Copying Wizard Scrolls

[xris]

If a wizard copies a spell into his spellbook, can he prepare and cast it even if he isn't at the required level?

For example, at the end of the introductory Beginner Box adventure, a Scroll of Fireball is part of the treasure. It seems clear that a wizard of any level can copy the Fireball scroll into his spellbook but can a wizard lower than 5th-level now prepare this spell and cast it, as in, can a 1st-level wizard now cast a 3rd-level spell?

To me, the text on page 52 of the Game Master's Guide suggests that he can.
"Once the spell is copied, it is part of your spellbook, and from then on, every time you prepare spells you can prepare that spell from the spellbook."
This seems to suggest that it over-rides the usual limitation that a wizard needs to be at 3rd-level before he can prepare a 2nd-level spell (and so on).

If he can't prepare a high-level spell previously copied into his spellbook, then I'm wondering why the BB includes the rules for copying scrolls, it doesn't seem worth the complication. Yes, it means he gets an extra spell into his spellbook eventually but it will be a while before he could make use of it. Even without copying the scroll it would be available when the wizard reaches the appropriate level.

If he can, then clearly he would only be able to cast Fireball dealing 1d6 damage as a 1st-level wizard. When the wizard becomes 2nd-level then it would do 2d6 damage but it would still only count as a 1st-level spell. When the wizard becomes 3rd-level then it would do 3d6 damage but then would count as a 2nd-level spell. Actually, this begs the question if a wizard can in fact prepare a higher level spell at a lower level (and it counting as a lower level spell).

I can see the intent of the rule to mean either so I'm unsure how the rule is meant to work. Please bear in mind I'm working from the Beginner Box rules, not the full rules. Thanks.

[Betsuni]

Lets say the wizard does copy the spell.
How is he going to cast it? He still needs 3rd level spell slots.

[xris]

Betsuni wrote:

Lets say the wizard does copy the spell.

How is he going to cast it? He still needs 3rd level spell slots.

As I mention in my OP.

xris wrote:

To me, the text on page 52 of the Game Master's Guide suggests that he can.

"Once the spell is copied, it is part of your spellbook, and from then on, every time you prepare spells you can prepare that spell from the spellbook."
This seems to suggest that it over-rides the usual limitation that a wizard needs to be at 3rd-level before he can prepare a 2nd-level spell (and so on).

I can't see anything in the BB rules that actually mention "x level spell slots". All I can find is that you prepare spells from your spellbook. The rules on page 52 (GMG) and page 26 (HH) seem to tell me that I can prepare any spell from my spellbook. There is also the case that while it can function as a 3rd-level spell, as a 1st-level wizard I'm only casting a 1st-level version of it (e.g. Fireball doing 1d6 damage instead of 5d6).

I have no issue if that's the case but I find the BB rules unclear. I suspect it's because "everyone knows what's meant" but I'm relatively new to PF so I don't have the experience as to what's gone on before :)

[Betsuni]

Unfortunately when you copy a spell to your spellbook the spell always takes the spell-level of the spell as listed in the rules.
Never a spell-level lower. And never spell-level higher.
So when you copy Fireball it will still be "Level sorcerer/wizard 3".

Now cross reference that to your spells per day. Earliest you can prepare that 3rd level spell is when your character reaches level 5.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard

I see the rules are not super clear on this. But this is the intent.

Rules are present for wizards being able to copy spells to their books because when a wizard levels up they only get 2 free spells to add to their books. Anything else and they'll need to pay money for the scroll, or find it.

Thus a well-funded wizard could potentially have every known spell in their spellbook(s). Allowing them to tailor which spells to use for the occasion.

I hope this is helpful.

[Sean K Reynolds]

If you can't prepare 2nd-level spells at your wizard level, then it doesn't matter if you have one copied into your book—you can't prepare it until your level is high enough to give you access to those levels of spells.

Or, to put it another way: your number of spells per day of that level is "none," so it doesn't matter if your spellbook has 0 spells of that level or 100... you don't have any place in your brain to put them. :)

[xris]

Betsuni wrote:

I hope this is helpful.

It was indeed, many thanks.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

If you can't prepare 2nd-level spells at your wizard level, then it doesn't matter if you have one copied into your book—you can't prepare it until your level is high enough to give you access to those levels of spells.

Or, to put it another way: your number of spells per day of that level is "none," so it doesn't matter if your spellbook has 0 spells of that level or 100... you don't have any place in your brain to put them. :)

Thanks, that clears it up!

Shame the wording on page 52 of the BB GMG didn't include something along the lines of...
"Once the spell is copied, it is part of your spellbook, and from then on, every time you prepare spells you can prepare that spell from the spellbook as long as you are at the appropriate level."
:)

[Sean K Reynolds]

Well, the "Copying scrolls into your spellbook rule isn't changing the "you need to be at least level X to cast spells of level Y" rule.

In the same way that just because armor is +1 full plate doesn't change that wizards can't wear full plate.

I do see your point, but there's a limit to how much we can over-explain the rules... otherwise the Beginner Box would be a 576-page book. ;)

[tennengar]

This is sort of a fine example of how much gray 'area of personal interpretation' still exists in the core books though. More and more these forums prove to me that the span of this gray area is much larger than I would have expected.