Can you aid another twice on the same person?

[Xavier319]

aid another says...

In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

if you have swift aid, can you swift action aid another for attack, then use your standard to aid them for AC? or both to attack or AC? or any other combination?

[Umbranus]

I'm pretty sure you can aid once for AC and once for to hit. What I don't know is about aiding one twice. While the description states that multiple chars can aid the same fried it goes on with saying that similar bonuses stack, not identical bonuses.
I would interpret to guys both aiding for AC similar bonuses, while one guy aiding twice for AC would be an identical bonus, not jsut a similar one.
But I'm not sure.

[Grick]

Umbranus wrote:

I would interpret to guys both aiding for AC similar bonuses, while one guy aiding twice for AC would be an identical bonus, not jsut a similar one.

I think since Swift aid only grants a +1 instead of a +2, it's different enough to stack.

[Sangalor]

I would also say it stacks. It's a slightly different thing, and it eats your swift action.

It becomes interesting when you can do it as a swift, move, standard and immediate action, though. And if you add flanking...
Not sure whether you reach a point somewhere where it becomes imbalanced. As it can be resolved ingame by the bad guy focusing on you ("get that pestering disrupting guy out of the way") and you do not have these bonuses, I don't think it will be a problem.

[The black raven]

I would say that you can aid twice, but it does not stack because both bonuses come from the same source (you using the aid another action).

[Sangalor]

The black raven wrote:

I would say that you can aid twice, but it does not stack because both bonuses come from the same source (you using the aid another action).

I thought about that as well, but I wasn't sure: Doesn't this rule only apply to magic effects?

[Lab_Rat]

The black raven wrote:

I would say that you can aid twice, but it does not stack because both bonuses come from the same source (you using the aid another action).

But aid another bonuses stack.

"Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check."

So...yes you can use it twice on the same ally in any combination (2xAC, 2xAtk, AC+Atk)

[Umbranus]

Grick wrote:

Umbranus wrote:

I would interpret to guys both aiding for AC similar bonuses, while one guy aiding twice for AC would be an identical bonus, not jsut a similar one.

I think since Swift aid only grants a +1 instead of a +2, it's different enough to stack.

Good point

[healbot42]

While not answering your question, you can essentially get double the bonus on Aid Another with the Helpful trait. It's a Halfling race trait that gives a +4 bonus on Aid Another instead of +2. In my PFS game the party fighter is combining Helpful and the Bodyguard feat to give PCs who are attacked in his reach +4 to AC. It's fairly cheesy.

[EWHM]

Yes, multiple aid anothers is how very low level types (e.g. army regulars) fight particularly nasty opponents.
For instance, a squad might be issued one or two special weapons---like a heavy crossbow and a some specialty ammunition, with the rest of the squad ordered to assist the special weapons man, set up flanks, etc. Groups like this are going to gravitate to weapons with long range, large damage dice, and/or high critical multipliers. It's a good exercise sometime to pit an arbitary sized force of 1st level warriors with 1st level fighter NCOs and 2nd level fighter officers against some of the nastier things you can summon. Decide on a squad budget and equip them accordingly. You'll fairly quickly evolve the standard 'tactics of the weak' and get a better estimate of how magic impacts warfare (at the average pathfinder/3rd edition level, it makes it resemble modern warfare moreso than bog standard medieval war).

[Betsuni]

SRD Bonus

Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.

The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

----------------------------------------------------

So I would say "Aid Another" is an untyped bonus.

But what about source? Is source the person/thing applying the bonus? Or is source the action type applying the bonus?

If source is the person/thing then I would want to say "Aid Another" can be stacked multiple times, so long as every application came from a different person.

[Grick]

Betsuni wrote:

SRD Bonus

Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.

The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

Those are two different citations.

The first one is Bonus under Common Terms in Getting Started.

The second one is Bonus Types under Special Spell Effects in the Magic chapter.

[Xavier319]

I'm planning on using the Fools for Friends second darkness campaign trait to add to both swift aid and normal aid another, along with bodyguard to protect my caster friend.

another question. it says you have to have the enemy within your threat range, does your friend have to be within your threat range as well? I would assume so, since it only makes sense ,but I dont see it in the RAW.

[Xavier319]

also, another thought. if you use aid another on someone, do both they and the monster have to stay in your threat range for it to still work? if the monster moves out, say takes a five foot step, can you still use it? what if they leave your threat range?

[Weirdo]

healbot42 wrote:

While not answering your question, you can essentially get double the bonus on Aid Another with the Helpful trait. It's a Halfling race trait that gives a +4 bonus on Aid Another instead of +2. In my PFS game the party fighter is combining Helpful and the Bodyguard feat to give PCs who are attacked in his reach +4 to AC. It's fairly cheesy.

No, cheese is my helpful halfling Cavalier (Order of the Dragon, Honour Guard) with a +2 Benevolent Breastplate giving +9 on his Bodyguard actions. :)

I've assumed that the aid another stands as long as the positioning is applicable when you take your action - requiring everyone to hold still for the entire round makes it too easy to invalidate the action.

I asked the same question about friends within range a while back. Here's the answers I got. Two different answers, but hopefully that helps.

[Xavier319]

agreed, i like the answers.

as for benevolent, i can only find it as a weapon enhancement, and it only adds to aid another for attack.