after rereading the ready action rule I have realized that you can take a 5 foot step as part of a ready action.
thus if you are standing next to an archer and say "I ready an action to swing at him if he shoots that bow" he can take a 5 foot step back and start shooting but you also get to 5 foot step up to him and take your readied attack.
however.. After that attack do you still get your AoO allowing you to effectively attack twice?
also... after the archer 5 foot steps back and begins to shoot triggering your 5 foot step and attack can the archer chose to NOT take the shot and move back again in order to get out of your threat?
if he does chose to NOT shoot and moves back is that now a part of his second movement (in other words is he now using his standard action to move) or is he simply turning his 5 foot step into a normal move action to get out of range.
You can ready one action. You can not ready an action to attack and 5 foot step. You can ready an action to follow him if he steps and then he provokes.
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I see no reason why not. Archer five foots away and commits to a ranged attack triggering your readied action. You interrupt the archer, five foot step and attack (normal attack). He continues with his turn and the ranged attack triggering an attack of opportunity from anyone threatening him (you). You interrupt again with a second attack (Attack of Opportunity).
As for the archer changing his mind about the attack, I would rule no he cannot. His action of firing the bow is what triggered your readied action. Cause and effect. Without the cause there is no effect. The effect has been resolved the cause must remain else there never should have been an effect in the first place.
or is he simply turning his 5 foot step into a normal move action to get out of range.
I'll be perfectly honest, I've not gone digging to find RAW to support that this is not allowed, but this is not allowed. Especially after so many other actions have been resolved. If he changes his initial movement from a 5-foot to a normal movement then he would have provoked as soon as he moved from your square. It requires "rewinding" and redoing combat.
Again I've not gone digging to support, nor am I even certain RAW does support, this ruling but barring some kind of gross combat-changing mistake I don't rewind or redo decisions. It's messy.
if you are standing next to an archer and say "I ready an action to swing at him if he shoots that bow" he can take a 5 foot step back and start shooting but you also get to 5 foot step up to him and take your readied attack.
You may want to mention that you'll take a 5' step if needed as part of your readied action, but yeah.
After that attack do you still get your AoO allowing you to effectively attack twice?
If he provokes, the readied action does not prevent you from taking an AoO.
after the archer 5 foot steps back and begins to shoot triggering your 5 foot step and attack can the archer chose to NOT take the shot and move back again in order to get out of your threat?
If you're adjacent to the archer, with a readied action as above, and he takes a 5' step, nothing happens yet. When he goes to shoot, this triggers your action, in which you take a 5' step and attack him, before he actually shoots. When he does shoot, he probably provokes, and you can hit him again. He cannot move again because he took a 5' step.
It's debatable if the archer can choose not to shoot, since his decision to shoot is what triggered the readied action. It gets kind of weird when you interrupt his action but act before it happens.
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You can ready one action. You can not ready an action to attack and 5 foot step. You can ready an action to follow him if he steps and then he provokes.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. (...)
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
Also, Blue, may I direct you to the Step Up and Step Up and Strike feats. Really really useful for situations exactly like what you're describing here.
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You can ready a move, standard, or free action. 5-foot-step is a non-action and can be added to a readied action that is not otherwise movement. This is explicitly stated; Finlander is wrong. It is unclear as to whether the 5-foot-step has to be provided as part of declaration of the readied action or not. My opinion is that the intent of how 5-foot-steps work as a tactical adjustment should allow it without declaration; YMMV. It starts to really split hairs and cause friction to require that a conditional "if needed" is required; it's far easier to just say it can be done.
If he 5-foot-steps back, nothing has triggered. When he then shoots, it triggers your 5-foot-step and readied action. He does not have the option to break it off. Your readied action comes first. After your readied action, his completion of the attack will provoke the AoO as well. While he doesn't have the option to not take the first attack, if the archer's intent was to make multiple shots, he does have the choice to not take the additional shots if he fears that you have Combat Reflexes.
A 5-foot-step cannot be combined with other movement. The 5-foot-step is also not just the first five feet of regular movement. Having taken the 5-foot step, he cannot make additional movement under any circumstances with the exception of an additional rules source, such as a feat or class ability that would allow making a 5-foot-step along with another type of movement.
read readying an action again.
Readying an ActionYou can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
I was surprised when I read this. I dont know if its a recent change or just something no one ever pays attention to.
it basically says that when I ready an action to swing my sword at the guy casting a spell I am free to add a 5 foot step to that action. i dont have to ready a 5 foot step I can simply take it as part of the readied action. the action is to attack, as part of that action i take a 5 foot step to get into range to attack.
You can ready one action. You can not ready an action to attack and 5 foot step. You can ready an action to follow him if he steps and then he provokes.Also, Blue, may I direct you to the Step Up and Step Up and Strike feats. Really really useful for situations exactly like what you're describing here.You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. (...)
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
I personally despise the step up feats. they should be totally intuitive actions. kind of like power attack you should not need a feat to close with an opponent that steps back just like you should not need a feat to swing hard with less accuracy.
so I am aways trying to find ways to make this more efficient.
it turns out that the only thing step up does is allow you to make the move without a readied action.
But only if you haven't / don't move any other distance during the round. This is the difficult part, as you'd usually move into position and then ready. If your readied action gets triggered before the end of the round, no step for you because you've already moved a distance in the round. If your readied action doesn't get triggered until NEXT round, you're golden.
you and Joesi are right.
if I moved up to the guy I cant then take the 5 foot step
I personally think this is a flaw in the game. but mostly because I think it should be easier to stay in melee with some one.
but still. if you work out a situation where you start the round next to some one (maybe by using a hero point) it works out pretty well.
also note... that same flaw exists in the step up feat.
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Step up affects movement on your next turn. You can take a move action to be adjacent to someone, ready an action to attack when they cast / fire a bow, use the step up and strike feat when they 5-foot step away from you and attack, then use your AoO for when they cast / fire.
The 5-foot step in the step up feat line counts against your action economy in your next turn, not the present.
good point.
all of this points to why i think the combat system needs a bit of an overhaul.
but it also leaves a lot of options...
i mean. i can move up... then use the hero point to move my initiative and ready an action. but hero points dont come cheep
or you can just skip the whole idea of readying an action and sunder his bowstring. he can't op attack you, he's wielding a bow.
