Hi I have been trying to figure out how to make the magus/hexcrafter work.
I seem to come up with the same conclusion every time - the magus just doesn't work until midtlevels. And late at that..
Why? First defensively. He starts in light armor. Has d8's for HD.
He has a few spells - so less assume he uses his spells to stay alive at low level.
He is still in light armor, we choose str based since we can go Kensei. So dex is low. Okay doesn't look good.
Next offensively - again low level not enough spells to use offesively (since we assume we want to stay alive - and use the few spells we have to get closer to a decent AC.)
So we co with Hexcrafter - get an unlimited uses of a few hex's- great - we have solved the to few spells to use offensively.
We get our first at lvl 5. So we have just used 1/3 of a paizo AP just trying to keep alive...
Now Slumber! SLEEP! But wait - why not just play a witch instead? More Hexes. Because you can walk into melee and fight? - Not really at level 7 you get medium armor but you are still a soft target. Less so than before everything helps.
Now I've seen people with they intencified shocking grasps critting - and yes we autocrit when we wake sleeping foes with sword in the face along with a shocking grasp - but he's already asleep - just kill the other foes and gang up on the sleeping beuty...
And yes there will be fights that ends early if the magus happen to crit.. But that's luck...
Now I've tried comming up with solutions to being a soft target 2 monk levels and crane style +wing - great now people can't hit me - but I can't hit them either...
or just a one level monk so I can deliver hex strikes with unarmed striks as a swift action.. action economy is great - but how do I hot things?
So here is what I wanna know - how do you keep a magus alive from 1-7 and still contribute to the party?
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I am playing a strengthed based magus (actually a int based magus, but strength is his secondary and his dex is crap) and am currently level 11. Here is the Truth. It is hard and survivability is an issue for levels 5-8. I dropped about a dozen times in those levels and died twice. So here are some things to consider:
-Make friends with the cleric. Healing is awesome and raise dead is important. But buffing is huge.
-Save some gold for healing. Resoration and raise dead cost money.
-know lots of defensive spells. Mirror image is the big one here.
-Buy good armor. save up for some serious armor. You can make your weapon good so spend it on AC. Ring of protection, AoNA, and +3 adi breast plate can save your ass. oh and a wand of shield! (wand master is great here)
-Get a high int. This is the reason I am alive. Bonus spells, save DCs (Magus have alot of battlefield control available) and knowledges have saved me time and time again.
-Kneecapping. My character is a dwarf so that is what it is called when he one shots the BBEG. Empower spell discovery is amazing for this. A +3 intensified, empowered shocking grasp (or my favorite: force punch when you can get it) with a Dwarven waraxe power attacking will lay waste to enemies.
-Know your limits. My character often runs ahead and gets punished for it but knowing when to back off and use field control/area of effect is a huge boon.
Strength is really fun but in the middle there it can get dicey. but play them smart and they wreck the world. especially at level 9+
So i Guess i'm right...
How does a str based Hexcrafter survives the first 1-7 (or 8) levels - he don't...
Spells are for defence - i like the wand of shield idea - so far i had only considered:
wand of true strike + trip
wand of ill omen + normal strike + swift action hexstrike: slumber
Wand of shield yes i should be able to afford that pretty early...
Kneecapping - when can you afford the spellslots? I guess earlier with a wand of shield..
- Know my limits - yes send the ones with high perception/AC/saves in front - I'll need time to buff...
I did thing I would just buy a greatsword the first few levels - with low to hit and terrible concentration spell combat seems risky.. Later there's items that should help with concentration...
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I found that with a high int I have plently of spell slots. Combine that with spell recall at level4 (I use it all the time) and you are looking good. Take the mooks and save your power during dungeons then lay waste to the boss with all your might. Never did the hex crafter though. Gotta which in the party. So I don't know how that would change things aside to further reenforce a high int character.
Magus don't have to use Spell Combat all the time. Early levels its usually much wiser to use reach weapon & perhaps enlarge. Note that Spellstrike works well with reach weapons. My advice would be to use mainly Long Spear until your Kensai/Hexcrafter gets to level 4. Then attack to closer quaters every now and then with the protection of Mirror Image (and at that point good Kensai bonus to AC+easily affordable Mage Armor potions).
can't be kensei + hexcrafter - both removes spell recall
Hmm spellstrike does work with a 2-handed weapon doesn't it?
Free action to let go with one hand - cast a spell - 5 foot steep, free action to place both hands on weapon - and then deliver the touch attack with your greatsword?
Spellstrike - the only 1 handed reach weapon I could find is whip, kobold tail attacment (im not a kold). A short spear don't have reach, and a longspear is twohanded...
yeah, i think it is more than do-able...
if you are wearing light armor and casting shield at low levels, you will probably have AT LEAST as good AC a fighter at 1st-2nd level, and probably better AC.
dip a level in fighter for full armor proficiency, and then you can use mithril breastplate without impeding casting in light armor, and mitrhil fullplate without impeding casting in medium armor. or just blow a feat - you are already ahead on feats vs. a DEX magus because they have to buy Weapon Finesse and you don't. other spells like mirror image should be usable to keep your melee defenses BETTER than most melee characters.
you shouldn't really be blowing spells on every attack in every encounter anyways, or always using spell combat, so using them on defensive abilities or things like enlarge person is a more than viable and very realistic approach.
if you have a good STR and have weapon that can benefit from 2-handing, then you are good to go. if you want to use a 2-hand-only reach weapon, then you can have armor spikes for the few times you need to attack adjacent enemies, or need/want to combo with spell combat (1h only). otherwise, holding the charge and delivering it with your 2h reach weapon (spellstrike)is a good tactic - i don't see why you couldn't also do a trip with that attack, possibly as an AoO.
whether or not you have 12-14 INT or 18-20 INT isn't going to actually affect the number of spells you have at low levels, so going lower (but still enough to get bonus spells of the levels you can cast) wont' affect your spells/day and won't affect any spells that don't have DCs - and most of the ones (for magus') that do have Saves will still do half dmg anyways. that enables higher STR and decent DEX/CON/WIS. I think this build is more than doable.
Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat (Core Rulebook 185). So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.
On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.
Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells.
Sean K Reynolds
Designer
So you can actually do (from level 2 on): Cast Shocking Grasp (standard), , Move & draw a weapon (move), Enchant weapon with Arcane Pool (swift), deliver the Shocking Grasp with attack (free, because of the Spellstrike).
At the early levels Spell Combat won't actually do more damage than 2h weapons (because of -2 to hit). So my basic instinct for STR magus would be to use reach weapons & hit hard (use spell slots to Shocking Grasp & Enlarge Person), if the party had another tank ; However if there is no other tank, then you basically have to use your spell slots to Shields & keep the frontline.
Hmm spellstrike does work with a 2-handed weapon doesn't it?
Free action to let go with one hand - cast a spell - 5 foot steep, free action to place both hands on weapon - and then deliver the touch attack with your greatsword?
Yes, FAQ says this works (even if the 5 foot step is replaced with a normal move).
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So...stat wise, 20 pt.
15 str (7) +2 racial
14 dex (5)
14 con (5)
10 wis (0)
15 int (7)
7 Cha (-4)
Chain shirt + shield spell + 2 dex = 20 AC...passable for the first few levels for defense.
You should have a decent to hit and damage for low levels with the 17 str.
Don't bother with damage spells at low levels (1-2). Alterself is a good long term buff at level 4...and by this time you may even use a few shocking grasps. With alter self and level up in str, your sitting at 20 str. Mirror image and blur add to defense when you need it.
You have to realize that your gonna be not as good as a fighter type continually...but you have nova potential. It's like any other caster...it's not so much about the build...it's more about HOW you play honestly.
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Magus don't have to use Spell Combat all the time. Early levels its usually much wiser to use reach weapon & perhaps enlarge. Note that Spellstrike works well with reach weapons. My advice would be to use mainly Long Spear until your Kensai/Hexcrafter gets to level 4. Then attack to closer quaters every now and then with the protection of Mirror Image (and at that point good Kensai bonus to AC+easily affordable Mage Armor potions).
What reach weapon beside the whip allow you to have the free hand needed for spell combat?
We have a hexcrafter magus currently, she is 4th level. She's a killing machine.
Cilk, as she is called, is a whip magus. She uses scorpion whip. It's really amazing how well this works.
Cilk has mediocre stats, I don't know them all off hand but I know they aren't stellar, she has a +1 damage from str, and I think her dex bonus is +2. she wears mwk leather studded armor with armor spikes.
She has one Hex so far, it's evil eye.
She's particularly useful with spell combat/spell strike in combat and pretty much just uses acid splash to get the extra attack via spellstrike, (she has close range arcana)
When she gets wand wielder, she's going to be a holy terror.
Cilk has come close to dying once so far but not too bad really, She's been knocked unconscious once. I think the big difference is she's using that whip instead of a sword.
Magus don't have to use Spell Combat all the time. Early levels its usually much wiser to use reach weapon & perhaps enlarge. Note that Spellstrike works well with reach weapons. My advice would be to use mainly Long Spear until your Kensai/Hexcrafter gets to level 4. Then attack to closer quaters every now and then with the protection of Mirror Image (and at that point good Kensai bonus to AC+easily affordable Mage Armor potions).What reach weapon beside the whip allow you to have the free hand needed for spell combat?
According to a different post any small sized reach weapon if you are willing to swallow the -2 to hit. :D
More seriously the SRD has the Scorpion Whip (lots of rule issues here),and the Flying Talon (appeared in crown of the kobold king so no idea if it's valid now),
Flying talon is in UC IIRC.
What are the rules issues with scorp whip, if you don't mind?
The Flying Blade in the UC is not the same weapon as the flying talon on the srd site (the talon is a light weapon that does 1d4).
The scorpion whip's problems are that when reprinted in the UC book it was not given reach, disarm, and trip like a whip just performance so now according to JJ if you use it as a whip it fully functions as one inluding the limits on what it can hurt and doing non leathal damage.
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Magus don't have to use Spell Combat all the time. Early levels its usually much wiser to use reach weapon & perhaps enlarge. Note that Spellstrike works well with reach weapons. My advice would be to use mainly Long Spear until your Kensai/Hexcrafter gets to level 4. Then attack to closer quaters every now and then with the protection of Mirror Image (and at that point good Kensai bonus to AC+easily affordable Mage Armor potions).What reach weapon beside the whip allow you to have the free hand needed for spell combat?
The Flickmace (Gnomes of Golarion)
Using 15 point builds. So can't really put much in dex...
Seems Bardiche is the best bet for a reach weapon - without going into exotic/splach books.
(1d10/19-20/x2) brace (if fighting zombies you might as well), reach...
And I guess you should could afford a lvl 1 wand around lvl 3 so if the first arcane is wand mastery you could buy a shield wand - buff in every combat and still have a few color spray and perhaps a frostbite - Am i right if i assume you could cast frostbite and same round deliver the free touch with your bardiche or greatsword - and the next 2 rounds again make an attack with bonus dam from the frostbite spell?
Whips... Don't like the feel much... But I guess scorpion Whips works...
This is good advice. I've been playing a Str based staff magus at level 2 and I'm quickly learning I should give up on major damage dealing and focus on defense for a while. I'm slowly wisening up and figuring out that shield and possibly control spells should be my bread and butter until much later... although at level 2 shocking grasp still has the most damage potential in a round for any member of the party so far (even when several others are at level 4 already)
Live charactors deal the most damage. Remember that...
a) The 2handed strategi is for low levels (1-3) when low to hit, few spells, bad concentration makes spellcombat unattractive.
So Spell Strike instead. Take hand of 2 handed weapon (free action) cast spell (standard action) - move to target (move action) and put hand on weapon (fre action) use an other free action to make a spellstrike with weapon.
b) Str based - so no Kensei. Sure i could make a str based Kensei and dip student of war2 at level 8 but that's not really an option if you gonna play from lvl 1. So no Kensei! HEXCRAFTER. (to deal with the lack of magus spells at low to midt level).
c) The problem i see with Kensie is Diminished Spellcasting - how can you choose that with a class that already have a serios lack of spell slots?
AND give up spell recall, the only ability that should help out with the lack of spells...
d) Yes frost bite cost me spellcombat, while I'm spending the charges. BUT since -2 is bad at low level, I fell it's better for level 1-4 to just use a 2handed weapon. And frostbite gives me addition damage for most of an encounter for only one spellslot (and as I've said I feel the magus seriously lacks spell slots.
This also helps with overcoming DR (if fighting things like zombies, skeletons). - or at least get some damage through.
e) At level 3 a Blackblade/hexcrafter (the build i have setteled on after discarding dexbased magus's.) Get's a free 1 handed magic weapon - so around here - perhaps not until lvl 5 2-handed is king.
I've been looking through the ultimate stuff guide and find myself thinking that the best possible weapon for a strength magus would be a masterwork or enchanted wyroot terbutje as it is basicly a wooden longsword and with an improved crit ability could be refunding arcane pool points 1/5th of the time
Wyroot - THAT AWESOME!
Okay with Slumber curse - make people sleep - get arcane pool filled op again!
Hmm too bad Black blades don't come with a special matrial option...
Ah wait - "When a weapon constructed of wyroot confirms a critical hit, it absorbs some of the life force of the creature hit. The creature hit is unharmed and the wyroot weapon gains 1 life point."
The creture is unharmed... So no more spell crits... Well I would still carry a wyroot club - hell capture a rat, tie it up - hit it with a wyroot club and it's unharmed! See magic! (and the magus gets free arcane poll point...)
How about a mounted mage with combat expertise ?
works especially well with a small magus and a wolf mount for trip.
Combat expertice - penalty to hit - that would make spellcombat even worse..
And woould you use a normal wolf? magus don't get mounts...
They can a get familiar - but large enough to use as a mount - not to my knowledge...
The Flying Blade in the UC is not the same weapon as the flying talon on the srd site (the talon is a light weapon that does 1d4).
The scorpion whip's problems are that when reprinted in the UC book it was not given reach, disarm, and trip like a whip just performance so now according to JJ if you use it as a whip it fully functions as one inluding the limits on what it can hurt and doing non leathal damage.
erm thats not what he said in the link.
Scorp whip is a lethal version of a whip, that also has the performance capability.
What he said in that link is, someone who has WP (or weapon Focus) in whip can use a scorp whip as a whip. much like someone can use a bastard sword as a two handed weapon, without taking the exotic WP for it.
Combat expertice - penalty to hit - that would make spellcombat even worse..
And woould you use a normal wolf? magus don't get mounts...
They can a get familiar - but large enough to use as a mount - not to my knowledge...
there is a TPP (if you use those) that has the hex "familiar growth" so if you took say, fox and a familiar, and you were a halfling or a gnome, it would let you ride your familiar as an animal companion, according to how the hex is written up. I think it's in advanced options, witch's hexes. A grown fox under those rules is treated as a wolf.
1/2 Orc
Str 16 (5+racial)
Dex 14 (5)
Con 12 (2)
Int 15 (7)
Wis 10 (0)
Cha 7 (-4)Alt racial: toothy, city-raised
traits: Magical lineage(duh, right?), Armor ExpertWhip when you want, bite when it would provoke. Trip combat maneuver is your friend. Enlarge person can be quite the boon (whip gets 30ft. reach). DCs aren't great, but a grease spell still slows them down when it doesn't knock them prone. At very low levels (1&2), scrolls and potions are very handy and affordable. Very soon after, a +1 mithril buckler is a cheap +2 to AC (2k gp). Also, carry a bow. Sure, your dex isn't great, but it's not terribad. You don't always have to frontline. You don't even have to switch out your bow, since you've got a natural attack (and a decent one at that.) Once you've got a reasonable pile of cash, a +1 mithril breastplate (5200 gp) is where you want to be.
Hey, Interesting, Half orc with toothy. I didn't think about how useful that could be.
Magus don't have to use Spell Combat all the time. Early levels its usually much wiser to use reach weapon & perhaps enlarge. Note that Spellstrike works well with reach weapons. My advice would be to use mainly Long Spear until your Kensai/Hexcrafter gets to level 4. Then attack to closer quaters every now and then with the protection of Mirror Image (and at that point good Kensai bonus to AC+easily affordable Mage Armor potions).What reach weapon beside the whip allow you to have the free hand needed for spell combat?
He's not talking about using spell combat.
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He's not talking about using spell combat.Magus don't have to use Spell Combat all the time. Early levels its usually much wiser to use reach weapon & perhaps enlarge. Note that Spellstrike works well with reach weapons. My advice would be to use mainly Long Spear until your Kensai/Hexcrafter gets to level 4. Then attack to closer quaters every now and then with the protection of Mirror Image (and at that point good Kensai bonus to AC+easily affordable Mage Armor potions).What reach weapon beside the whip allow you to have the free hand needed for spell combat?
Yes, but he is throwing away a class feature. So the question.
This tactic allow him 1 attack when he cast a spell (as he isn't using spell combat he can't make a full attack, he only get the bonus attack from the touch attack spell), so it don't seem to build on one of the main abilities of the class.
Playing a low level magus the ability to cast shield or enlarge or a ranged spell the first round of combat and still get some kind of melee attack is useful.
a) Throwing away a class feature. Well I think it makes sense at low level, once the magus starts having some spells/PoP and a better to hit the class feature starts to look better.
And you could have a 2-handed weapon AND a 1-handed weapon - and if faced with low AC/HP enemies spellcombat works fine, when facing higher AC or DR 2-handed weapon works better.
b) Arcane Duelist. Well i do think you are a bit biased in you analyses.
Getting abilities later is a BIG deal. The whole tread is about surviving low levels.
Arcane duelist don't get medium armor until lvl 10!
You don't even give the magus a point for having good saves i fort and Will - those are the kinda saves you die from not making. Reflex - is more of a full damage from a fireball kinda save...
I will give you " helping the whole team" this is where the bard works.
But thanks for the suggestion (same with the rest of you how have spendt time answering me...)
But back to "how does a low level MAGUS survive" :-)
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When someone exchange a polearm with reach for a 1 handed weapon in the middle of a fight I always ask what he is doing with the reach weapon.
Usually you don't drop you weapon hoping to recover it at the end of a fight.
I am currently playing a magus in a party without a character with full BAB. I am the heavy hitter ....
So:
1) you convince the cleric with rich parents that a character with AC 20 against your AC of 14 should take the role of the "wall";
2) you use shield to increase your AC an/or Enlarge to get reach;
3) you convince the Oracle of the Dark Tapestry that don't care about melee that healing you during a combat can be useful if he hasn't anything capable to damage the enemy;
4) you try to go down only after you have delivered enough damage to assure that the rest of the party can defeat the enemy and hopefully stabilize/heal you in time to save your life:
5) you learn when to run. And sometime that is the hardest part.
Well I had a Tri-Kreen in 3.5 that used a 2 handed weapon at low level - might as well if you can't get a full attack - drew it on the map, and picked it up after each fight...
He's not talking about using spell combat.Magus don't have to use Spell Combat all the time. Early levels its usually much wiser to use reach weapon & perhaps enlarge. Note that Spellstrike works well with reach weapons. My advice would be to use mainly Long Spear until your Kensai/Hexcrafter gets to level 4. Then attack to closer quaters every now and then with the protection of Mirror Image (and at that point good Kensai bonus to AC+easily affordable Mage Armor potions).What reach weapon beside the whip allow you to have the free hand needed for spell combat?Yes, but he is throwing away a class feature. So the question.
...Playing a low level magus the ability to cast shield or enlarge or a ranged spell the first round of combat and still get some kind of melee attack is useful.
Sure, I can understand why you might ask to hear more about his pro/con analysis of using Spell Combat or not, but why would you ask if he has some special Reach weapon which leaves 1 hand free (enabling Spell Combat), when he's discussing NOT using Spell Combat? Anyways...
I find Reach Weapons are a great way to get a free attack against an enemy moving to attack you (or an ally, etc).
This full BAB attack incidentally is pretty much equivalent to one you would get for attacking normally (e.g instead of spending the round casting a Spell), and of course you get the full benefit of this strategy WITHOUT spending a Full-Round action on Full Attack/Spell Combat, meaning it's usable in more situations including Surprise Rounds (and you can spend the Move Action to position yourself optimally for safe casting and 'drawing' the AoO from the enemy). One can continually position one-self to take AoO's, cast buff spells/spellstrike spells, take AoOs that damage/trip/disarm/etc enemies that move towards you, while never getting attacked.
As with all users of Reach Weapons, Combat Reflexes is a good one to take, which happens to be easy to fit in since you aren't spending the Feat for Weapon Finesse. Combat Reflexes doesn't really need some UBER high DEX score, 12 or 14 is doubling or tripling the number of AoO's you can make, and one character being swarmed by more attackers than that is really such a niche scenario that the increased effectiveness (from a high STR score) really should outweight it in any over-all judgement.
As mentioned, Bardiche is a good combo of Martial Weapon, nice damage die, nice Crit Threat range.
AFAIK, there is one better one in the Carrion Crown material (or Ustalav CS?) but it is Exotic (...name escapes me...).
Incidentally, if one is using a Reach Weapon I would say that you functionally have lesser need for AC, since you can AoO many enemies who move close to you... Enlarge Person may even be more/as useful by making sure you keep Reach advantage against almost all enemies, as well as side-benefits of the STR boost/damage-die increase.
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Sure, I can understand why you might ask to hear more about his pro/con analysis of using Spell Combat or not, but why would you ask if he has some special Reach weapon which leaves 1 hand free (enabling Spell Combat), when he's discussing NOT using Spell Combat? Anyways..
Thread title: "How is the survivabilty of a low to midtlevel str based magus?". His reply was "use a reach weapon". So I asked if there was a reach weapon that allow you to use spell combat.
I have even got a few useful replies.You have expanded on his post and that is good, but less caffeine while writing the first part of your post would have been good too.
"which happens to be easy to fit in since you aren't spending the Feat for Weapon Finesse." I agree you have more feats to spare than a dex magus - but "easy" - since i consider the magus a relative weak class TIER 3 or 4 you could always use more feats.
The class have problems doing it's fundamental funktion - which is to walk into melee and cast spells while doing damage with it's weapon...
Not enough AC, not enough spell slots, not enough to hit.
Since all these things has to be adressed
AC - with spells, wand mastery + wand of shield, items and feat, dodge
Lack of spell slots, also wand mastery, Hexcrafter achetype, +extra arcane (feat), doing damage with weapon instead PA, weapon specialization, arcane strike,
Lack of to hit, bladblade achetype, arcane accuracy, weapon foucs, furios focus.
I hardly think fitting combat reflexes in there is "easy". But I see how it can be of value...
now reach weapons - since it's only for a few levels we don't wanna spend to much resorses on them - no feat, trait, or large sums of money - if we can help it. Unless we plan to use them our whole carrier as I guess you could with a scorpion whip...
Now I had planned on using a greatsword - but now Bardiche sounds like the better choise.... I'm learning!
So first of all this is retroactive theory craft, as this class has already been exhaustively play tested.
there was a lot of input into this class and a lot o changes as a result of that input.
It's a very potent class with tons of options and builds.
Whip seems to be a loophole of stupendous ramifications, that wasn't really gone into during play tests as everyone was focusing on the dervish dance band wagon.
Early on there was a lot of whining about low level survivability because several play testers were trying to waddle into combat with a rapier at level one and two and wondering why they were getting beat down.
My play test magus was a randomly rolled (no points build) character with a higher str than dex that fought with a falcata.
The group is running it's second magus, who WAS going to be a Kensai but got changed to a hexcrafter last minute.
The character has just recently picked up whip and is investing in the whip feat tree.
It is, absolutely 'holy cow'
However with that being said, the magus is really best played by someone who knows the ins and outs of playing a wizard or sorcerer, who now adds a melee mesh to that, rather than a person who is used to running say a barbarian now looking to cast spells too.
It's a complicated character that has resources to manage, and movement to consider.
Honestly a High initiative is a magus's ally, which makes the kensai such a popular archetype.
The player for our magus was really interested in the whole "kelles del" story arc, after reading it, and wanted to go the armored spellcaster route, which is why it was changed.....
Then WHIP was rediscovered.
Although the player hasn't discovered this yet, I might point out that a summoned mount combined with whip would be an incredible combination.
1) OP (that me) specifics HEXcrafter - so no Kensei as stated, because i feel hexcrafter needs to be dexbased - with a feat tax that I fell is to high.
If I ever have a senario starting at midt-level i might consider doing a kensei-student of war - but haven't done the math - and I think the 2 lvl dip will most likely cost to most.
2) Rebuild and don’t dip - besides crossblooded sorc you mean?
Cross blooded sorc just gives to much to miss.
I'm think lvl 8 (after magus get's the medium armor prof) - to make empowered shocking grasp (wayang spell hunter + magical linage - it's not a trait bonus - so they stack)- do some real damage...
3) I have considered sylph - but the seems okay for a dexbased magus - don't offer much to a str based that the flight hex doesn't already gives you - abit later though.
4) Staff magus - i'll have to have a look at him...
5) spellstrike vs spellcombat vs 2hw - Yes 2hw works with spellcombat only - i know :-)
6)Spells with charges - well we are talking LOW level - and I don't see how the magus should have enough spells or to hit to make spellcombat worth it at low level - later - yes. But at low level a frostbite that a) does a little extra dam for the rest of the fight and b) debuffs the enemy seems like a good idea - essensially since you have almost no spells to work with.
7) I know this is all about surviving the first few levels - so can a race with -2 con make it?
I thinking Samsarans. +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, and –2 Constitution.
And the awesome power:
Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class's key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on)
If you have int 18 that's worth 5 spell blending! And you get to pick from the bard list as well!
But can is this just satrting with a deathwish?
Okay had a look at staff magus.
Seems underpowered to me. What am i missing?
Is there a cheap CL 20 staff?
If not - you lose medium armor (+2 Ac) and heavy armor +3 - and you can't mix it with Kensei.
Så instead of +5 Ac you get a shield AC - but you can already cast shield. If you get a +5 staff you have +4 from a chain shirt +3 from lvl 13 power you have +12 Ac compared to the +9 from a fullplate (and you still have the option of casting shield = +13 AC).
Now if there is no cheap CL 2 staff you could do the same by putting you arcane pool as +1 bonuses. But now you just do less dam, and the staffs have a bad crit range.
Okay you could make out of Wyroot - but no I don't see why staff magus would be good idea...
Our Magus is 4th level.
She is the Hexcrafter archetype.
She has a 15 ac (studded leather and Dex) if she casts shield it is 19 ac, which by the way is the highest AC in the party when she does it.
The Oracle Ninja and the Ronin both have 18 dex and wear chain shirts, giving them 18 AC full time.
The Barbarian/inquisitor has a 16 AC, so technically, the Hexcrafter has the "worse" AC or the best depending on the circumstances. With 5k of party loot, a wand of shield wouldnt be hard to get...
I don't see her AC as being a weakness of the class.
she has 29 hp. the Barb/inquisitor has 32. The Ronin 31. I'm not seeing the big disadvantage for hit points either.
the Barb/inquisitor is +5 to hit when TWF with his sawtooth sabres, The Ronin is +7 at her best.
The Hexcrafter is +4 in spell combat or +6 with out it, so only +1 behind the Ronin (or the barb if he didnt TWF) also, not seeing the big disadvantage.
Not to mention she can deliver touch spells that by pass armor. She has taken down more gray maidens than anyone (because the were marching around with 21 or more AC) but shocking grasp/ other touch spells put a stop to that.
Her one hex so far is evil eye, what specifically is the draw back here? What is it she cannot do that she's designed to do?
Does she full attack spell combat every round? No, because she doesn't have the action economy to do so. How often does a fighter get to full attack every round?
So she have enought spells to cast shield AND deliver touch spell at lvl 4? She'll have something like 6 spells pr day + cantrips.
I guess she don't see the need for shield often? Or do you guys just have short adventure days?
But it is good to hear that some magus seems to survive low levels. She used a whip? I guess if the barbarian and Ronin want's to be in the front shield isn't that important.
Now tell me about this " a summoned mount combined with whip would be an incredible combination."
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1) OP (that me) specifics HEXcrafter - so no Kensei as stated, because i feel hexcrafter needs to be dexbased - with a feat tax that I fell is to high.
If I ever have a senario starting at midt-level i might consider doing a kensei-student of war - but haven't done the math - and I think the 2 lvl dip will most likely cost to most.
2) Rebuild and don’t dip - besides crossblooded sorc you mean?
Cross blooded sorc just gives to much to miss.
I'm think lvl 8 (after magus get's the medium armor prof) - to make empowered shocking grasp (wayang spell hunter + magical linage - it's not a trait bonus - so they stack)- do some real damage...3) I have considered sylph - but the seems okay for a dexbased magus - don't offer much to a str based that the flight hex doesn't already gives you - abit later though.
4) Staff magus - i'll have to have a look at him...
5) spellstrike vs spellcombat vs 2hw - Yes 2hw works with spellcombat only - i know :-)
6)Spells with charges - well we are talking LOW level - and I don't see how the magus should have enough spells or to hit to make spellcombat worth it at low level - later - yes. But at low level a frostbite that a) does a little extra dam for the rest of the fight and b) debuffs the enemy seems like a good idea - essensially since you have almost no spells to work with.
7) I know this is all about surviving the first few levels - so can a race with -2 con make it?
I thinking Samsarans. +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, and –2 Constitution.
And the awesome power:
Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class's key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on)If you have int 18 that's worth 5 spell blending! And you get to pick from the bard list as well!
But can is this just satrting with a deathwish?
Well first lets clear up a few misconceptions you are suffering under:
A. Dex Based hexcrafters are actually pretty sub-optimal. Primarily you would prefer to be an Int based hexcrafter first with strength being a decent secondary choice. Dex based is ok but by the time you hit the level that you want to play (4th - 9th) you'll find it woefully under performing.
Dex based magi are great but the Hexcrafter really benefits more from the other 2 options.
B. Spells with Charges/Spells per day, are actually the main strength of the hexcrafter and charges are your bread and butter spells. Past second level (and definitely at 4th) a strength/int based hexcrafter should have more attacks per round then any other magus with a better chance to hit as well. This translates into more damage delivered each round so less spells used per combat leaving more spells available after every fight.
C. The classes function is NOT to walk into melee and cast spells, it's job is to deliver effects/damage to the target in multiple different ways. You are making the same mistake most players do at first, you are looking at a Magus as a fighter who casts spells instead of a Caster who can fight.
Just understand that part, A magus is just a delivery system for a spell nothing else. the mistake most dex based players try to do is devote too many resources into trying to do melee damage and this costs them their spell casting ability which is the only thing that matters.
The samsaran ability is extremely nice and can definitely be worth it, provided you don't mind avoiding melee combat for a few levels or have a feat to burn on toughness.
@insaneogeddon, First you can't get any Hexes before 4th level so that doesn't work, and charge spells only lower your DPR if you are limited to only taking 1 attack per round normally, which the Hexcrafter strength builds can EASILY get past (4th level hexcrafters should be doing 4+ attacks a round). That's why charge spells are your best friend as a strength based magus.
Basic math breakdown for you, a 4th level magus can spend 2 rounds casting shocking grasp twice for 8D6 + weapon damage (usually about 3D6 more) or you can cast Alter Self for (3D6+ strx3) first round then Frostbite for (6D6 +3xstr +3xlvl) the second round. If given a single round to prep the numbers skew even further in favor of the charged spells and requires fewer resources to maximize. At higher levels it gets even worse. (20D6+10 crits vs 18D6+90 regular attacks at 10th level, which would you take?)
Survivability is only an issue if you try to play like a fighter, which you aren't. Play it like what you are (A spell delivery system) and you shouldn't have any problems past 3rd level.
i am guessing he's using natural attacks with a non-spellcombat full-attack (holding the charge),
but yeah, it would normally be helpful to mention something like that since it's not an automatic part of hexcrafter.
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Alter Self for (3D6+ strx3)How do you get the 3d6 and str x 3?
Alter self can give you a +2 to strength and one attack with spell combat.(4th level hexcrafters should be doing 4+ attacks a round)Again, I am curious to know how you get 4+ attacks.
Easy, you use it to turn yourself into something with 3 natural attacks (I'm fond of Trogolodytes and Lizardmen). 3 natural attacks at full bab +Arcane Accuracy gives you the attacks (if you decide to spellcombat as well it's 4 natural attacks).
If you take the Prehensile Hair hex you get 5 natural attacks. At higher levels you can easily get 10+ attacks around at full Bab and a LOT of extra damage per hit (using the exact same stats you'd use on a dex based magus for str based can easily do +15 to +18 damage per hit and you get a LOT of hits)
you can't spell combat with natural weapons.
spell combat only does the spell and the iterative attacks from one held 1h melee weapon. (regardless how many other weapons/natwpns you have)
you can hold the charge from previous rounds' spells and deliver those with some attack in combo with all nat weapons.
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you can't spell combat with natural weapons.
spell combat only does the spell and the iterative attacks from one held 1h melee weapon.
you can hold the charge from previous rounds' spells and deliver those with some attack in combo with all nat weapons.
Incorrect, the rules for spell combat state:
To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand.
and the rules for Weapon Finesse and multiple other FAQ entries all state:
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
Natural weapons are perfectly legal to for spell combat and spell strike.
edit: Also spell combat only allows you to cast a spell and attack in the same round, the rules for touch spells are unchanged. Spell strike allows you to deliver a spell or a charge from a spell through any legal weapon, it does not require you to deliver ALL of the charges through that weapon though.