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If a spell caster starts to cast a spell, and a battle oracle uses Surprising Charge as an immediate action, does the surprising charge get resolved before the spell caster even begins casting?
The timing is important because I want to know:
a) If the oracle gets in range to threaten the spell caster, does the oracle get to make an attack of opportunity?
b) After the Oracles Surprising Charge is resolved, does the spell caster now get to redo his action? For example, casting defensively, or just all together changing to a different action like using a supernatural ability (channel to harm).
I would lean towards the spell caster not being able to change his action because immediate actions interrupt, and get resolved before the triggering action, so the battle oracle could go up and smack him with an AOO and the spell caster couldn't do anything about it.
Thoughts?
Surprising Charge (Ex): Once per day, you can move up to your speed as an immediate action. You can use this ability one additional time per day at 7th level and 15th level.
If a spell caster starts to cast a spell, and a battle oracle uses Surprising Charge as an immediate action, does the surprising charge get resolved before the spell caster even begins casting?
I think you can take an immediate action out of turn, even in the middle of someone else's turn, but not in the middle of their action. It's not like Readying an action to interrupt him, so I think you would move either before or after he casts.
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Ah, so then he could change his mind once he sees the oracle come up to him.
I wonder if on the oracle's turn he could "ready a swift action" in this case the surprising charge. The rules don't actually support readying an "immediate action", but they do support readying a swift action. However it does not equate Swift and immediate actions, it only says they are similar. So it's probably a no -go on strict reading of RAW.
Immediate Actions
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.
I had a player do the same thing to me today; he suprising charged out of the cone of effect a Dragons' Breath as he fired it. Didn't know what to say at the time and didn't wanna argue it so I allowed it... Good to know he can't in the future.
as stated above you can use an immiediate action at any time.
A lot of things that allow immediate actions are tailored to do them during your opponent's actions.
for example the Hero's Defiance spell. It is an immediate action that lets you use lay on hands on yourself the moment before you reach 0 hp.
Would be pretty useless if you could not use it during the opponent's full attack.
"you can use it now, he is still attacking you. Oh, now you're dead, too bad"
Swift actions can be used during your actions, so I see no reason to think Immediate actions couldn't be taken during other's actions.
The trick is that starting to cast a spell provokes. So you'd have to choose to use Surprising Charge just before they cast, in which case they can cast defensively, or during it, in which case they wouldn't provoke. It's a good ability, but not for this particular situation.
You have an 1/day (maybe twice day) ability - I would say the caster starts to cast his spell - he has to choose to cast it defensively now (there might be an inv guy next to him) - let's say he doesn't. Then surprise charge gets activated. The Oracle moves up to the caster. The caster unprepared for the battleoracle suddenly standing in front of him provokes AoO.
No I don't se a problem with that.
Use an immidiate action to move out of the way when the dragon starts to take in air (the oracle saw the breath weapon commin a second before it happend) - an move out of the way...
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Many, if not most, Immediate Actions would be pointless if you couldn't interrupt other actions going on. Feather fall which you can only cast after your mate has hit the ground, or the boulder dropped by the trap has already landed on you? Yeah... not so good...
Dodging area attacks would seem to be one of the main uses of Surprising Charge in the first place.
Interrupting a spellcaster with it is a little more tricky - the Surprise Charge itself can certainly interupt the caster mid-spell, but whether the Oracle gains an AoO if he wasn't present when the triggering action occured is a lot less certain.
He'd get an AoO if he went before the spellcaster, but you can usually change actions you've not started based on stuff going on around you (e.g. you don't have to announce the targets of all your attacks right at the start of a round, you pick them as you launch the actual attacks) so the spellcaster could change his mind. On the other hand, until the spellcaster starts to cast, the Oracle is just guessing that such is the spellcaster's next action...
So the question really comes down to whether a caster provokes for casting a bit of a spell (i.e. he's already started, by not finished, the casting action). The answer is on page 187 of the core rule book...
'... You only provoke attacks of opportunity when you begin casting a spell...'
... that's refering to spells with a full round or more casting time, but I can't see why it wouldn't apply in every case - this one included.
So - movement with Surprise Charge = yes; free AoO with same = no.
IMHO, natch... ;)
Swift actions can be used during your actions, so I see no reason to think Immediate actions couldn't be taken during other's actions.
The trick is that starting to cast a spell provokes. So you'd have to choose to use Surprising Charge just before they cast, in which case they can cast defensively, or during it, in which case they wouldn't provoke. It's a good ability, but not for this particular situation.
What about if the Battle Oracle, as an immediate action, moves close to the line of movement of an enemy, during his turn.
Does the intercepted movement provokes AOO? Even if the enemy has no chance to change his line of movement?
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Surprising Charge (Ex): Once per day, you can move up to your speed as an immediate action. You can use this ability one additional time per day at 7th level and 15th level.
Immediate actions are a mixed bunch, some can interrupt other people action (but generally say so or it is evident as the ability wouldn't work if that wasn't true), others don't.
Surprising charge don't say it can interrupt another person action, so I don't think you can use it to get near a caster and negate him the opportunity to cast defensively.
As I see it, this is the sequence:
- the GM/caster declares he will cast a spell;
- the Oracle use Surprise charge and get near him;
- now the spellcaster starts his spell, and decide its parameters, including casting defensively, targets, area, etc.
Same thing for Pinillo85 question. The enemy starts to move, the Battle Oracle intercept him at point X of his movement. At that point, the enemy cans stop his movement, use tumbling or do whatever he wants. He isn't locked into completing his movement.
Some special movements, like charge, don't allow to change the action when started, so there are situations where the Oracle get a "free" AoO, but that require GM adjudication. If the Oracle get in the path of a charging enemy, the enemy is forced to stop his move and abort the charge, it is not forced to move in the Oracle square and receive an AoO.
N.B.: you can use an immediate action during your turn, so it is possible to ready a surprise charge, but then, as readying an action use up a standard action, reading a regular move is as efficient as reading a Surprise charge. And a readied action can interrupt another action.
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn.