game with great features. A lot of mmorpgs end up being financially successful but end up equally being disappointing to an equally large number of players.
My problem with some recent mmorpgs is: a) They attempt to cater to too many different people (they have to due to high cost and risk) b) They are not very good at creating an online game community and are relatively short-term enjoyment like any other genre of games with sometimes more expense and more online anti-social/negative elements to put up with.
This blog article explains where I prefer to see mmorpgs and potentially PFO aim at: Market Segmentation
I use a scale of 1-10.
10 means a player loves your game. 1 means he hates it.
All users buy a game if they give it at least a rating of 5/10.
All users pay the same price when they buy the game.
"User benefit" on a scale 1-10 of different users depending on design option:
Option: A | B
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User 1: 9 | 5
User 2: 8 | 5
User 3: 9 | 5
User 4: 2 | 5
User 5: 1 | 5
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Sum : 29 | 25
Total benefit
Option A: 9+8+9+2+1=29
Option B: 5+5+5+5+5=25
To maximize aggregate user benefit you would have to chose option A, but at option B you sell the game 5 times. At option A you only sell it 3 times.
Substract costs, and your profit at option B is much, much higher than at option A.
That is why the number of sold items says nothing about quality of the product! This explains why Hollywood blockbusters make the most money, although nobody sane would argue that they are the best movies possible. This is why WoW is just fun enough to occasionally resubscribe. That is the reason all Star Trek movies only appeal to the non-fans.
Player 1-3 would absolutely love a game developed according to option A - they will never get it.
Only way would be to make (allow !) consumers to pay more. But that is a tricky problem; and don't start talking about item shops!
My suggestion is market segmentation:
It would not cost much to take e.g. the WoW engine and change a few rules. Create different MMOs for different players.
Give the market a choice!
=
So I hope PFO is not everything to everyone, but something special to fewer people - but enough of those to make it a sustainable and enjoyable community of like-minded players. The solution provided is not necessarily the right one, but crowdforging might just turn out to be a really good idea, in the end.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To me the game system itself has usely been just a source of inspiration, the more rules and stuff you add the more some players will loose focus and become "rule" addicts, always trying to find that special "edge". In my opinion the difference between a good and a bad game is the DM's knowledge and experience, the ability to understand the individual player need and source for inspiration and what makes them get excited. Personally I really enjoy and reward players thinking outside the box, so basicly you make a framework for them to play with, and hope they do something crazy. Only stopper would be a DM or a game framework restricting creativity and innovation.
Looking back at what I write I hope it make some sense lol.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It may work if they can find the right talent. Fifteen positions open last I looked, including PVE Game designer.
Of note: Gaspowered Games in Redmond has reportedly laid off their talent, so maybe GW can pick them up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With easy internet searching, a games success these days is as much about user support as anything to do with the game itself. It only takes a few disappointed disgruntled users spamming forums to seriously undermine a game. On the other hand an optimistic positive user community prepared to help the devs work through issues is a huge benefit and will draw in new players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Isn't it truth.
If it isn't already happening we will eventually discover that some forum users are professionals in the hire of contractors who labor in the interests of competing companies.
I've been thinking it is already happening for about three years in various businesses. Politics for one. MMOs for another.
Talk about Byzantine... Byzantium's political chicanery was probably child's play compare with what we have been suffering... but I must lleave off my social discontent: These are not the forum for such matters... we should play here and rest from all of that while we still can.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think to break into that business you just need to get to know some of the more rabid forumites on websites like Washington Post. Once you find out which lobbies they are working for as they post all day and night attempting to sway the readership this way or that, then fire off some resumes to K street. I would not be a bit surprised if you found success.
Social engineering: it ain't just phishing any mo'
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am hoping that they take some of the best elements from the MMOs out there and roll them up into one.
1. Sandbox, where the character is the end game. That is what sold me on PFO, and it comes from EvE Online.
2. Player Economy.... EvE
3. Melee Combat from Age of Conan would be great
4. Crafting and Player housing and Settlements from SWG
5. PVE combat leading to a hex turning into a PvP zone, like in PotBS.
6. Character modeling, creation, from EvE.
These are just a few....
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am hoping that they take some of the best elements from the MMOs out there and roll them up into one.
1. Sandbox, where the character is the end game. That is what sold me on PFO, and it comes from EvE Online.
2. Player Economy.... EvE
3. Melee Combat from Age of Conan would be great
4. Crafting and Player housing and Settlements from SWG
5. PVE combat leading to a hex turning into a PvP zone, like in PotBS.
6. Character modeling, creation, from EvE.
These are just a few....
Like minds man..like minds.
Good list brah.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am hoping that they take some of the best elements from the MMOs out there and roll them up into one.
1. Sandbox, where the character is the end game. That is what sold me on PFO, and it comes from EvE Online.
2. Player Economy.... EvE
3. Melee Combat from Age of Conan would be great
4. Crafting and Player housing and Settlements from SWG
5. PVE combat leading to a hex turning into a PvP zone, like in PotBS.
6. Character modeling, creation, from EvE.
These are just a few....
I have played none of those games, but started to watch and read a lot about EVE. And the character generation from EVE looks amazing.
The combat from Age of Conan looked, quite complicated, but it was a Youtube video.... Actually my brother bought the game on launch, played for a day and then never touched it again.When it comes to things I would like to see from other games, well I have to mention WOW.
So what did they do right, that I would like to see:
1. A good starter experience, the game hooks you within 5 minutes. Abilities are introduced slowly, and it doesn't feel like a tutorial.
2. No pay to win micro transactions, blizzard may tempt you with shiny mounts and useless pets, but nothing you can buy has a real in game effect.
3. Customizable AI with the option to use add-ons to configure various things to your personal preference.
What I don't want to see:
1. Don't punish players for not playing every day. Real life is more important, than doing 25 daily quest, daily heroic and other chores every day, for several characters....
2. Don't prevent me from talking to other players (horde/alliance language barrier), they might after all not be that horrible.
3. Don't force me to use systems like an auction house.
4. Don't make me use the mail to transfer items between my characters
5.
From what I have read about Pathfinder Online most of these should not be a problem.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have played none of those games, but started to watch and read a lot about EVE. And the character generation from EVE looks amazing.
The combat from Age of Conan looked, quite complicated, but it was a Youtube video.... Actually my brother bought the game on launch, played for a day and then never touched it again.When it comes to things I would like to see from other games, well I have to mention WOW.
So what did they do right, that I would like to see:1. A good starter experience, the game hooks you within 5 minutes. Abilities are introduced slowly, and it doesn't feel like a tutorial.
2. No pay to win micro transactions, blizzard may tempt you with shiny mounts and useless pets, but nothing you can buy has a real in game effect.
3. Customizable AI with the option to use add-ons to configure various things to your personal preference.What I don't want to see:
1. Don't punish players for not playing every day. Real life is more important, than doing 25 daily quest, daily heroic and other chores every day, for several characters....
2. Don't prevent me from talking to other players (horde/alliance language barrier), they might after all not be that horrible.
3. Don't force me to use systems like an auction house.
4. Don't make me use the mail to transfer items between my characters
5.
From what I have read about Pathfinder Online most of these should not be a problem.
Too much advantage from micro-transactions and/or online play time can be a serious issue.
I played one of those empire building RTS style games a few years back where micro-transactions had a large effect and could stack. Also the nature of the game was such that even when offline you could be attacked and virtually taken out of the game, even after 6 months or more of building up.
This particular 30,000 player server became virtually dominated by a single unfortunate individual who had been paralyzed in a car accident and received millions in compensation. People estimated he spent upwards of $20,000 on his game and he was online 24/7. I have every sympathy for the individual in question, but he really did not make the game fun to play for anyone else.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have played none of those games, but started to watch and read a lot about EVE. And the character generation from EVE looks amazing.
It is pretty good, unfortunately even with all the available choices it seems that 75% of characters are either glowering bald guys or women with giant racks wearing tank tops.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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There was a webcomic about that, and how it was cheaper, but I forgot.
Imply and ye shall receive:
XKCD|
Goblin Squad Member
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I have played none of those games, but started to watch and read a lot about EVE. And the character generation from EVE looks amazing.
The combat from Age of Conan looked, quite complicated, but it was a Youtube video.... Actually my brother bought the game on launch, played for a day and then never touched it again.When it comes to things I would like to see from other games, well I have to mention WOW.
So what did they do right, that I would like to see:1. A good starter experience, the game hooks you within 5 minutes. Abilities are introduced slowly, and it doesn't feel like a tutorial.
2. No pay to win micro transactions, blizzard may tempt you with shiny mounts and useless pets, but nothing you can buy has a real in game effect.
3. Customizable AI with the option to use add-ons to configure various things to your personal preference.What I don't want to see:
1. Don't punish players for not playing every day. Real life is more important, than doing 25 daily quest, daily heroic and other chores every day, for several characters....
2. Don't prevent me from talking to other players (horde/alliance language barrier), they might after all not be that horrible.
3. Don't force me to use systems like an auction house.
4. Don't make me use the mail to transfer items between my characters
5.
From what I have read about Pathfinder Online most of these should not be a problem.Too much advantage from micro-transactions and/or online play time can be a serious issue.
I played one of those empire building RTS style games a few years back where micro-transactions had a large effect and could stack. Also the nature of the game was such that even when offline you could be attacked and virtually taken out of the game, even after 6 months or more of building up.
This particular 30,000 player server became virtually dominated by a single unfortunate individual who had been paralyzed in a car accident and received millions in compensation. People...
Microtransactions can certainly kill a game, and I have read a bit about the way EVE did the whole PLEX thing. Not sure this would work with Pathfinder Online. I hope they will offer lots of optional ways to customize your character, maybe something like additional races, or other shiny stuff. A lot of gamers love shiny stuff. I am quite positive that the Goblinworks team understands their audience.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is pretty good, unfortunately even with all the available choices it seems that 75% of characters are either glowering bald guys or women with giant racks wearing tank tops.
I have played none of those games, but started to watch and read a lot about EVE. And the character generation from EVE looks amazing.
I could be wrong, but did they introduce a way for others to actually interact with your character yet? I though you could only walk in your own ship.
If course this is space and with zero G, the size of giant racks knows no limits. Seriously if you want to have you character look like that, more power to you. There is a rather good reason, why I always played female characters in WOW (other than the huge arms the males have)they are nice to look at.Of course with Pathfinder Online, I expect to see a lot of different characters (and if scars and tattoos are an option – that would be awesome) even considering the fact that we will see plenty of Gandalf cosplayers.