The Cost:
Well - the rules are unclear. Chars don't really know about HD.
So you could say - just pay the price, no qustions asked - that's the easy way.
Or if you could just do the guess thing - in which case - UMD and blood money (magus/wizard spell) would get around it.
But if the char should have some idea/some chance of guessing it - perhaps a sense motive check while the giant was alive, a knowledge (nature)check or a knowledge arcane/religion check - other necromancers would have encountered the problem - written down their findings - so you should be able to reseach it.
The "base creature"
"Hit Dice: A skeleton drops any HD gained from class levels and changes racial HD to d8s. Creatures without racial HD are treated as if they have 1 racial HD."
- yes you were correct to drop the ranger levels
My character obviously can't know what the HD of monsters are
Why not? It's a simple Knowledge check. You can also use the Sculpt Corpse spell and create a body to your own specifications.
If I try to animate something above my hd limit, does the spell still use up the material component?
No, I don't think so. The spell should simply fail to have any effect.
What if I try to animate something that is within my HD limit, but my gem isn't valuable enough?
The spell fails.
What if its to big?
Size is irrelevant, only the value matters.
I, thus, ended up using 1000gp to animate a zombie that could have been made with a gem worth 300 gp. Is this how it should work RAW?
Yup. The material component is "an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead". And material components are destroyed in the casting of the spell, so it's all gone - no refunds.
we assumed, btw, that these levels didn't count as HD since he looses them as a zombie, it didn't really matter now since I used a gem that could create a 20 hd creature, but for future reference, were we right in this assumption?
You were correct.
What, exactly is ment by "base creature" here? Would that be the entry in the monster manual, or the actual monster I animated, IE: Would it keep all martial profencies (that it had since it used to be a ranger) or does it only get to keep the great club profiency (from the bestiary)?
The latter. Who the corpse was in life is irrelevant, only what it was matters.
And what about the ability to throw stones? I'm not sure if that should count as "natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature" or "extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks." (that it gets to keep) or "special attacks" that is looses.
It's a "special attack", which skeletons and zombies do not retain.
For future reference:
The Skeleton template
The Zombie template
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I personally would not charge the necromancer several times the proper "value" of the undead due to uncertainty about HD. I don't think that RAW specifies one way or another, but Animate Dead's material component seems to be balanced based on the idea that you are paying 25gp per HD of the undead creature. If this is the case, it isn't really fair to charge over three times that amount (1000gp for a 12-HD undead) due to poor guessing on HD value. Thematically:
If the spell fails due to insufficient value of the MC, the MC does not necessarily have to be consumed.
If the MC is more than sufficient, the gem could shatter, leaving behind some or all of the excess value in onyx shards (whereas a gem worth the correct amount would be reduced to valueless slivers).
EDIT: Or at least give relatively easy knowledge checks to get a close estimate of the needed value.
From the Soul Bind spell:
The focus for this spell is a black sapphire of at least 1,000 gp value for every HD possessed by the creature whose soul is to be bound. If the gem is not valuable enough, it shatters when the binding is attempted. (While creatures have no concept of level or HD as such, the value of the gem needed to trap an individual can be researched.)
If you can research a creatures hit die or level for Soul Bind, you should be able to do the same for Animate Dead (or any other spell where it matters).
You wouldn't be ablt to find out "This giant has X hit dice.", but you should be able to find out "A black onyx gem worth at least Y gp should be enough to animate the corpse."
Anyone can wear armour; lacking proficiencies merely imposes penalties. Skeletons and zombies retain weapon proficiencies of the base creature, but most 0 HD beings don't have any.
Oddly enough, the monster entry for the Medium Skeleton seems to have no penalties whatsoever for it's lack of weapon and armour proficiencies - only the fact that they're broken has been incorporated into its stats.
"A cunning that allows them to wield weapons and wear armor" is an awkward phrase. I guess its meant to convey the fact that mindless undead are not animals without actually giving them any proficiencies.
I don't think you overlooked anything, I think the game designers did. The Human Skeleton as presented in the Bestiary should have a -4 penalty to its attacks for not being proficient with its weapon, and another -2 penalty for lacking armour proficiency.
RAI - my guess would be that if you kill and raise a ranger giant who used a greatsword and a long bow while he lived - the skeleton would remember how to use them...
But RAW - you need to use races that come with some sort of weapon prof.
Like Orcs and orc weapons... or just use the claws/slam the undeads tend to get...
I think it's fascinating that there's an interpretation for "retains weapon proficiencies" that involves removing the creature's proficiency with weapons.
Which interpretation would that be, then?
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I suspect this is what Jonathon is referring to;
A skeleton retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, except for attacks that can't work without flesh.
However the only proficiency listed under the *base* creature is "Martial Weapon Proficiency (greatclub)", the other proficiencies in this case were granted by class levels.
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Skeletons and zombies don't suffer non-proficiency penalties for weapons and armor due to their 'creepy cunning'. Which might want to be errata'd into an actual thing.
Rock Throwing, Rend, Constrict, Grab, and many more abilities are RETAINED by the creature when they become undead versions. These are clearly spelled out as (Ex) abilities, and do not rely on magic or proficiency to function. Skeletal wolves trip when they bite, and skeletal T-Rexes can swallow you whole.
I might not make people cut their way out of a skeletal T-Rex though. :D
Skeletons and zombies don't suffer non-proficiency penalties for weapons and armor due to their 'creepy cunning'. Which might want to be errata'd into an actual thing.
Yes, the current situation is throwing enough "curve-balls" as it is. And Skeletons and Zombies are among the most basic monsters of the game.
Rock Throwing, Rend, Constrict, Grab, and many more abilities are RETAINED by the creature when they become undead versions. These are clearly spelled out as (Ex) abilities, and do not rely on magic or proficiency to function.I beg to differ.
It uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Special Attacks: A skeleton retains none of the base creature's special attacks.
Rock Throwing is marked as a "special attack", and so it's lost in the transition.