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I'm new to PFS though I have played D&D for many years, so I'm looking for some input and to check if my thinking on this process is correct or not.
I have decided to start a Dwarf Paladin for our PFS group, partly because I play a Dwarf Paladin in some other games and thought it would be fun but also because the group I am joining lacks a tank or a dedicated healer. This character would be intended to fill more the role of tank than healer, but I do want to take advantage of the paladin healing abilities as much as possible too.
I started by giving him the best armor and highest DPS weapon I could find, Field Plate and the Greatsword. With his STR at 18, he can then hit for 2d6+6 with an AC of 18, which feels pretty good, especially for level 1.
Originally, I had balanced the other stats out and tanked his CHA, putting most of the rest into CON and DEX. After playing him once, our GM suggested that I may want to boost his CHA to help with spellcasting and healing in the future.
I wanted to keep the STR where it was, so I decided to tank the INT and WIS scores and boost the others up as much as I could.
STR STRENGTH 18 +4
DEX DEXTERITY 12 +1
CON CONSTITUTION 14 +2
INT INTELLIGENCE 7 -2
WIS WISDOM 9 -1
CHA CHARISMA 13 +1
I am considering reducing the CON score in order to boost either his DEX or CHA (or possibly INT or WIS). DEX makes up for the field plate a bit, which I feel he needs at least +1. I really don't want to give up more than 1 point of AC since he is intended as a tank and needs to be able to be in the enemy's face doing damage. I may just keep him where he is, but am a little concerned that his low INT and WIS scores may hurt him.
Would it be wise to reduce STR by 1, which would free up 4 points to buy other stats and then boost STR back when I hit level 4? I'm already planning to increase CHA at level 4 and possibly WIS, but would it be better to do part of that now? or maybe boost DEX some more so he's not quite as hindered by his armor? Just looking for ideas...
Here are his stats as they are entered right now. This was built in Herolab at our game store and don't have the app on my laptop to play around with at the moment but I'll be there tomorrow...
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STR STRENGTH 18 +4
DEX DEXTERITY 12 +1
CON CONSTITUTION 14 +2
INT INTELLIGENCE 7 -2
WIS WISDOM 9 -1
CHA CHARISMA 13 +1
FORTITUDE +4
REFLEX +1
WILL +1
AC: 18
Touch AC 11
Flat-footed AC 17
HP 15
Greatsword
Crit: 19-20/x2
2-Hand, S
Both Hands: +5, 2d6+6
Throwing axe
Mainhand: +5, 1d6+4
Rng: 10'
Light, S
Ranged: +2, 1d6+4
+7 Max Dex: +1, Armor Check: -4
Field plate
Spell Fail: 35%, Heavy, Slows
SKILLS
Skill Name Total Ability Ranks Temp
Acrobatics -2 DEX (1) 1
Greed: +2 to determine the price of nonmagic items with precious
metals or gemstones
Appraise -2 INT (-2) -
Bluff +1 CHA (1) -
Climb +0 STR (4) -
Diplomacy +1 CHA (1) -
Disguise +1 CHA (1) -
Escape Artist -3 DEX (1) -
Fly -3 DEX (1) -
Heal +3 WIS (-1) 1
Intimidate +1 CHA (1) -
Stonecunning: +2 bonus to notice unusual stonework, such as traps
and hidden doors in stone walls or floors.
Perception -1 WIS (-1) -
Ride -3 DEX (1) -
Sense Motive -1 WIS (-1) -
Stealth -3 DEX (1) -
Survival -1 WIS (-1) -
Swim +0 STR (4) -
Feats, Traits & Flaws
Armor Expert
Armor Proficiency (Heavy)
Armor Proficiency (Light)
Armor Proficiency (Medium)
Magical Talent (Stabilize) (1/day) (Sp)
Martial Weapon Proficiency - All
Shield Proficiency
Simple Weapon Proficiency - All
Toughness +3
Special Abilities
Aura of Good (Ex)
Darkvision (60 feet)
Defensive Training +4
Greed
Hardy +2
Hatred +1
Slow and Steady
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su)
Stability +4
Stonecunning +2
Spell-Like Abilities
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp)
BTW, if you want to add a litle flavor to your paladin, the archetypes are kinda cool. Don't know if they are PFS approved, though.
I played a Dwarf paladin in a PbP. I wouldn't worry about the Dex needing to be +1.
And the Armor Expert trait is a good choice for the class.
Enjoy!
Charisma is exceedingly amazing for a paladin due to Divine Grace at lvl 2. I would probably not tank CHA on a paladin. I would not go past 12 DEX and focus on CON for survivability instead.
Weapon choice, I prefer Falchion or Nodachi (if flavor allows) over Greatsword for a paladin, and consider maybe going 1-h and shield if you are going to indeed be a tank. Remember you can always choose to not use the shield and use your 1h weapon two-handed. My Paladin uses a Falcata and now an animated shield.
For Paladin tanks, I recommend the Fey Foundling trait, to boost all the Lay on Hands you will be using on yourself. For that same purpose, look into the Greater Mercy feat if your charisma will allow. I agree armor expert is nice.
Finally, when you get to pick your divine bond, I'd pick the mount. A heavy CON mount with Combat Reflexes + Bodyguard + In Harm's Way is amazing for tanking.
There is a paladin archetype that allows you to make a bond with your armor as well.
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From what I can see, archetypes are okay in FPS. They might not be included in Herolab, but that is one of the reasons I wanted to make a post, because I know apps like Herolab don't always include everything... or I may just have missed it in the app. I like the idea of this guy being able to cast a huge healing aura though, even if it isn't until level 11.
The main benefit I see right now from improved DEX is the bonus to AC. In fact, I was considering dropping CON a little and boosting DEX, which would decrease HP by 1 and increase AC by 1...
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Field plate is a lighter and less restrictive version of full plate. The online sources I've seen list it as 1200gp cost, however, Herolab must have a different price because I didn't have that much starting gold (though I do now after two sessions). I'd have to look at the Herolab app to know exactly what I paid for it.
Whats field plate? And does it cost more than 150 gp?
Yeah, this.
Actually, does it cost more than 100 gp, given that your greatsword cost you 50?
You know about the requirement for owning approved additional resources and so on, right?
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Whats field plate? And does it cost more than 150 gp?Yeah, this.
Actually, does it cost more than 100 gp, given that your greatsword cost you 50?
You know about the requirement for owning approved additional resources and so on, right?
Hmmm... just looked at the rules and I may need to talk to our GM because the guy that helped me get started creating my character told me the wrong amount of starting gold it would seem. Although I have now been through a couple sessions and have more, but I'll have to look into this.
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Charisma is exceedingly amazing for a paladin due to Divine Grace at lvl 2. I would probably not tank CHA on a paladin. I would not go past 12 DEX and focus on CON for survivability instead.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was trying for after talking to our GM. I don't really see any ways I can tweak his stats further that would provide any greater definite advantage.
Weapon choice, I prefer Falchion or Nodachi (if flavor allows) over Greatsword for a paladin, and consider maybe going 1-h and shield if you are going to indeed be a tank. Remember you can always choose to not use the shield and use your 1h weapon two-handed. My Paladin uses a Falcata and now an animated shield.
I'll definitely look at possibly switching to one hand with a shield. I've thought about it some but opted for the base DPS over crit chances. Maybe I'll take another look though. I guess I figured 2d6+6 with a 19-20 crit range would be better than 2d4+6 with a 18-20 crit range, but maybe not. Probably pretty close I'd imagine... but the AC boost would give the advantage to the one handed wield...
For Paladin tanks, I recommend the Fey Foundling trait, to boost all the Lay on Hands you will be using on yourself. For that same purpose, look into the Greater Mercy feat if your charisma will allow. I agree armor expert is nice.
Is either WIS or INT related to the number of feats you can take? It seems like I had fewer options once I tanked those two stats. Or maybe it was something else...
Finally, when you get to pick your divine bond, I'd pick the mount. A heavy CON mount with Combat Reflexes + Bodyguard + In Harm's Way is amazing for tanking.
Sounds good to me.
There is a paladin archetype that allows you to make a bond with your armor as well.
Looks like this option replaces the bond with mount option, I'm leaning toward the mount atm. Should probably decide now though as it looks like I could take the Shining Knight archetype if I want to go with the mount.
Design Manager
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INT and WIS aren't related to the number of feats you can take, since that's a set number, but tanking those two stats may mean there's a large number of feats you don't qualify for. It also means you're going to be down to 1 skill point per level, which kind of sucks for PFS since there's actually quite a few encounters where skills are more important / as important as combat proficiency.
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Design Manager
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There is a paladin archetype that allows you to make a bond with your armor as well.Looks like this option replaces the bond with mount option, I'm leaning toward the mount atm. Should probably decide now though as it looks like I could take the Shining Knight...
Mounts are much less useful in PFS than in other play settings in my experience (at least for medium creatures). I've found that a lot of Society play occurs while your mount is tied up outside somewhere, or left at the dungeon entrance, or left at the top of the cliff...
The weapon or armor bond is probably going to see a lot more use.|
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INT and WIS aren't related to the number of feats you can take, since that's a set number, but tanking those two stats may mean there's a large number of feats you don't qualify for. It also means you're going to be down to 1 skill point per level, which kind of sucks for PFS since there's actually quite a few encounters where skills are more important / as important as combat proficiency.
Actually I think that is what I was thinking of. I had more skill points before I tanked those two. I might try to play around with his abilities to get more skills back, but not sure it will be possible without sacrificing things that I can't afford to be without like AC or DPS.
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You'll be able to afford the armour by the time you hit second level, a dwarf paladin should be able to survive that long with 16 or so AC...
Actually, the first setting I played was the "We Be Goblins" special setting which awarded 500gp, so I would have had 650 to start out with anyway so he'd be okay either way...
He'll hit second level after the next session, which is why I'm trying to get my tweaks finalized now...
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get the advanced race guide and be a stonelord paladin. charisma isn't anywhere near as important so the -2 to cha isn't a big deal. all you really lose is more lay on hands.
i have a stonelord paladin in pfs with a 5 cha, just because i could. i have tons of fun, his physical stats are awesome, and all he really loses is the ability to lay on hands until level 8 :) hasn't been an issue with as many hp and high armor class though.
and even if you aren't silly like me and still keep an ok cha (10 imo is perfectly ok) your mercy you get at 6th level can cure fatigue, so you can use your defensive stance multiple times per encounter.
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I'm new to PFS though I have played D&D for many years, so I'm looking for some input and to check if my thinking on this process is correct or not.
I have decided to start a Dwarf Paladin for our PFS group, partly because I play a Dwarf Paladin in some other games and thought it would be fun but also because the group I am joining lacks a tank or a dedicated healer. This character would be intended to fill more the role of tank than healer, but I do want to take advantage of the paladin healing abilities as much as possible too.
I think that you are trying to be a lot of things all at once here, and you are starting to feel it.
Lets ask a few questions:
1. You mention a steady group.. what are they? Give roles and bit on each so we can picture them.
2. You want to be a dwarf... but I'm not seeing what from dwarf that you really want. A human 'dwarf' ala Carrot or the like might prove much more to your liking. As you are investing in CHA and looking to tank WIS, dwarf seems to be a poor mathematical choice and part of why you are feeling the stat burn.
3. Stonelord is a nice archetype for dwarves in that it divests yourself from CHA... and lets you focus on being a tank.
What are your goals for this character, and in what order?
-James
Dwarf wasn't necessarily a statistical choice but more just a personal one. There are two types of characters that I have always gravitated towards which are the Elven Ranger (which the group already has one of) and the Dwarf Paladin/Fighter type. I figured since the group also doesn't have great options for healing, that a paladin might be handy if he can tank and also do some at least moderate healing.
Right now there is a Elven Ranger who just hit level 3, a Dwarf Wizard that wasn't at the last session and is level 2 I believe, a halfling druid who also just hit level 3, and a new guy that played a pregen last time but is apparently building a halfling fighter type... (I just found this last part out a few minutes ago).
If there is going to be another tank class in the group now I might look at dropping my STR a point or so and redirecting some of that towards other areas. This new info may change my approach a bit... probably not a lot since I'm already most of the way there, but some...