Spell-Winding Timepiece

[Georgios Avate]

Ok now, I like to cast spells. Most of my characters cast spells, and I like them to last long enough which sometimes just isn't the case!.

This item was one of my favorites!, I'm glad to see it made top32. Congratulations Charlie! Good luck with your archetype!.

[Charlie Bell]

There's been some really great input in this thread. I wish I could have drawn on the wisdom of the collective when writing this item.

I'd like to talk about how I went about designing the spell-winding timepiece, why I made some of the decisions I did, and perhaps address some of the concerns that have been raised. I like the way Chris Schaeffer broke it down on his thread for cloudwrangler's gloves, so I will follow a similar format.

Inspiration:

I like time stuff. I like steampunky clockworky stuff. I like chap hop stuff and old man chic in general. Superstar items should be cool and pocket watches are just cool to me. I thought about how time interacts with magic. Spell durations were the obvious thing. So, how would a pocket watch fiddle with spell durations? Use activation is generally cool--an item that, when used the way it is intended to be used, has a thematically-linked magic effect in addition to its mundane effect. You manipulate a pocket watch by winding it up. So maybe when you wind it, you also "wind up" spell durations?

Aesthetics:

I'm kind of proud of the various metals bit. It was an afterthought to the mechanical design, but I felt it was value added. The metals deliberately imply that time is valuable: hours, minutes, and moments the most valuable of all. Anybody who's felt the adrenaline pumping in combat or some other life-and-death experience will know how priceless the moments are. Round/level buffs certainly seem to be the most potent in general. In retrospect, I could have churched up the aesthetics a bit more, but it's really easy to overdo item description, too.

Mechanics:

I tried to explain the mechanics as simply and thoroughly as possible. I probably should have spelled out more explicitly that the timepiece only resets spell effects with a target entry that target the bearer--certainly that was what I intended. Winding up your bull's strength? Cool. Winding up the sleet storm you're standing in? Silly. Keeping the time stop abuse of the pre-errata ring of continuation in mind, I also decided to limit it to round/level, minute/level, and hour/level spells. I didn't want to exclude 10 minutes/level stuff like magic circle, so that's how I wound up with the language about spells with duration based on caster level and measured in rounds, minutes, or hours. Also, I limited it to actual spells and not magic item effects or SLAs, partially to head off any wonky adjudication that might be required from (Sp) abilities or item effects, and partially because it just felt right. Folks have correctly noted that the timepiece has a built-in drawback in that it will also reset undesired effects! Another intended consequence is that there's a decision to be made about when to use it: it can effectively double the duration of round, minute, or hour spells, but if you use it to double your minute spells, your round spells will have already expired and you probably won't even be an hour into your hour spells.

Overwinding:

People have had mixed reactions about the 25% chance to destroy the timepiece when overwinding it. Great! Again, it just felt right to have the possibility of overwinding it. That's the first thing you learn about a pocket watch. Also 1/day activation is kind of boring. Maybe when you're 16th level, facing the final few encounters of the campaign, you don't care if you have to wind it a couple times and risk burning 25k gp. I used the wind fan as my precedent for the chance of destruction.

Pricing:

At first, I had no idea how to price this thing. After some reflection, I figured that the closest thing in function to it is a greater extend rod. The timepiece only works once per day, but can effectively extend multiple spells. So sometimes it will be more useful than the rod, sometimes less useful, depending on how many spells you have up. The rod's priced at 24.5k gp, so I went for an even 25k. That also puts it at about 23% of 12th level WBL and about 17% of 13th level WBL--given the CL and prerequisites, about the right level range it should become available.

Unforeseen Consequences:

Despite my best efforts to player-proof this, as Rogue Eidolon shows, it could indeed be used to keep extended hour/level spells up indefinitely. That was not foreseen or intended. Kudos also to Tels for pointing out that it could be used to keep a charm or dominate victim enchanted--I never thought of that, either. That may be less of an issue because if the spell lasts for days already, like dominate person, you can just recast it. Another issue is that at the level you could reasonably get it, you're very likely to have routinely more than 3 active buffs. That means that it's generally more useful than a greater extend rod.

In Retrospect:

First, I should have priced it higher. I think around 35-40k gp seems better, given its greater utility than a rod. Any price higher than 60k means that you couldn't reasonably expect to own one before 15th-16th level, which also means that it would probably not see play in an AP. A number of folks have kindly suggested fixes to prevent the indefinite/permanent spell abuse. I think I wouldn't want to limit it to rewinding only one spell effect. That would also remove the decision about when to use it and the drawback of rewinding undesired spell effects. The overwinding chance was cool, but some folks felt it was too random. I think the best fix would involve reworking the overwinding chance as a mechanic to curb the indefinite spell exploit. More to follow on that.

Thanks again to everyone who's provided input and constructive criticism. In particular, I'd like to thank Template Fu (who'd have thought a spelling bee champ would misspell pocket watch?) and especially Rogue Eidolon for pointing out just which spells could be kept up indefinitely.

[Jeremy Clements]

I like it, and it could be a great aid for spellcasters of all sorts.

You might worry about abuse, but I can't think of a single duration based spell that could benefit from this and still be broken, as you just have the limitation of the original spell caster's duration limit re-applied...unless you want to take a chance to break your cool magic device!

Expensive, but worth the cost in my opinion, and again it is good for all levels of play.

[Rogue Eidolon]

Jeremy Clements wrote:

I like it, and it could be a great aid for spellcasters of all sorts.

You might worry about abuse, but I can't think of a single duration based spell that could benefit from this and still be broken, as you just have the limitation of the original spell caster's duration limit re-applied...unless you want to take a chance to break your cool magic device!

Expensive, but worth the cost in my opinion, and again it is good for all levels of play.

Hey Jeremy--The issue some of us mentioned above, explained more succintly, is that you can sometimes have spells with durations greater than 24 hours (hour / level spells with Extend Spell at Caster Level 12 or so, right around when you'll start having enough money for this item). Since the timepiece lets you reset the duration every 24 hours, and since the duration is greater than 24 hours, those spells now last forever as long as you use the timepiece at least once a day. Check my post last page for a list of which spells could be affected (I went through hour/level spells looking for beneficial spells that target one or more creatures).

Charlie Bell wrote:

Thanks again to everyone who's provided input and constructive criticism. In particular, I'd like to thank Template Fu (who'd have thought a spelling bee champ would misspell pocket watch?) and especially Rogue Eidolon for pointing out just which spells could be kept up indefinitely.

No trouble! I really took my time thinking for each item judgment, making lists like that one when I wondered if an item was too powerful, and I'm glad you've taken so well to constructive criticism, even though I admitted I had your item on my auto-reject list. That's the sign of a good freelancer in my book.

[James Conder]

"But that doesn't factor in the time spent picking one's nose while waiting for someone to volunteer to open that rather obvious door."

From experience that's definitely a full round action :-)

[James Conder]

I like this item. Having an appetite for destruction, it would have been interesting to see it go out in an explosion of chronomagic if overwound.

It would make a good explanation for the premature greying of my hair ...

[RonarsCorruption]

Charlie, I love your feedback on our thoughts, and you made me realize a simple solution to your infinite spell problem - any individual spell can only be affected by the stopwatch once. So sure, you could make one buff last two days, but not forever, it just becomes a doubly-extended spell.

[james knowles]

Congrats.

I think the potential for abuse is way too high here. Perhaps if it only added 1d4 addtional time increments (round/minute/hour) and didn't stack with the extend spell feat it'd be ok.

[Andrew Black]

I saw this one late in the voting cycle, and liked it immediately. It may have some mechanical flaws, but I think you had a superstar idea and it looks like you have already started thinking about how you can adjust it based on the feedback. Good Luck in round 2

[Jon Haire]

I voted for this item a few times. I think this is example of a clever idea that has mojo without having a big cinematic effect.

[Charlie Bell]

As a token of appreciation for all the feedback in this thread, I wanted to post an updated version of the spell-winding timepiece for use in your games. Hopefully, if the timepiece ever sees print, Paizo will use something closer to the below version than the original. Feedback on the new and improved timepiece is of course welcome!

The Fix:

Spell-Winding Timepiece
Aura strong universal; CL 13th
Slot none; Price 35,000 gp; Weight —
Description
This ornate platinum pocket watch has a copper hour hand, silver minute hand, and golden second hand. Despite the presence of a winding knob, it never needs winding and always keeps accurate time.

The bearer can wind a spell-winding timepiece as a standard action. Winding the timepiece causes the durations of active spell effects that target the bearer to be reset, as if the spells had been re-cast just as the timepiece was wound. Only spells that have a duration based on caster level and measured in rounds, minutes, or hours are affected. Spells to be affected must also have a target entry in the spell description. The duration is reset only for the bearer, not for any other targets of the original spells. Spell effects from magic items and spell-like abilities are likewise not reset.

A spell-winding timepiece can be wound once per day. If the timepiece is wound again while any spell effect it has already reset is still active, there is a 50% chance that the delicate clockwork will be ruined, permanently destroying the device.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Extend Spell, limited wish; Cost 17,500 gp

Summary of change:
Increased the base price and cost from 25k to 35k.
Brass to copper in the flavor text in keeping with the value of time theme. There are platinum, gold, silver, and copper pieces in the game, but no brass pieces.
Clarified the language about targeting the bearer; specified the spell must have a target entry.
The Big Change: reworked the overwinding chance as a fix to the indefinite spells exploit.