Guide 4.3 Changelog


Pathfinder Society

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Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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• Page 3: Updated the Table of Contents.
• Page 5: In the Core Assumption section, clarified that GMs should have access to all books in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line of hardcover rulebooks, but that they can be physical or electronic copies.
• Page 5: Clarified the following text in bold: “Unless noted otherwise in this guide, everything contained in the Core Rulebook (except artifacts, evil items, and intelligent items) and Pathfinder Society Field Guide is legal for Pathfinder Society play.”
• Page 5: In the last sentence above The Pathfinder Society Community section, changed “It is considered courteous to inform the Game Master...” to “You must inform the Game Master...”
• Page 6: Changed “Equipment listed on the pregenerated character sheet may never be sold.” To match what is advised on page 29, “Equipment listed on the pregenerated character sheet may only be sold to clear conditions such as death or during the play of a sanctioned event, and any remaining gold does not carry over at the end of the adventure.”
• Page 9: In section Step 9: Hit Points, changed “amount indicated in the Hit Dice column” to “amount indicated in the rightmost column”.
• Page 10: Added the following under the religion entry: “Druids, oracles, and rangers are the exception to this rule. The list is not exhaustive, and divine spellcasters of any future classes whose sources are added as additional resources to the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign will be required to choose a deity unless otherwise specified.”
• Page 10: Changed “before beginning play as a 2nd-level character” to “before beginning play as a character above 1st level”.
• Page 22: Reworded the note regarding First Steps for clarity, and added a sentence advising that Prestige Points be awarded after playing each part of the First Steps series.
• Page 24: Corrected the cost of restoration on Table 5–2 from 1,380 gp to 1,280 gp. Also added heal to the list, and added paladin to the list of classes next to atonement.
• Page 24: Under Purchasing Equipment and Spells, added a paragraph about item usage frequency.
• Page 26: Added “(or 1/2 point if using the slow track)” to the final sentence of the Earning Prestige section.
• Page 27: Added heal to Table 5–4.
• Pages 27–28: Changed the name of the section “Retirement and Beyond” to “Beyond Level 11.” Reworded the section for clarity and added the special title of Seeker for any Pathfinder agent who has achieved level 12.
• Page 28: Added Campaign Service Award Coin to the items that offer free rerolls.
• Page 29: Changed the title of Chapter 6 to “Sanctioned Modules and Adventure Paths.” Added rules to include sanctioned Adventure Path content as part of Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
• Pages 35: Changed the text in the Table Variance section to allow GMs more flexibility and better adjudication at their tables.
• Page 35: Under Alignment Infractions, added the following sentence: “However, ‘that’s just what my character would do’ is not a defense for being a jerk.”
• Page 40: Removed the maintenance requirements for 5-star GMs.
• Pages 41–46: Updated the list of regional coordinators. Add titles (VC for Venture-Captain and VL for Venture-Lieutenant) to the list of officers to indicate their rank.
• Page 47: Added an index.

5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Page 40: Removed the maintenance requirements for 5-star GMs.

Does this mean 5-stars stay 5-stars forever, or will a new set of requirements be implemented at some point?

Grand Lodge 4/5

How do you get the campaign service award coin?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Page 40: Removed the maintenance requirements for 5-star GMs.
Does this mean 5-stars stay 5-stars forever, or will a new set of requirements be implemented at some point?

Yes. After doing some research, there is no way I felt comfortable removing a fifth star from a GM who had dedicated nearly 1500 hours to the campaign. It wasn't right, it didn't sit well with me over the past few months, so I removed them.

If you earn your 5th star, you will always keep it. I am looking into some other programs that measure quality of a GM over just quantity.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

TriOmegaZero wrote:
How do you get the campaign service award coin?

They are very much like military or police challenge coins.

With the exception of extraordinary events (such as the recent community service events such as Toys for Tots events), I will only award these when I am at a location, convention, game day, etc... and observe this awesomeness occurring. Considering I'm planning to attend around 15 cons a year all over the world, this should give ample opportunity for people to earn one.

What are the requirements? You have to go above and beyond what I would do if I was in your shoes as a coordinator, GM, organizer, etc.... However, these are not limited to the VCs and VLs. These are offered to the player base at large. If I'm impressed, I award a coin. I want to award one of these coins to anyone who helps make PFS better in a new, unique, and/or different way.

I have seen several people that have gone way above, creating magnificent 3d terrain that attracts gamers from outside the PFS hall, draws them into the game itself, and gets them interested in trying out Pathfinder.. Another example is the few people that set up and ran their own Toys for Tots fundraising events without any prompting. They just scheduled and coordinated it, and in turn collected more than 100 toys over the weekend event for underprivileged kids. Several VCs and VLs got together and put together the GM 101 and Kid's Track lesson plans to improve the overall quality of PFS and attract new people to our awesome community. Those are just three examples I could think of off the top of my head. And no, they aren't retroactive ;-) You have to impress me starting in 2013.

That kind of time and effort are the things I'm looking for. There are no limits to how many I award each year. But, it takes a lot to impress me and if I award one, it will be a big deal. I will estimate 20-30 awarded each year max, and these are the rarest things that you will be able to obtain in PFS. Afterall, I am the only one that will have them in my possession and the only Paizo staff member that can award them.

Additionally, each coin will be stamped with a three digit number between 700-999. People who are awarded the coin may opt to change their PFS number to the three digit number on the coin. In 2008, at the dawn of the campaign, player numbers started at 1000. The numbers taken between 1-999 are numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 666, and 700. Those six belong to current or former Paizo employees. No one else has a number lower than 1,000.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Well, maybe I'll go for the fifth star instead of settling for the fourth when I get there. :)

Edit: Wow. That's impressive. Way better than any of my military coins.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Page 35: Under Alignment Infractions, added the following sentence: “However, ‘that’s just what my character would do’ is not a defense for being a jerk.”

Love it.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Page 40: Removed the maintenance requirements for 5-star GMs.
Does this mean 5-stars stay 5-stars forever, or will a new set of requirements be implemented at some point?

Yes. After doing some research, there is no way I felt comfortable removing a fifth star from a GM who had dedicated nearly 1500 hours to the campaign. It wasn't right, it didn't sit well with me over the past few months, so I removed them.

If you earn your 5th star, you will always keep it. I am looking into some other programs that measure quality of a GM over just quantity.

I'm unsure, but has there been a 5-star GM who had lost his/her fifth star due to these maintenance requirements? Would this or these individuals regain their lost star? :)

Also, this change log is awesome.

The Exchange 5/5

No, because the requirements only went into effect in Season 4 starting August 2012 and were repealed prior to the end of that same Season.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Doug Miles wrote:
No, because the requirements only went into effect in Season 4 starting August 2012 and were repealed prior to the end of that same Season.

Oh it was so short-lived. Never mind then.

Dark Archive 4/5

The 5-star maintenance requirements weren't too difficult, but, for someone who only goes to 3 conventions a year, and the fact that I can only run specials only so often (Interactive x1, Special x3), I felt that I was quite in danger of only having my 5th star (when I attained it) for a single year, then I would drop back down to 4th. I actually like it.

Anyways, as for the campaign/adventure path wording...its quite confusing and ambiguous. I would really expand it to explain what a GM really has to do, including making up a PFS Intro, and where the players should start, and where they should end. Also, it should explain about how to deal with the conclusion and other such things.

Lastly, I would change the Prestige/Fame Award to 1XP:2PP (or 0.5:1 for slow). Gaining less prestige for playing a lengthy AP is a turnoff for some. Its been the problem that I've had for Scenarios as well.

5/5 *

Imper1um wrote:
Lastly, I would change the Prestige/Fame Award to 1XP:2PP (or 0.5:1 for slow). Gaining less prestige for playing a lengthy AP is a turnoff for some. Its been the problem that I've had for Scenarios as well.

Sorry, I didn't follow here... I think the complaint is that APs, like modules, give 3xp and 4pp each? And the complaint is these don't give 6pp, as three scenarios would do for the same 3xp?

If that is the case, remember the leadership doesn't expect you to earn every prestige every scenario. This has been discussed ad-nauseum, and the expected curve IS actually 4 pp/fame per level. GMs (myself included) seem to tend to give more every scenario, but the average is 4.

If that wasn't the case, then could you elaborate?

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Imper1um wrote:

The 5-star maintenance requirements weren't too difficult, but, for someone who only goes to 3 conventions a year, and the fact that I can only run specials only so often (Interactive x1, Special x3), I felt that I was quite in danger of only having my 5th star (when I attained it) for a single year, then I would drop back down to 4th. I actually like it.

Imper1um, the 5-star maintenance requirements didn't have anything to do with running Specials or Exclusives. That's part of the requirements to achieve your fifth star.

The requirements for 5-star maintenance were running at least 12 different current-season scenarios, and running at least 25 tables during the year.

Dark Archive 4/5

CRobledo wrote:
Imper1um wrote:
Lastly, I would change the Prestige/Fame Award to 1XP:2PP (or 0.5:1 for slow). Gaining less prestige for playing a lengthy AP is a turnoff for some. Its been the problem that I've had for Scenarios as well.

Sorry, I didn't follow here... I think the complaint is that APs, like modules, give 3xp and 4pp each? And the complaint is these don't give 6pp, as three scenarios would do for the same 3xp?

If that is the case, remember the leadership doesn't expect you to earn every prestige every scenario. This has been discussed ad-nauseum, and the expected curve IS actually 4 pp/fame per level. GMs (myself included) seem to tend to give more every scenario, but the average is 4.

If that wasn't the case, then could you elaborate?

At the moment, it doesn't...fit well. See, the thing is, that if you miss 1/3 of the module, its a 1:1 Ratio for removal (66%) since its a 3-parter). So, if you play a AP, and miss 1 section, its 2 XP and 3 PP (, then if you miss 2/3, it's 1 XP and 2 PP, which drops down to the 1:2 Ratio (which is the norm in most scenarios).

I kind of don't get how it is 4 PP/L in the first place. That's basically saying that you will fail your faction-specific mission 66% of the time. Also, if we're gearing towards having 4 PP/L, its actually quite underpowered, because I miss my PP once every 10-20 missions (5-10% failure rate). But, I guess its been discussed a lot, so I'll let it go. The big thing is that the removal of points from missing sections brings it down closer to what Society Play actually is (1:2 Ratio 90-95% of the time). The big problem is that I don't know how it could be fixed in the first place, since the PP in the first place is such a low number, and tracking a 1/2 PP is hard enough if you're going slow as it is.

Dark Archive 4/5

Chris Mortika wrote:
Imper1um wrote:

The 5-star maintenance requirements weren't too difficult, but, for someone who only goes to 3 conventions a year, and the fact that I can only run specials only so often (Interactive x1, Special x3), I felt that I was quite in danger of only having my 5th star (when I attained it) for a single year, then I would drop back down to 4th. I actually like it.

Imper1um, the 5-star maintenance requirements didn't have anything to do with running Specials or Exclusives. That's part of the requirements to achieve your fifth star.

The requirements for 5-star maintenance were running at least 12 different current-season scenarios, and running at least 25 tables during the year.

I'm glad I save these old organized play documents:

Quote:


Beginning at the start of the first full Pathfinder Society season after receiving a 5th star, all 5-Star GMs must meet the following annual requirements to maintain their 5th star.
1. Attend at least two conventions (consisting of five sessions or more) as a GM.
2. Run five Special and/or Exclusive scenarios.
3. Run an average of two Pathfinder Society sessions per month plus one scenario (25 total for the season).
4. Run 10 different and newly released (for the current season) Pathfinder Society Scenarios. These 10 scenarios count towards the required 25 total for the season.
Failure to maintain these requirements by the beginning of the next Pathfinder Society season will result in the loss of your 5th star. You will retain your 4th star, but will have to requalify for your 5th star based on the same criteria set forth above.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

And you don't think you could've run a special once and an exclusive 4 times in a year? You said yourself you go to 3 cons a year, that's once per con and once for a home group.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I stand corrected.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:
I stand corrected.

I am lazy, I prefer sitting corrected, and if it is a really bad day I would lay down corrected... ;)

Dark Archive 4/5

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
And you don't think you could've run a special once and an exclusive 4 times in a year? You said yourself you go to 3 cons a year, that's once per con and once for a home group.

It was indeed possible for me to do it, but it pained me to think that I would only get my fifth star for only a single year simply because I got burnt out (it happens) and decided to take a hiatus for a month or two, or that the yearly Exclusive was already played by everyone possible in Florida at a convention, so it wasn't offered. I'm agreeing with the removal of the maintenance requirements, instead I would like to see different things as a rating system, rather than showing quality based on number of stars.

I know plenty of GMs that don't even have more than two stars, which are supremely better than I am. Hopefully, with the blog post, the new GM Reward system that was talked about will fill that void.

Grand Lodge 5/5

The GM star rating is a service mark with a basic review for the 5th star to ensure that the GM is competent and runs a fun game.

As Mike said, he is working on a process to recognize GMs for quality.

5/5

Don Walker wrote:

The GM star rating is a service mark with a basic review for the 5th star to ensure that the GM is competent and runs a fun game.

As Mike said, he is working on a process to recognize GMs for quality.

I think he understands what it's for, Imperium has generally been remarking on how he didn't think he's be able to keep it before, but now he will. So far I haven't seen him say he didn't understand what the 5 star system was.

1/5

Found some problems with the new guide:

Michael Brock wrote:
• Page 24: Under Purchasing Equipment and Spells, added a paragraph about item usage frequency.

However, it appears that there is no new paragraph when compaing guide v4.2 with v4.3. Were the noted changes to this section accidentally omitted?

Michael Brock wrote:
• Page 26: Added “(or 1/2 point if using the slow track)” to the final sentence of the Earning Prestige section.

I believe the new parenthetical is placed incorrectly within the sentence. The single point that the "or 1/2 point..." modifies is already the number of PP possible for slow track. I get the point, but I suspect others without the back-story will not understand this new language.

Finally, the link to additional resources within the Pathfinder Tales Novels section on page 28 is incorrect and merely lands at the PFS home page.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

The bullet point on page 33 references a "sidebar on page 30)." The sidebar is currently on page 38.

5/5

v4.3 wrote:
If a character is used to play an 11th-level module starting at 31 or 32 XP or a Tier 12+ special scenario at 12th level, thus ending the module or special scenario with more than 33 XP, the character receives full credit for the module or special scenario, but may not play any part of a Seeker story arc (except for a few grandfathered exceptions—see the Pathfinder Society FAQ).

I don't see any exceptions in the FAQ. Would one of those exceptions be if, say, someone with a L.12 character played (or GM'd and got credit on their L.12) the special at PaizoCon? At the time, the 4.1 Guide did not have this rule.

This could impact a lot of people being able to play the retirement/Seeker arc, if they've been waiting for others to hit L.12 and have accumulated a special credit or two.

Scarab Sages 1/5

Having played two special events, one of which gave out a single XP, this threw off a character's progression such that there was no way for the character to reach an exact 33 XP. What is the background and justification for this hard XP amount of 33?

5/5

Has anyone else noticed that the Osirioni faction does not have a book mark while the other factions do?

Spoiler:
Gasp is this an indication that they will soon be cut as a faction? Are they already fazing them out of the pfs?:p

Silver Crusade 1/5

So, just to get this straight:
If I want to GM a PFS game in my FLGS, it's still alright to just own the Core Rules and the Bestiary as long as I'm willing to look up stuff in, for example, Ultimate Combat or alike?

Let's say a player wants to participate with a Gunslinger, but he did not bring the Ultimate Combat. Can he just say "Well, that's part of the Core Assumption, so it's your job to bring this!"? Obviously I could just look the gunslinger up in the PRD, but not if there's no internet where I am at.
Which kinda sucks for the people just starting with Pathfinder and are not willing or able to afford paying for Bestiary II, III, Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Equipment and Advanced Race Guide.
Please tell me that I'm mistaken, since I really want to support the German publisher (Ulisses Spiele), so buying everything at once is out of question (multiple hundred dollars) and even purchasing as a PDF is quite expensive (thanks to some law about eBooks in Germany). Buying in English on the other hand tends to alienate players fluent in English from players not fluent in English.

5/5

PFS FAQ wrote:
In order to use additional resources for your character, you must bring a physical copy of the book with you or printouts of the appropriate pages detailing cost (if any) and explanations for each feat, item, spell, prestige class, and so on that you use. One need not prove ownership of said material but they must be from a legally obtained PDF or book printed by Paizo Publishing; content reproduced in other sources under the Open Gaming License (such as an online reference document or a homemade omnibus) is not legal with regard to use in sanctioned Pathfinder Society play. Since the core assumption for Pathfinder Society Organized Play is the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, we cannot assume that every Game Master will have the products included in the Additional Resources list. As such, it is each player's responsibility to bring to the game any necessary rules for running his or her character so that GMs may properly adjudicate the game during play.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq

Grand Lodge 4/5

Blackbot wrote:

So, just to get this straight:

If I want to GM a PFS game in my FLGS, it's still alright to just own the Core Rules and the Bestiary as long as I'm willing to look up stuff in, for example, Ultimate Combat or alike?

Let's say a player wants to participate with a Gunslinger, but he did not bring the Ultimate Combat. Can he just say "Well, that's part of the Core Assumption, so it's your job to bring this!"? Obviously I could just look the gunslinger up in the PRD, but not if there's no internet where I am at.
Which kinda sucks for the people just starting with Pathfinder and are not willing or able to afford paying for Bestiary II, III, Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Equipment and Advanced Race Guide.
Please tell me that I'm mistaken, since I really want to support the German publisher (Ulisses Spiele), so buying everything at once is out of question (multiple hundred dollars) and even purchasing as a PDF is quite expensive (thanks to some law about eBooks in Germany). Buying in English on the other hand tends to alienate players fluent in English from players not fluent in English.

The GM may use the PRD to prepare scenarios, including printing out stat blocks of monsters in the scenarios and any rules items they may need to reference for use at the table.

Players must bring a valid rules source (either hardcopy or watermarked PDF) and be able to show the rules to the GM at the table if necessary for anything they own that is not in the Core Rulebook, Bestiary, or Pathfinder Society Field Guide. This is, in part, to keep GMs from having to invest in everything all at once starting out.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Blackbot wrote:

So, just to get this straight:

If I want to GM a PFS game in my FLGS, it's still alright to just own the Core Rules and the Bestiary as long as I'm willing to look up stuff in, for example, Ultimate Combat or alike?

Yes. The GM just needs to have the "GM Core Assumption", which is the Core Rulebook, the Field Guide, and the Bestiary. As I understand it, any baddies a scenario uses from other sources should have their stats right there for you in the scenario.

Quote:
Let's say a player wants to participate with a Gunslinger, but he did not bring the Ultimate Combat. Can he just say "Well, that's part of the Core Assumption, so it's your job to bring this!"?

That player would be incorrect; Ultimate Combat is NOT part of the Core Assumption. The GM is not required to have it on hand. On the contrary: if a player wants to use anything from Ultimate Combat, then that player needs to bring their own copy (either a hardback, or a printout of the relevant pages of the PDF).

Quote:
Which kinda sucks for the people just starting with Pathfinder and are not willing or able to afford paying for Bestiary II, III, Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Equipment and Advanced Race Guide.

Such a person can just create a character using what resources they do have. No need to buy anything they're not using for their PC.

Hopefully this answers your questions. :)

Silver Crusade 1/5

Alright thanks! What confused me was this part:

PFS Field Guide, p. 5, Core Assumption wrote:
Additionally, a GM should have access to all books in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line of hardcover rulebooks, whether a physical or electronic copy.

but since the different pages on paizo.com haven't been changed in any way, I guess I was wrong. Luckily.

Thanks guys!

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Yes. The GM just needs to have the "GM Core Assumption", which is the Core Rulebook, the Field Guide, and the Bestiary. As I understand it, any baddies a scenario uses from other sources should have their stats right there for you in the scenario.

Jiggy get with the times!!! ;)

The GM Core Assumption is now

PFS Guide Pg 5 wrote:
Additionally, a GM should have access to all books in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line of hardcover rulebooks, whether a physical or electronic copy. The rules content of these books can be found online for free as part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document located at paizo.com/prd.

They changed this so they did not have to have the rules re-printed in the scenario.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Dragnmoon wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Yes. The GM just needs to have the "GM Core Assumption", which is the Core Rulebook, the Field Guide, and the Bestiary. As I understand it, any baddies a scenario uses from other sources should have their stats right there for you in the scenario.

Jiggy get with the times!!! ;)

The GM Core Assumption is now

PFS Guide Pg 5 wrote:
Additionally, a GM should have access to all books in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line of hardcover rulebooks, whether a physical or electronic copy. The rules content of these books can be found online for free as part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document located at paizo.com/prd.

They changed this so they did not have to have the rules re-printed in the scenario.

D'oh!

*commences self-flagellation*

Silver Crusade 4/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

But again, the GM needs access to that stuff so they can look up the stuff in the scenario. They aren't required to provide it for players to use for stuff on their PC. This is so the GM can use the PRD to prep the scenario, but they aren't required to bring the whole thing with them on game day, if they don't have an internet connection at the FLGS or whatever.

The players are still responsible for bringing their own reference material for anything they use on their PC.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

The list of shirts that qualify for a re-roll doesn't show the Pathfinder Online 'Goblin Squad' shirt. I was under the impression that this would be a qualifying shirt, and as they are now shipping to the Technology Demo Kickstarter backers it would be nice to have a clarification.

Edit: The list doesn't include the "Pathfinder Goblin with Red Gem" shirt, either - just the one with the d20. I trust this is merely an oversight ...

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

It will include the goblin with red gem in the next iteration of the Guide. What gave the impression that PFO shirt would grant a free reroll?

Sczarni 2/5

As far as a gm rating system goes, why not have the players rate their gm's after each scenario?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

Michael Brock wrote:
It will include the goblin with red gem in the next iteration of the Guide. What gave the impression that PFO shirt would grant a free reroll?

Well this posting on September 28th in the kickstarter forums seems pretty definite.

Goblinworks Inc. Creator wrote:


Wearing the Goblin Squad shirt to a Pathfinder Society event will indeed qualify you for a free reroll.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Hmmm, I'm guessing the Goblinworks Inc. Creator misspoke.

So far only PFS related shirts offer a free reroll.

5/5

There's misspeaking and then there's being totally wrong in a way that might prompt people to make a purchase that doesn't do what you've just claimed it will do. The former is no big deal. The latter undermines consumer confidence.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

I'm not bothered personally - should I need a re-roll I've got a Player Character Folio, not to mention a couple of other shirts that definitely qualify. But I'm going to be judging at a con in a couple of weeks, and I need to be prepared in case I encounter a player expecting a re-roll from that shirt. My wife is probably even more likely to encounter this potentially troublesome situation than am I; she's judging at the same con, and will be running a table of "We Be Goblins!". Neither of us are judging "Thornkeep", but several tables are being run - this convention is the debut for Thornkeep in our area, so it may well attract Pathfinder Online supporters.

The wording in the Guide to Organized Play can be read to support the premise that the Goblin Squad shirt should qualify:

Guide to PFS Organized Play wrote:
As a way of rewarding players who show their support for the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign by purchasing and wearing special tee shirts featuring campaign insignia, faction logos, or Pathfinder branding . . .

(emphasis mine).

The Goblin Squad shirt does carry Pathfinder branding - the left sleeve bears the Pathfinder Online logo, which very obviously includes the (no doubt trademarked) stylized word Pathfinder looking pretty much as it does on the Player Character Folio, or on other Pathfinder products.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
There's misspeaking and then there's being totally wrong in a way that might prompt people to make a purchase that doesn't do what you've just claimed it will do. The former is no big deal. The latter undermines consumer confidence.

I didn't know that was said and will figure it out on this end. Just because I was unaware from when it initially was advised, doesn't mean I can't adjust with the situation. Advising that we are undermining consumer confidence and the like is a bit much. Perhaps take a deep breath and let me fix the problem?

5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
I didn't know that was said and will figure it out on this end. Just because I was unaware from when it initially was advised, doesn't mean I can't adjust with the situation. Advising that we are undermining consumer confidence and the like is a bit much. Perhaps take a deep breath and let me fix the problem?

1. JohnF posted a quote that made an explicit statement; Don said the originator of the quote "misspoke." My pointing out that misspeaking doesn't cover being totally wrong about a straightforward statement meant exactly that; I was objecting to Don's classification of the error as a simple mistake.

2. Additionally, your post asked for information which was then provided; since you had not responded and it was the weekend I was not under the impression that you had seen the followup information, nor did I give any indication that I thought you would ignore it once you had.

3. My statement was conditional upon the original statement being wrong anyway. Since I believed when I said it, as I believe now, that having seen where a representative of the Pathfinder brand made a statement about the value of an item while people were still in the process of purchasing it, that you will probably opt to make that shirt legal for rerolls with the rest, I don't think it will turn out that the original speaker was wrong.

Ergo, I did not "advis[e] that [you] are undermining consumer confidence" by intent or implication. I merely took exception to Don's blowing the whole thing off as someone having misspoken when it was clearly an intentional statement that simply needed to be brought to light.

I don't know why you think I'm anti-Paizo all of a sudden, but I'm really not.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Don Walker wrote:
So far only PFS related shirts offer a free reroll.

This is not an accurate statement Don...

None of these which all offer free rerolls are PFS related

Pathfinder goblin with d20 (Gem will be added)
Paizo golem
Pathfinder goblin song shirts (both color and black and white)
Gray Maiden

The only thing different with the Goblin Squad T-shirt compared to the other shirts is it is not Paizo so I can understand Mike's initial instinct not to add it to the list because the shirt is not a Paizo shirt, but Goblinworks Inc. related.

If I never saw that post linked by JohnF I would have been surprised if it showed up on that list of free rerolls.

Grand Lodge 5/5

I stand corrected.

And guessing is not the same as saying.

5/5

Don Walker wrote:

I stand corrected.

And guessing is not the same as saying.

Fair point.

1/5

Mike, I sent you an email on the topic, but I thought I'd introduce it here.

I'll suggest there is an in-character policy of the Society to buy back all gear from characters who are not above 1st level, at full price. This allows characters who don't need to retrain from being placed at an equipment disadvantage by those that do.

Otherwise, you could have two characters end up at the exact same spot after 1st level, but one has Masterworks gear on account of retraining and the other does not.

I think it should be a PFS IC policy so players don't feel compelled to declare a "retrain" just to swap out their gear.

Hope others agree.

5/5

N N 959 wrote:
I think it should be a PFS IC policy so players don't feel compelled to declare a "retrain" just to swap out their gear.

What difference does that make? At first level, I can trade my longsword for a masterwork longsword, not change anything else, and call it a rebuild. Why introduce an in-character justification (which doesn't really match the Society's general conduct, at least in my opinion) just so you can do the exact same thing but call it something else?

Or I could just not bother, since that'll save me a total of, what, 7.5 gold? It hardly seems to need a ruleset of its own.

1/5

Because a rebuild or retrain or retcon is an OOC mechanic. Some people want an in-game mechanic that provides them with the same benefit and preserves a sense of character continuity.

Obviously you haven't run into the self-righteous few that rail against a rebuild to recoup equipment costs as somehow being the worst of all offenses. I kid you not.

Agile Breastplate is 400gp. The difference between selling that or swapping it is 200 gp. That's just one item and it's big deal when you're level 1.

5/5

N N 959 wrote:
Obviously you haven't run into the self-righteous few that rail against a rebuild to recoup equipment costs as somehow being the worst of all offenses. I kid you not.

So ... why tell them? Rebuilding happens at home between sessions.

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