A whip, Whirlwind Attack and Greater Trip.

[RumpinRufus]

Grick wrote:

RumpinRufus wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, Grick, looks like I was reading it wrong. Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesses and such should still work.

Combat Reflexes, however, is a feat that grants you extra attacks, so it would still not be active.

If you're going with intent, why not use the whole intent?

The extra attacks are because (inexplicably) Whirlwind Attack uses a full-attack action, and normally you get extra attacks when using a full-attack action, so they wanted to specify you only get the attacks from Whirlwind, not your normal attacks from a full-attack.

The intent is you're giving up your regular attacks. "you can give up your regular attacks..." Those regular attacks are from BAB, haste, TWF, etc. The attacks you would normally get from a full-attack.

That text wouldn't be needed if Whirlwind attack said "As a full-round action..." instead of "When you use the full-attack action..."

Allowing someone to make one AoO during a whirlwind trip but not more (since they're granted by a feat) doesn't really make much sense.

I'm just going by RAW, as this is the rules forum. Not saying I would play that way in my own game.

Roberta Yang wrote:

Why would Greater Trip not be active? It doesn't grant you any attacks.

If you finish reading the thread, you will find out no one is saying Greater Trip isn't active. That's what I thought before Grick posted the dev clarification.

[Siddhartasam]

For anyone having a hard time envisioning how a whirlwind trip would work, I would point you towards [any kung fu movie ever]. An especially good demonstration may be found here (fast forward to 58 second mark: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=kung+fu+hustle++youtube&view=detail &mid=D60DD8D860C086030FDDD60DD8D860C086030FDD&first=0&FORM=NVPF VR)

[EvilMinion]

you can't make an attack of opportunity against a creature that has cover.
Any creature behind another creature (relative to you) has cover (from you).

Thus you could make an attack at all the creatures in range (though some of the ones further then 5' out would get some cover bonuses to AC), but you would not necessarily get to make an attack of opportunity for doing so against all of them.

[Ravingdork]

That's why you trip and smack the people in front FIRST. That way, they are too low to provide cover for the people behind them.

[Ravingdork]

I started a thread on the Whirlwind Attack + Greater Trip subdiscussion here.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

Roberta Yang wrote:

I just don't see how someone could possibly trip two different people in just six seconds.

A round being 6 seconds is a quirk of the system, and by higher levels, is already completely unrealistic. That's why it's fiction.

Think about it. Say there are four Level 20 fighters going at each other. They all get four solids a round (assuming one weapon). In reality, that would take at least 30 seconds, not 6.

Now go a step further, with something that happened in my game. Two fighters with the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype had a fight recently, both with high Dex and Level 20. They both get 7 attacks a round. Deadly Defense (Level 19 ability) makes it so every melee attack that hits you triggers an AoO. So when one hit the other, it triggered the AoO, and with Equal Opportunity, that's two attacks. An AoO can also trigger another AoO, so when that hits, it triggers the next one. Inside 6 seconds, these two triggered so many AoO on each other that over 30 attacks went off in a single round, and that was with other people still left to go! Completely within the rules, but within 6 seconds as well. Think fighting in Dragonball Z. That's pretty much the result.

If you want realism, you're playing the wrong game.

RumpinRufus wrote:

Grick wrote:

RumpinRufus wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, Grick, looks like I was reading it wrong. Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesses and such should still work.

Combat Reflexes, however, is a feat that grants you extra attacks, so it would still not be active.

If you're going with intent, why not use the whole intent?

The extra attacks are because (inexplicably) Whirlwind Attack uses a full-attack action, and normally you get extra attacks when using a full-attack action, so they wanted to specify you only get the attacks from Whirlwind, not your normal attacks from a full-attack.

The intent is you're giving up your regular attacks. "you can give up your regular attacks..." Those regular attacks are from BAB, haste, TWF, etc. The attacks you would normally get from a full-attack.

That text wouldn't be needed if Whirlwind attack said "As a full-round action..." instead of "When you use the full-attack action..."

Allowing someone to make one AoO during a whirlwind trip but not more (since they're granted by a feat) doesn't really make much sense.

I'm just going by RAW, as this is the rules forum. Not saying I would play that way in my own game.

No, no you're not. Combat Reflexes does not grant extra attacks, it grants extra AoO. While you attack with an AoO, it is not an attack in the same sense. Combat Reflexes stays in RAW and RAI. Any other reading would make the feat completely useless anyway.

Besides, given the requirements for Whirlwind Attack and the fact that at higher levels martial characters are already so far behind casters, why do you feel the need to nerf the option? Martial characters have a hard enough time as it is. Anything creative that gives them more power is fine by me. You spend a lot of feats to get there. Even more feats (a dozen) to do this whip thing. If you specialize that much, there's no reason to rule against it, especially since nothing in the rules forbids it.