First of all I am not a english native-speaker so this thread will need all of your sense-motive skills to understand what I am tring to say, thanks for your efforts.
Warning! the following paragraph is all babble, but the next has some content so you can skip it if you like.
I have been reading a lot about parties facing lonely powerful monsters/npcs, in a Boss battle style, and every thread have always reached the same conclution, or the monster is Opa-gangbang styled by the PJs and dies a horribly forgetable death or the creature is so many levels above the party that everything ends in a cheatful TPK. Then in the same thread somebody somewhere says, 'Never throw monsters alone for the system does not favor them...' And I agree... the system does not favor them... but should that mean that we CAN'T have them? I say NO!... Solo Bosses are a great tool to tell a story.To have a NPC that can be a threat all by himself, proving to be an exiting challenge, hard to beat, but beatable. No legendary Boss Monster should be afraid of being alone! That's what I say...no ancient Dragon should need minions to be feared.
And thats how I get to the point, I have made 2 template-like house rules for Bosses and I want to hear what do you think about them, what would you do to make it more balanced or any critisism you might have.
First the BIG BAD BOSS (BBB)
The BBB is a monster, larger in size than the party's characters that in order to die, all its parts need to be destroyed. It have full-hp instead of average and he has 6 parts where his hp is distrubuted For example like this. 1/15HP Head, 2/15HP each Arm, 3/15HPs each leg, and 4/15 the torso. Damaging a part to 0hp does not 'actually' destroy that part, it should only provide a small benefit, for example if an arm is 'destroyed' the monster drop the weapon he is holding in that hand, or can't attack with that arm for a round. The point is that every part must reach 0 to defeat the monster. If the characters 'destroy' the same part again, by reducing it to negative hp, you could give them a better benefit, maybe they totally cut the arm of the body, but should not bring the monster any closer to death. Another restriction is that you can't target more than maybe 2 parts in the same turn. (If you need flavor, this could be because of the monsters position in that moment).
PROs
- A devastating full-attak could destroy 1/6 or 2/6 of the actual monster no mater how much damage it took.
-You can rule interesting things like, the head is out of reach for melee and can only be hit with arrows or by reading an action (when the monster try to bite)
CONs
-Area spells would be more effective since they can be used on groups and Bosses. I think one should divide the damage by the number of parts and apply it to each part.
-The monster is still vulnerable to status as a single monster
-The head is so weak that it would need special conditions like more AC. and Players would instinctly keep hitting the head..
Second is the One-Character Party (OCP)
The OCP is a Bad Ass NPC that should be able to handle a party all by himself but be defetable. Consider the OCP as many copys of the same NPC that have one body but different initiative positions (Probably Roll INI, then INI-5,-10-15). In order to defeat the OCPs all its initiative positions must be destroyed. But only one copy per turn can be destroyed. The OCP have a full turn in every initiative position it have. And keeps acting in every position until all have been defeated.
PROs
-The itinerancy of its attacks would make it as dangerous as a party of its level.
-Its like a party where all members must be destroyed to stop working at full power.
-Buffs work in all the "party' at the same time.
CONs
-He can't flank or use any team strategy.
-If he gains a status condition, its like all the 'party' gained a status. (Probably each one of its initiative positions should count like a round, for durations of spells)
-He does not have the versatility of a mixed party. Tough I imagine some of its initiative positions could be different and he could use different moves in different positions, but still he would not have as much versatility as a real party.
Well I hope you can decypher what I am trying to do, I have no tested it yet and would apreciate any comment you have. If you dont fully understund something, please ask me and I will try to clarify. Thank you!
I can see some merit in each idea, but they seem too complicated to me. I prefer to just give a monster extra hit points.
For example, a cyclops is CR 5, an appropriate CR+1 boss fight for a 4th level party. Unfortunately, a cyclops would kill most 4th level characters with a single critical hit (or if both attacks of a full-attack hit). So, instead, I'll use an ogre (CR 3) with extra hit points and bonuses to saving throws. That way the fight will be longer, more epic, and more interesting, but without the constant threat of ignoble PC death.
A typical "bump" might be:
X2 HP +2 saves
X3 HP +3 saves
X4 HP +4 saves
Thank you very much for your suggestion Blueluck, that certainly is more practical and I will put that to good use too.
Anyways I would like to hear some more opinions about this rules. One thing that maybe I should have mentioned is the fact that I play with powergamers (nothing wrong with that) but I would like to nerf their crazy amounts of damage per round, at least in Boss fights. I am not sure if a single, bigger hp pool would do the trick.
What might be interesting is a mix of the One-Character Party and Blueluck's modification (which I also like on its own incidentally).
Since solo BBEG's get messed up so terribly simply by action economy, having them take multiple turns in a round may help quite a lot.
After that, bumping up their health and defenses so as not to go down after a single round, but also starting with a weaker creature so they don't TPK immediately might do pretty well.
Next time I need a BBEG, I might see how such an encounter goes.
One thing that maybe I should have mentioned is the fact that I play with powergamers (nothing wrong with that) but I would like to nerf their crazy amounts of damage per round, at least in Boss fights. I am not sure if a single, bigger hp pool would do the trick.
DR and Energy Resistance? Depending on how they're hitting of course. Single attacks cut through those much better than multiple. Larger health pools are good, but dropping a bit of the damage from each attack can go a long way.
Just as a side note, upping AC is also possible, but I think I like the idea of DR or Resistance more. This way, the party can still wear them down, it's just noticeably harder. Whiffs are boring, imo :P
Thank you very much for your thoughts Darkwolf!I think that merging those two ideas could work very good, will try that out too.
About damage reduction and resistance... I am not very fond of using them as adjustments, specially since they nerf different kind of characters differently. For example I have powergamers that rely on single powerful attacks for DPR,and others that rely on multiple attacks for great DPR, this later are at a disadvantage which I try to avoid. I mean if the monster has damage reduction it's okay, but I don't like to give other monsters DR.
I am 100% with you on not touching the AC, as you say Whiffs ARE boring, and that had me thinking on Blueluck's suggestion of bumping its "saves". Does that include AC? Or just Fort, Ref and Will? If so, wouldn't that hurt spellcasters the most?
I am trying to get a solution where BBEGs give a challenge but would not like to affect too much the effectiveness of each class.
I like where this is going!
depending on the BBEG's monster Type i will often add one or two racial hit dice to make them stand out.
I find tossing on the Advanced template and maxing hit points makes the BBEG/Solo a more challenging fight without making it too much more dangerous.
That sounds elegant. We are talking about: +2 on all rolls (including damage rolls) and special ability DCs; +4 to AC and CMD; +2 hp/HD. The monster's CR + 1.
Just a couple of questions, does the +4AC don't affect too much the to hit chance? And which APL encounter have worked for you after applying the CR adjustment?
Hero Points would work well for boss monsters. Only use them for negating failed saves and crits and the boss won't be more lethal on a peer round basis, but will be able to endure longer.
That's a good idea! I find a bit frustrating, nulling crits and failed saves thought... it's like everyone in the table gets all worked up and you say... eeeeehm... No.. that cool thing never happened... I am not very fond of that.
Maybe create BBEG points? With different options that would make the BBEG effective by itself and not by nerfing the PCs actions?
The problem I see with the One-Character party is that you end up with someone who can do things hat no PC can ever do, namely make more than one full round attack a turn. It's like a super version of Haste. I've been stating my Boss villains as gestalt with max HP for a while now. Gives them more survivability and options than a straight up person of their level, but the action economy keeps them in check.
Yes... that is true and that concerns myself too, maybe the same rule could be applyed from time to time to a PC if he is alone and spends X numbers of hero points. To be a BBGG. Imagine your party captured and you are the only one that could scape... you are the only one that can save them against all odds... so you apply that and have the power of a party for an encounter. I see how this could feel great for a PC... specially if they have faced a One Party Enemy before.. what do you think?
That said, I've looked at giving them more attacks too... I like the idea of giving them one reactionary ability rather than a whole new action. Something like "whenever someone starts casting a spell, then hurl a dagger at them". It's like a free readied action.
This is very interesting. An enemy with premade triggers. Would the old-school JRPG counterattack be too strong? (Whenever the BBEG is hit with a melee attack he can take a 5fts and make a single attack). Plus the dagger example?
If this rule is used you could give the PCs the option to do that as well in exchange of X Hero Points to solve the problem we discussed above.
depending on the BBEG's monster Type i will often add one or two racial hit dice to make them stand out.
Can they handle a party by themselves with that adjustment? I have not tried that myself.
I really like your ideas Blackish. Personally I think the biggest problem with most peoples Big bads is that they don't think carefully while playing them. The big bad should take every advantage they could get, Trying to get a suprise round, or fighting in terrain that sucks for the players or even if that means running away for now.
I agree with you, that's handling BBEG like Tucker's Kobols. (an awesome read if you haven't) But usually my adventures are very sand-boxy, so that means they can reach the BBEGs in different situations where he might not be as prepared, thats why I want them to be powerful by themselves and not because of exterior conditions, pretty much like the party is.
Sorry about the multiple-posts.