Friendly Switch."As part of your movement or as a 5-foot-step, you can move into the space occupied by an ally of your size or smaller, which displaces the ally into the space you just left".
Today I had a really hard problem with one of my adventure character player. He makes his 30ft movement, steps into the wizards space and he wants to move the wizard, not into the space he just left (5 feet before the wizard), but into the square he left at the begging of his movement, 30ft away.
I didn't let him to do it. Because the "space you just left" I believe means the square 5-foot-step near your target. What do you think?
I would say you are right. During a movement, you are leaving multiple spaces in succession not just jumping straight from your original space to the new one at the end of your movement. Since it references "the space you just left", that means you would move him to the space you most recently left during your movement 5 ft away.
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One of my ally make a remarkable action today.
We name the squares as A1, A2, A3.... He have 120ft. speed. He begin with A1, Tom he want to move begin with A2. He go from A1 to A3, then A2 and switch Tom to A3. Then he move from A2 to A4, then A3 and switch Tom to A4....finally, he move his ally Tom for 40ft.
It's unbelieveable, but RAW, is legal?
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Hey Julien. I know English is not your primary language, so this is a little hard to understand without a diagram. Did your players try to switch in one move, or was Tom being "dragged" by the other PC in a series of moves? The first one isn't how the feat works, but the second one appears to be legal per the way the feat is worded.
Let's call them (T)om and (J)erry. (X) represents empty spaces that were occupied at one point during the movement.
1) Starting position
J
T
2) Tom starts his move by moving into Jerry's space and using Friendly Switch
T
J
3) Tom moves back through Jerry and to the next square behind him without using Friendly Switch
X
J
T
4) Tom moves into Jerry's space using Friendly Switch
X
T
J
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4
X
X
T
J
6) Repeat until Tom runs out of movement
X
X
X
X
X
X
X
X
J
T
This appears to work.
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Benefit: As part of your movement or as a 5-foot-step, you can move into the space occupied by an ally of your size or smaller, which displaces the ally into the space you just left. Your ally must be willing and able to move and able to occupy the space you were in. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This does not count toward your ally’s movement on his next turn.
:-(
It seems to be RAW, but I think it is very much against RAI.Tom is moved 40' without spending movement and without provoking.
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Hey Julien. I know English is not your primary language, so this is a little hard to understand without a diagram. Did your players try to switch in one move, or was Tom being "dragged" by the other PC in a series of moves? The first one isn't how the feat works, but the second one appears to be legal per the way the feat is worded.
** spoiler omitted **
Yes, it just as your Diagram showed.
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Seekers of Secrets was a great book overall, but did have a few things that were either a bit out of scale or weren't thought out all the way. Note that when I say "out of scale" I don't necessarily mean that they shouldn't exist, just that they were more generally useful than similar options in other books. SoS came out just after the Core Rulebook, and it wasn't until after the APG the next year that the power level really settled down (before then no one was really sure what the power level *was*).
Boon Companion was in that book, as were the first cracked and flawed ioun stones, and all the resonant ioun stone powers.
The ioun stone problem is that some of the cracked stones are just really cheap for what they do or grant bonus types that aren't otherwise available. (See cracked Pale green prism.) And if you use the stated resonance percentages (75% of normal and 25% of cracked or flawed) it can be way cheaper to go after the resonance by buying a fistful of cracked stones instead of regular stones. (See opalescent white pyramid or orange prism.)
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no.
the space that was just left is the 5ft square behind you. same as if you left the space and provoked an AoO.
you move the ally into the 5ft square you just left.
spaces arent skipped, you actually enter and exit each square on a map using normal movement, you arent teleported 40 ft because you moved 40 ft, mechanically you moved into a 5ft square 8 times. not took 1 40 ft step
edit: didnt see the diagram post. yeah, you can run back and forth moving an ally each time you move threw their space. its dumb, but its legal.
i thought it was just a 40 ft move then claim the ally was tossed 40 ft behind you
Friendly switch does not say you can use it multiple times per round. Most GM I know would not allow you to pull off playing ping pong with another character. Personally, I would consider the allies movement as a free action and invoke the GM’s option of limiting the number of free actions.
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Actually, He is a Spiritualist. He make his Incorporeal Phantom to drag a ally who is in dangerous place. Incorporeal Phantom is immune to non-magic weapon and the ally's movement does not provoke AoO, so they are both safe in the movement. Incorporeal Phantom has a fly speed of 40ft, Haste grants additional 30ft, so he can move 140ft per round. By re-use Friendly switch, Incorporeal Phantom can drag an ally 1 square by 15ft move. finally, Incorporeal Phantom draged the ally in danger for 45ft.
If I run the game, I may not let him do that. But we are in PFS groups, so rule is rule.
An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.
An incorporeal creature cannot move anything. Unless the Phantom has something that allows him to interact with the normal items this will not work.
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Em..as Friendly Switch says, the Incorporeal Phantom move into the square his ally occupy and "displaces the ally into the space you just left". It also require the ally can and willing to move. So, IMO, they switch squares on their own, not the Incorporeal Phantom actually drag his ally.
Although I prefer this conclusion, the argumentation is not solid enough.
You elbow an ally out of the way, and take his place on the battlefield.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As part of your movement or as a 5-foot-step, you can move into the space occupied by an ally of your size or smaller, which displaces the ally into the space you just left. Your ally must be willing and able to move and able to occupy the space you were in. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This does not count toward your ally’s movement on his next turn.
The first sentence states you elbow an ally out of the way. The second bolded section stats your movement displaces the ally. That makes it clear you are the one moving your ally. Then there is the fact that this movement does not count against the ally's movement makes it clear you are moving them, instead of them moving under their own power.
You elbow an ally out of the way, and take his place on the battlefield.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As part of your movement or as a 5-foot-step, you can move into the space occupied by an ally of your size or smaller, which displaces the ally into the space you just left. Your ally must be willing and able to move and able to occupy the space you were in. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This does not count toward your ally’s movement on his next turn.
The first sentence states you elbow an ally out of the way. The second bolded section stats your movement displaces the ally. That makes it clear you are the one moving your ally. Then there is the fact that this movement does not count against the ally's movement makes it clear you are moving them, instead of them moving under their own power.
The first sentance is flavor text, not rules mechanics text. Its a good indicator for RAI, but it is not RAW.
Incorporeals "cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment" - does that mean they can take physical actions that move their allies?
The first sentence may be flavor, but the second bolded portion is not. Your move is what is displacing the ally. Your move is a physical action that is moving something. If they ally was moving by themselves the movement would be deducted from their movement either on the current turn or the next.
Let’s say the target being moved is a gnome in full plate or with a heavy load. That character has a movement of 10. If they use a double move, they can move 20 ‘. So, if the incorporeal phantom is not dragging the gnome if full plate why is it able to move twice as far as it normally could without any of that movement counting against its movement?
The enchantment Ghost Touch makes it clear that an incorporeal creature cannot affect normal items or creatures.
The first sentence may be flavor, but the second bolded portion is not. Your move is what is displacing the ally. Your move is a physical action that is moving something. If they ally was moving by themselves the movement would be deducted from their movement either on the current turn or the next.
Let’s say the target being moved is a gnome in full plate or with a heavy load. That character has a movement of 10. If they use a double move, they can move 20 ‘. So, if the incorporeal phantom is not dragging the gnome if full plate why is it able to move twice as far as it normally could without any of that movement counting against its movement?
The enchantment Ghost Touch makes it clear that an incorporeal creature cannot affect normal items or creatures.
...which displaces the ally into the space you just left. Your ally must be willing and able to move and able to occupy the space you were in. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This does not count toward your ally’s movement on his next turn...
Your ally must be able and willing to move. So displacement in this case is not physically moving them out of the way. The ally moves themselves out of the way. And it doesn't cost them any of their movement because the rules for this ability tells us that it does not (compare and contrast with the Step Up feat).
At best you might argue that this ability requires the active character to push or shove a character who then willingly accepts the push or shove to change positions. But that isn't a spelled out rules mechanic. The mechanic is "you move into their space, they move into yours" with no further explanation of how or why that happens.
As for the gnome in full plate example, they are being displaced 5'. Not double their movement. Unless of course you take the RAW purist approach to allow a fast moving creature to loop back and keep using this ability on allies until it runs out of movement. RAW is stupid sometimes.
What seems strange is that you can move father than you physically can because of the actions of someone else who does not move you. For example, I have a character that makes a double move and ends up behind the character with the feat. At this point I have move the maximum I am allowed to move in a turn. The character with the feat then moves into my space moving me an additional 5’. I have now moved 5’ more than my maximum movement. On my next move I make another double move and still move my full movement.
If I was not shoved or dragged forward, how did I move? What is allowing me to move farther than I normally can? It makes no sense that the presence of another character that is in my way allows me to move an extra 5’. Now if that character is dragging me forward as part of his move that does make sense.
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You elbow an ally out of the way, and take his place on the battlefield.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As part of your movement or as a 5-foot-step, you can move into the space occupied by an ally of your size or smaller, which displaces the ally into the space you just left. Your ally must be willing and able to move and able to occupy the space you were in. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This does not count toward your ally’s movement on his next turn.
The first sentence states you elbow an ally out of the way. The second bolded section stats your movement displaces the ally. That makes it clear you are the one moving your ally. Then there is the fact that this movement does not count against the ally's movement makes it clear you are moving them, instead of them moving under their own power.
Sounds reasonable.
The bolded "which" indicates the whole action, not the square . "your" whole action displace the ally into the square "you" just left. So it's more like a drag.
Another question.
Can enemies go through the squares that Incorporeal occupied？
Can other creatures share the same square with Incorporeal?
Creatures are not allowed to share the same space unless one of them is helpless (or some other rule/factor allows it). Incorporeal doesn't list anything that changes this, so by default, no you cannot share a space with an incorporeal.
For moving through a incorporeal, if they are an ally yes. If not, you can use acrobatics to try and move through them as per normal, and if the acro roll fails you are stopped.
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A friend says "they (incorporeals) can’t take any physical actions that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions", so when another creature come in a incorporeal's square, the incorporeal can't push him away, actually. there is no physical collision.
IMO, literally, it's over-interpretation. While a incorporeals who stand in the way, in a narrow passage, enemies without magic weapon can not damage it, can not pass it. it's a awkward scene.
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IMO, literally, it's over-interpretation. While a incorporeals who stand in the way, in a narrow passage, enemies without magic weapon can not damage it, can not pass it. it's a awkward scene.
Consider what an adventurer that wants to pass through a typical incorporeal creature is doing: "There is an ethereal figure in the middle of the passage. Its touch drains you of your life." "No problem, I run through it!"
I doubt that passing through an incorporeal creature will be a pleasant experience, especially if it is an undead powered by negative energy and the character is alive. It has no game effect, but game effects aren't everything in a Role Playing Game.
To me, the scene where a character nonchalantly pass through it seem more awkward.
Can enemies go through the squares that Incorporeal occupied？
Can other creatures share the same square with Incorporeal?
RAW, no. But there are a bunch of exceptions to the general rules that boil down to "it's the physical bodies that hinder you". THere is no exception for incorporeal, but there very much should be.
I doubt that passing through an incorporeal creature will be a pleasant experience, especially if it is an undead powered by negative energy and the character is alive.
That is not something that should be represented by preventing movement, though, Maybe a will save, or touch attack effect being automatically applied, but an incorporeal physically preventing movement makes absolutely no sense.
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I doubt that passing through an incorporeal creature will be a pleasant experience, especially if it is an undead powered by negative energy and the character is alive.That is not something that should be represented by preventing movement, though, Maybe a will save, or touch attack effect being automatically applied, but an incorporeal physically preventing movement makes absolutely no sense.
You can pass through them by tumbling, as for all other opponents. It is even easier as they don't have a strength score. You have to make that check when you pass a 5'x5' square occupied by a guy the size of a child, even if you too have the size of a child.
At the same time, the incorporeal creature needs to make the same check to pass through you.In previous editions "being incorporeal" was "being ethereal", and an ethereal creature couldn't pass through a living being. A wall was not a problem, but an ivy-covered wall was an obstacle.
Some of that is still in the game, as the incorporeal creature must make a tumbling check to pass through another creature's square.
If you want to add rules, fine, but the RAW is very simple: "You need to make a tumbling check to pass through a creature (unless there is a difference of two sizes or more)-"
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Another statement of passing through:
A creature can not go into or pass through a square occupied by enemy because the enemy block it physically, maybe elbow it out of the occupied square. However, Incorporeals wrote, "They can’t perform trip or grapple combat maneuvers, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they can’t take any physical actions that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment." Obviously, Incorporeals can not elbow others out of its square.
And 0 Str score show the same result. If someone's Str reduce to 0, it is unconscious and helpless, and helpless creature occupy no square and can be passed through. Incorporeals is 0 Str score, which means they can do nothing to manipulate the physical world.
It's not my opinion. A friend stated it and convinced most GMs of our group.
Incorporeals is 0 Str score, which means they can do nothing to manipulate the physical world.
Incorporeals do not have a strength score of 0, they simply do not have a strength score, eg their score is -. These are not equivalent.
Str 0 means the creature is unconscious (str 1 means the creature takes a -5 to melee attack rolls and damage). Str - means the creature simply isn't affected by things that target str, or can not do things that call for a str check.