So, I decided to introduce my familar to you all. Mengkare might not like it, but I don't answer to him anymore, and I've already got Hermean assassins after me, what's one more reason?
So, cat-dragons as they are called, are magically created creatures. While not actually part dragon (don't tell them I said that), they do have the ability to breathe fire (however, they don't develop this ability until they become a familiar). They have wings, either dragon-like or sometimes feathered, although they fly kind of awkward due to their shape. Also, they are slightly more intelligent than a normal cat, and love magical research, so they can help you out with such things.
((Ok, in character fun intro done, these are familiars I designed. I decided to make them from the island of Hermea. Basically, they are cats with wings (speed 40ft, clumsy, +4 fly skill) and their granted skill is Knowledge (Arcana). They are able to speak Common in a slightly high-pitch voice. When they become a familiar they can speak any language their master knows, as long as they are within range. You can have one at 1st level, however it is merely a pet slightly more intelligent cat (Int 6, which means as a familiar it increases to 7), and not a familiar until you take Improved Familiar at level 3. Then it gains it's fire breath, which is 1d4 damage in a 5 ft. line per 3 levels to a maximum of 5d4 at 15th level usable once every 2d4 rounds.
I actually designed them as a familiar for a Mage the Ascension character BEFORE I ever played the video game Lunar (which is where I got the name cat-dragon) and so I think that's a lot of why I loved Lunar so much. Nall was awesome.
Sounds more like they should be made more like the other choices under Improved Familiar.
Meaning no granted skill.
Sounds more like they should be made more like the other choices under Improved Familiar.
Meaning no granted skill.
Yeah, I thought about that, but I never understood why a cat grants a skill but a celestial cat doesn't. I mean, is that +2 to a skill really that powerful? Plus, if the familiar is improved, why does it lose an ability when it gets improved?
Furthermore, clockwork familiars (Pathfinder Adventure Path #63: The Asylum Stone (Shattered Star 3 of 6) DO grant a +2 to Craft and Use Magic Device skills, so cat-dragons could easily have a "research" ability just as the clockworks have the "Advice" ability.
The reason why is the Celestial Cat gains bonuses to Ability Scores and Smite Evil ability.
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But who takes a celestial cat when they could take a Silvanshee? If you're going to spend a feat on making your familiar better, you might as well wait a few extra levels to get one with really fun abilities like Gaseous Form, Electricity and petrification immunity, Heroic Strength (better than smite), Truespeech, and Fly 90ft (Good).
Improved familiars typically don't have a granted skill, but the Advice ability is precedent for their ability to give a skill bonus.
The dragon cat gains, compared to a normal cat:
Fly 40ft (clumsy)
Can speak
Int +1
Fire breath: 1d4 per 3 levels in a 5 ft. line (one square) every 2d4 rounds
Advice: +2 Knowledge (Arcana)
Note: I'd get rid of the +1 Int. It doesn't make sense - an improved familiar's intelligence overlaps with the imcreased familiar intelligence and doesn't boost it.
A celestial cat gains:
Darkvision 60ft
Cold, acid, electricity resistance 5
SR 5
Smite 1/day
This honestly doesn't look like too much of a difference. One utility ability (Darkvision/Fly clumsy), one minor offensive (Smite/Fire Breath), and minor resistance to three elements vs +2 one skill and able to speak. So it looks fair as a 3rd level improved familiar.
I would hesitate to allow a dragon cat as a starting familiar, though, since a cat with fly and the ability to speak is clearly better than other starting familiars (especially if the caster is then able to forgo Improved Familiar and keep the slightly improved cat).
Celestial Cat is more of an in-between familiar.
But who takes a celestial cat when they could take a Silvanshee? If you're going to spend a feat on making your familiar better, you might as well wait a few extra levels to get one with really fun abilities like Gaseous Form, Electricity and petrification immunity, Heroic Strength (better than smite), Truespeech, and Fly 90ft (Good).
Improved familiars typically don't have a granted skill, but the Advice ability is precedent for their ability to give a skill bonus.
The dragon cat gains, compared to a normal cat:
Fly 40ft (clumsy)
Can speak
Int +1
Fire breath: 1d4 per 3 levels in a 5 ft. line (one square) every 2d4 rounds
Advice: +2 Knowledge (Arcana)Note: I'd get rid of the +1 Int. It doesn't make sense - an improved familiar's intelligence overlaps with the imcreased familiar intelligence and doesn't boost it.
A celestial cat gains:
Darkvision 60ft
Cold, acid, electricity resistance 5
SR 5
Smite 1/dayThis honestly doesn't look like too much of a difference. One utility ability (Darkvision/Fly clumsy), one minor offensive (Smite/Fire Breath), and minor resistance to three elements vs +2 one skill and able to speak. So it looks fair as a 3rd level improved familiar.
I would hesitate to allow a dragon cat as a starting familiar, though, since a cat with fly and the ability to speak is clearly better than other starting familiars (especially if the caster is then able to forgo Improved Familiar and keep the slightly improved cat).
Hmmm, ok thanks. So I can drop the Int back to 6 as you suggested, there's no problem with that, and you can't get the cat at level 1, not until level 3. Now, you can have it as a PET.. but it's not a familiar and it does NOT have the fire breath until it bonds with the arcane caster at level 3. So, the intent is if you want it as your familiar you can have one at 1st level, just have to wait until 3rd level to actually make it your familiar. That's just like anybody can have a psuedodragon pet at any level, if the GM has it like you, but it's not a familiar.
Now, doing that, would it be too much to give it fire resistance of 5?
Oh and I just noticed that there was some misunderstanding about the +1 Int thing, since you can't actually have the cat-dragon as a familiar until 3rd level, that's the level that a familiar gets a boost to Int 7 as per the familiar abilities chart. So, by itself the cat-dragon is Int 6.
Also, was thinking of having them able to use "Vanish" at will, but that might bump them up to 5th level Improved Familiar so I didn't mention that above but just now remembered it...
What do you guys think?
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I still think that the Int bump is out of place since the rule for familiar intelligence is that they either get their normal intelligence or the intelligence granted a familiar of their master's level, whichever is greater. The Cassisian Angel has Int 6, and that doesn't do anything to its Int as a familiar.
Vanish at will would absolutely make it a 5th level familiar, maybe even 7th. Among other things it would allow the familiar to deliver touch spells without provoking AoO (if they are invisible at the time) which would itself be a huge benefit. IIRC normally a caster has to take Evolved Familiar and give their familiar 5ft reach for the same effect.
As for the Fire Resist:
Dragon Cat
Fly 40ft (clumsy)
Can speak
Fire breath: 1d4 per 3 levels in a 5 ft. line (one square) every 2d4 rounds
Advice: +2 Knowledge (Arcana)
Fire Resist 5
Sprite
Fly 60ft (perfect)
Can speak
Humanoid shape: can use weapons, wands, other items
Spell-like abilities: 1/day Colour Spray (DC 11) At-will daze, dancing lights, Constant detect evil, detect good.
DR 2/cold iron
Luminous (naturally sheds light as a torch - can suppress)
Fire resist and DR are probably about equally useful as defenses. Sprite gets the advantage on superior flight, humanoid shape, and its at-will light generation and constant detect abilities. Dragon cat gets the advantage on Advice and the minor offensive ability.
I think with fire resist the dragon cat is still a bit weaker as a familiar than a Sprite, but a bit stronger than the celestial cat. I don't think it would be horribly broken to give it fire resist as a 3rd level familiar, but it would probably be the best option available at that level. If you wanted to give it Vanish 3/day and Fire Resist 5 I think it would be a fair 5th level familiar.
Balance is not my strong point though.
Celestial Cat is more of an in-between familiar.
Cat evolves into Celestial Cat evolves into Silvanshee? ;)
Cat evolves into Celestial Cat evolves into Silvanshee? ;)
Thanks as if I didn't already have enough Pokemon references going through my head...
Hmm... Why not use the race builder from the ARG and add Racial HD as if they were class levels?
But yeah it seems good for level 5. A bit more offensive than most familiars.
I still think that the Int bump is out of place since the rule for familiar intelligence is that they either get their normal intelligence or the intelligence granted a familiar of their master's level, whichever is greater. The Cassisian Angel has Int 6, and that doesn't do anything to its Int as a familiar.
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Right, so if it started with an Int of 6, then nothing would change. A normal cat is Int 2 or 3 isn't it? It's a magical creature even before it's a familiar so a slightly higher intelligence makes some sense.
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Ah, I misunderstood your point on the intelligence. My apologies.
Yes, it makes sense for a normal Dragon Cat (a magical beast) to have a higher intelligence than a mundane cat, and Int 6 sounds just fine.
Yes, a Dragon Cat familiar will have an intelligence of at least 7, since when they are available as familiars at level 3 the familiar table grants an Int 7.
Other then the breathweapon, it kind of reminds me of a Tressym.
Other then the breathweapon, it kind of reminds me of a Tressym.
All I can think of now is a Winged Baby Simba...
Maybe dig up the 3.5e Draconic Simple Template and Pathfinderize it.
I can even help you.
Other then the breathweapon, it kind of reminds me of a Tressym.
All I can think of now is a Winged Baby Simba...
Maybe dig up the 3.5e Draconic Simple Template and Pathfinderize it.
I can even help you.
LOL, Nice.
Yeah that Template would do it I believe.
I can't find that bloody template...
and a Winged Baby Simba seems so cute!...
And I sounded so much like a girl there...
Hmm, wonder what a Half-Dragon Cat would be like...
fire breath + fur = no bueno
I am thinking instead of fur it is scales and draconic with little to no cat features.
Something like a Miniature Dragonel.
Well, thing is, it's a cat-dragon. That's what it is. That's what I designed it as, and then later when I played the video game Lunar that's what they had and that's a big reason why I love that game so much, cause it had cat-dragons so similar to the ones I'd designed.
Here is a picture of Nall. See? He's totally a cat. In fact, in the story of the game, nobody has seen anything like him before. He insists he's a dragon (though it's strongly implied that he doesn't know he's a dragon, and in fact has no idea what he is... only that he's a flying cat who can breath fire... so... he's a baby dragon right? Right..?) and they all think he's just some crazy flying cat. Well, at the end of the game you find out that he is in fact a dragon. He's a white dragon, and when the current white dragon dies (they are immortal age wise, but can be killed), it's up to him to take up the mantle and he comes into his full power. He then is able to be a full great wyrm size dragon, or the little cat-dragon. Then in Lunar 2 you meet him and he's got a human form and also there is Ruby who is the new red dragon, but unlike Nall, Ruby refuses to do her job and chooses to stay the little cat-dragon (until the end). :P
As for the Tressym, yes actually that's what I originally designed it after. It wasn't for a D&D game though, it was for a Mage the Ascension game so my mage who loved cats and was a bit of an eccentric pyromaniac made a cat-dragon familiar. :P
I can't find that bloody template...
and a Winged Baby Simba seems so cute!...
And I sounded so much like a girl there...
Hmm, wonder what a Half-Dragon Cat would be like...
the draconic template was in the Dragonomicon. the template kept your type (except animals, which became magical beasts) and gave you +1 NA (stackable), lowlight and darkvision (60 ft), +4 on saves against magical sleep and paralysis, +2 bonus on intimidate and spot, and a +2 bonus to strength, constitution and charisma. sadly no wings.
the draconic template was in the Dragonomicon. the template kept your type (except animals, which became magical beasts) and gave you +1 NA (stackable), lowlight and darkvision (60 ft), +4 on saves against magical sleep and paralysis, +2 bonus on intimidate and spot, and a +2 bonus to strength, constitution and charisma. sadly no wings.I can't find that bloody template...
and a Winged Baby Simba seems so cute!...
And I sounded so much like a girl there...
Hmm, wonder what a Half-Dragon Cat would be like...
This was a simple template not the one in Draconomicon.
It didn't give the Skill Bonuses or Save Bonuses. But gave you a Fly Speed equal to your Base Speed and the Maneuverability was based on your Size. You gained the Draconic & Reptilian Subtypes. It was a CR +1 or +2 increase.
the draconic template was in the Dragonomicon. the template kept your type (except animals, which became magical beasts) and gave you +1 NA (stackable), lowlight and darkvision (60 ft), +4 on saves against magical sleep and paralysis, +2 bonus on intimidate and spot, and a +2 bonus to strength, constitution and charisma. sadly no wings.I can't find that bloody template...
and a Winged Baby Simba seems so cute!...
And I sounded so much like a girl there...
Hmm, wonder what a Half-Dragon Cat would be like...
This was a simple template not the one in Draconomicon.
It didn't give the Skill Bonuses or Save Bonuses. But gave you a Fly Speed equal to your Base Speed and the Maneuverability was based on your Size. You gained the Draconic & Reptilian Subtypes. It was a CR +1 or +2 increase.
ooh that sounds fun, yup i want that one instead ;)
It also didn't give a Breath Weapon...
SO with the release of the Animal Archive, I determined it's a lot easier just to make the cat-dragon a normal cat that otherwise is able to speak and fly (Same as a raven can.) Then, simply use the Familiar Spell feat to allow the cat-dragon to cast various fire spells.
That way, it's viable as a 1st level familiar, with no need to wait for Improved Familiar, and it gets speak with animals of it's kind (in this case, cat... it's a magical cat that thinks it's a dragon, but it's still a cat), something that might especially be important for familiar archetypes.