Mythic and Divinity

Mythic Adventures Playtest General Discussion

Lantern Lodge

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This is all based on 3e/3.5e mechanics which I was working on years ago, and while I understand that Paizo has taken a significantly directed stance on topics like Divine Rank and Epic levels, this is just my input and recommendations, and someone who already plans on making Mythic a part of my own game-mechanics understanding, and possible future writing topics. I also don't contribute to the boards much, and I don't expect many people to give this thread two squints, I want to mention it anyway. I am hoping Jason/devs will see it, and at least take it in. The public pages about it are still up online.

As a personal request, please don't just nay-say the idea and smack-talk, since I don't really have the time to put you in your place. If the Paizonians want to look at it, I am leaving it up to them, and ask you to put forward either productive advice, or none at all. Thanks.

I once created a system called Inath (the Cabala Inata) - it was very much based on the general 3.5-era lore of D&D, and especially the planar aspects of it, as well as the new ideas I was working on at the time. It is located here:

This system was essentially constructed as a means for a PC, monster, villain, or other being to take on higher and more divine power, in a manner very similar to the proposed Mythic Adventures setup, but with a distinctive attachment to Divine Rank. The system was heavily influenced by my own personal writings on the languages (and their roots/origins) and the ancient powerful bloodlines, such as dragons, sylvans, sentient undead, magical/supernatural beasts, and others. Along with that, all of the naming conventions and ideas associated with the levels and tiers, were based on a combination of Kaballah and the fictional spiritual system of Storm Constantine's novel series, Wraeththu. All of it was geared with the intention of breaking up Divine Rank into a more player-approachable manner, and allowing characters/creatures of any background to become more powerful than mere mortals (exactly what we are doing here). It also included definitive notions about the immortality of spirit, mind, and body, attachments to bloodlines and powerful elements (Affinities) to fuel their spiritual power, and even Inath Quests (Mythic Quests) to achieve higher attainment between the levels and tiers. The system also assumes a four-plane transitive plane system, and these planes have substance and energies similar to the four elements (fire, earth, air, water); achieving understanding over these underlying planar "elements" and concepts allows the creature to use their abilities through a particular means (Knowledge and special Craft skill checks, and sometimes Ego/Spirit rolls, as well as magic (spell-slot or spell point) or Inath Point expenditure to fuel the abilities).

Not all of these abilities would translate easily or very well into Mythic Adventures mechanics, however, I think it is intrinsically necessary to describe and detail how these new options might translate over into Divine Rank or at least a comparative power between the deities (Demigods, Lesser, Intermediate, and Greater Deities). If it's not included outright (which is probably most likely), it would be still be incredibly helpful and even necessary to a degree, that the Mythic system at least be crafted in a manner which allows someone like me to translate these levels and abilities over into a such a way that "divine PCs" might take part in "quasi-deity" campaigns - and you can bet your bottom dollar that I will want to be able to refer to Mythic Adventures without much hassle or extra description.

Most of this it looks like you're covering. But let's say a spiritual war breaks out between Mythic figures. Specifically in mechanical situations where it might be nice to have a determining dice roll or steady DC check, I have found that Ego (from Intelligent Items) can translate pretty well over for such a need, and for those instances where the DC is based more on a creature's inherent divinity (or Mythic ability) than on their focused intention, a similar Spirit check/score was also devised; creatures with even more spiritual understanding and deeper access might even be able to wield their Spirit score as if it was their Ego bonus. Please see: and - Interestingly, when I put down 'Applicable Statistic,' I had no way of knowing they Mythic Adventures would be set up in such a way to immediately provide such a score, based on their Mythic Level type.

The system attempts to implement Deific Portfolio and Domain items into a creature/character's progression, based somewhat on their original divine power (the Affinity, which might be a magical/divine bloodline, or other powerful substance/energy), and also on the energies of their Divine Spark and its planar association. These are called the Veils (Ether), Spheres (Shadow), Umbra (Astral) and Permea (substantial Astral, or sub-elemental); they have their own Knowledge paths and Crafts, which allow a PC or creature to use deeper and more potent powers. They have a more/less potent affect on a creature's specific abilities and weaknesses in many ways, but it seems like you have covered a lot of this already.

I might recommend the idea of the active/passive rolls/DC in situations with arguable results. Ego is similar to an item's sentient power, raised through the means of Mythic Levels, and Spirit is an underlying individual's power, separate from their own hubris and intention - sometimes it's a roll, and sometimes a static DC - Ego is almost always a roll, at least so far as we could determine through our own playtesting.

In my assumptions, some races had immortal souls inherently, some gained them through achievement/insights, and some were prevented from immortality, like cursed races (ie, Book of Vile Darkness humanoids, the Vashar, I think...?). After this soul-oriented mortality concern (whether or not the soul moves on to an Outer Plane or post-life existence, possible to be raised, etc.), comes the mind and body - body can be split up, like monks have it in stages. Finally, after achieving a certain level of divine potency (and potency in this sense is only raised through followers/worshipers, not dependent upon them), Divine Rank is achieved. Divine Rank 0 (and this is all 3.5 SRD material here) is split up over the mind and body mortality ascension, with Divine Rank 1 (and the PC's first full Salient Divine Power) being the highest tier of three levels, and post-tier progression going into Divine Rank 2-21+.

In this system, the progression is Uninitiated, Initiate (no Divine Rank), First Tier (3 sub-levels; Divine Rank 0), Second Tier (3 sub-levels; Divine Rank 0), Third Tier (3 sub-levels; Divine Rank 1), and onwards (Divine Rank 2+) without too much more subdivision of divine abilities. I only mention it because it could help you to find a way to also open up a Divine-Rank-like system of simple translation of terms. I loved Deities & Demigods, so forgive me if you don't. I had a lot of time on my hands to think about how to best deal with it in my own stories.

Also, a last note - I was trying to set the system up in a way where one might ascend either with a group, under a mentor, or as an individual practitioner, with perhaps each method having its own bonus or weakness attributed, which the others would not have access to. I was trying to make it both diverse/approachable by all, and specific enough to let the individual PC feel unique.

So, the big thing is, I want to be able to tell/show my players how their Mythic Levels might translate or compare against their Divine Rank, or at least to how they might one day approach the known power of the deities as the lay-folk know them. Even in the myths, gods can be killed, and their power stolen or re-distributed, and while Mythic Levels might only be 1st-10th, there is nothing preventing a PC, villain, or monster from trying to achieve more than that. How they line up when compared to other gods might make it much easier to rationalize the power we have come to think that the deities hold (concretely) in a much more fluid manner.

Again, this is not a, "Here's you solution!" post, but an insight into a system that was attempting to do just what we all hope to seek here, and showing it as a complex base concept of how I had attempted to break down the old system into something more approachable to most players, so that the deities in the Deities & Demigods book wouldn't seem like such high-handed powers-that-be, and could possibly even be taken down as a foe by someone with the right resources, divine power, and a good plan. It would be really nice to see Mythic Adventures provide the perfect platform for that to take place. I AM *very* interested in the upcoming material, and hope to make the best use of it when it gets to my house. Good luck!

Ok, thanks! :)

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