We all know Risk, right? "Harry was the one who set up the Risk game so he took the liberty of adding three extra lines to the map connecting Australia to several other places because Australia is so overpowered and Harry hates Australia but then didn't mention this until the game had already started and everyone had already placed their starting units" works for me.
Actually I think taking the aces out of the deck was a very apt analogy :)
Get everyone to take the Swap Places teamwork feat. Use liberally, and enjoy.
Alternatively, consider Master Summner. Just hide behind a wall of dudes.
dotting.
I think making the feat available isn't that big of a problem.
1. As others have pointed out, max your defensive casting abilities. You should be fine then.
2. Step up means they cannot 5-foot step next round. So maybe don't cast in the a situation like that, but use a supernatural ability, draw a weapon, set up a flanking position, attack with a wepaon... So you still do something useful and worthwhile, but eat up your opponent's 5-foot action.
3. Step up is a prerequisite for following step. Since you get the actual step up feat you might want to consider taking that. Use it to follow up on archers or such, set up flanking - they used their 5-foot step, you still have yours then, though :-)
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An update. I have received the DM's file of house rules. He has decided to NOT use the Step Up rule. There are a few other things that are slightly odd, but not terrible (in my opinion). Spoilered below if anyone is interested.
- All casters gain Heighten Spell
- Added a Feat he calls Improved Metamagic which reduces the level increase required for metamagic'ed spells
- Modified Haste to require touching the targets.
- Modified Comprehend Languages to be a level 4 Spell, because "I dislike the ability to mess up DM plots so easily".
- You can purchase any Weapon proficiency by spending 4 skill ranks
- When an enemy is truly unaware of you, you can essentially coup de grace them.
- And he altered a number of armors to triple their prices (Chainmail, Breastplate, Splint Mail, Banded) but altered their max dex, armor check, and armor bonuses slightly.
- He has banned Druids, Summoners and Gunslingers (Gunslingers I can understand as a setting thing. The other two I find a little irksome. I don't know if he really has any first hand knowledge of them in a game, and he is even playing a Summoner in our Pathfinder Society games. It feels more like he heard they're overpowered and so has banned them, not trusting us to not abuse them - If indeed we concede they are overpowered at all.)
The issue is indeed the fact that my fun is affected. It's fine to say "suck it up and adapt" but as some have pointed out, it was dictating my build, and if I didn't optimize for Defensive casting (expending Traits, Feats, Spells known and spells per day), i.e. building a character the way I WANTED, I ran the risk of finding myself in situations where I would not be able to do what the class is DESIGNED TO DO. I can indeed have a melee weapon out, and aid another, and all the rest, but if I am not able to cast spells, what am I? A commoner with a lot of knowledge skills. The same goes for a ranged character. Yes, of course one must always be prepared and have a melee weapon at hand when shooting is impractical. But if I am going to be forced to stand and fight in melee when my feats and gear are tailored to shooting a bow, what am I? A Warrior.
I think you all also need to realize that we (the currebt players) are not hardcore optimizers or tactical whizzes.
Beyond that, I am occasionally at odds with this person. He is an optimizer, and dare I say a powergamer. He is a very good game player in general. Very smart, with a good head for strategy and tactics. He also seems to need to tinker with the game worlds and the rules systems in place. (We will be playing Jade Regent and has advised us he will be modifying the Caravan rules.)
In the end, I chose to make an Archery Cleric. We also have a Fighter, Samurai and Wizard.
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These really don't look so bad, in all honesty.
I assume that the armors are being changed to add more variaty to them, (something that was asked of Paizo before the Pathfinder Core book came out to make Medium armor, . . . useful).
Trip and Disarm adding Str and a half for two handers, seems like a great way to help boost Combat Manuvers which are kind of in need of it anyway.
Haste really is a "too good" spell. Honestly, while I can see people not liking that, is very reasonable. (Keep in mind you can only touch 6 targets, but all that is really changing hre is that the party needs to stay close at the start, and that summoned allies and an army are not likely to be buffed).
Weapon Prof = 4 Ranks. Again, something I have heard asked for a lot, though I might look more at Simple =1, Martial = 2, and Exotic =3 (or 2). 4 Seems kind of steep, but oh well. It kind of screws the classes that would really utilize this the most while nearly handing it out like candy to Rogues, Bards, and Wizards.
A lot of people ban Gunslingers on principle, and it's generally accepted that the Summoner (archtype or no) is extremely unbalanced, even using the rules correctly, and well known for ruining other player's fun (getting essentually two full characters and then causing battle to drag as they Summon Monsters). Druids also cause a lot of grief, either through Wild Shape or Entangle from early levels.
To be honest, at a glance, I can't fault any of these rules. I understand though that you are not finding the GM's style fun, and I'm not sure any rule is going to change that.
If they decide to add back in the Step Up rule you can always use the Withdraw action for emergencies.
I am curious as to how they changed the Armours.
also isn't there already a Feat that reduces the Metamagic level adjustment?
Comprehend Languages is to weak to be a Level 4 spell. Level 2 maybe but not level 4.
I wonder - why GM is running a game which ( in his opinion ) has so many bugs ( ten houserules and probably countin' )? There are a lot of mechanics which are better to simulate his style than d20 .
I will say the current Weapon Proficiency system is horrid. Skill Points to Weapon Proficiency is just as bad if not worse.
I am actually working on a Weapon Group Proficiency Feat System for this reason.
Still curious on how the armours were changed.
Running a game is a lot of work. So, your choice is to say, thanks for doing this, I'll suck it up and accept your house rules, or "No thanks, I'll game elsewhere"
After you make that decision, we can help you make a character for that setting, or not.
But the decision is yours.
I must be doing something wrong... I find running a Game easier than playing in a Game...
That being said most of these rules are easy to deal with.
D20 mechanic is like a cardhouse-if you try to change even one tiny aspect of the game ( "Tiny " change like previous free Step Up had impact on every archer classes and every spellcaster builds )there is a risk of unbalancing system. New pack of rules has a few endangers to game math:
1. Nerfed "Haste"- hard live to mid-level company, damage output needed to safety overcoming mid-level encounters can be too small.
2. "When an enemy is truly unaware of you, you can essentially coup de grace them. "- Max Stealth + friendly buffs (Silence, Invisibilty)-> Too obvious to explain
3.Disarm and trip when using 2-handed weapons gain 1.5x Str bonus.
Buffing two most useful CM , "trip-all-style" is coming.
D20 works fine if you use it as it written- dungeon, chain of variety encounters, from AP-3 to AP +2/3.Otherwise (sandbox 1-2 encouters per 24h, urban detective adventures, housemade personalized adventures) there is a chance that you can feel need of change .Probably these "tiny aspects" will fit better to your adventures.But if you take a original ,series-of-encounter module, some things, like nerfed "haste", can impact negatively on game.
So, to conclusion- some things ,which are often houseruled, are INTENDED.If someone makes more than 3-4 changes, there is a chance that rules don't provide type of game which he want go run.
@Herbatnik: The problem is most monsters can't be disarmed and after a while CMD out paces CMB.
The Stealth Coup De Grace makes attacks in Assassin's Creed or Dishonored style Possible.
Haste... I have to agree with you. Though at the start of combat it can easily be thrown up in either case. Original and this Houseruled
The Stealth Coup De Grace would probably have to be highly focused.
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I'm willing to live with the rest of his house rules. The armor one is irritating, and the class bannings are disappointing. Everything else is tolerable.
I am in agreement with Herbatnik. I think Pathfinder works fine as it is. (That being said, and I hope it's not hypocritical of me, I have one house rule - Intimidate may be based off Str OR Cha) I am slightly wary of the Synthesist, because I know there are a lot of arguments over it, but nothing that can't be fixed with a careful ruling from a DM. I wish he wasn't so keen to tinker.
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I am slightly wary of the Synthesist, because I know there are a lot of arguments over it, but nothing that can't be fixed with a careful ruling from a DM. I wish he wasn't so keen to tinker.
Synth summoners are actually a LOT easier to deal with then normal summoners...assuming good system mastery. The summoner has a 3/4 caster AND a fighter in one go. The synth can be a fighter OR a 3/4 caster. Synth summoners are a trap.
Synthesists are one of those ones that I limit to the Experienced members of my groups.
Don't suppose you could throw up the new armor descriptions in Google Drive and share or something?
EDIT: And I have to admit I will probably steal the Stealth Coup De Grace for my games.
To the OP.
relax a bit. play out a bit and see how it goes YES your going to have to play a little differently but that does not make the game worse that just makes it a little different.
I took over a game mid adventure once while the GM took a few months break. The archer in the game did the normal 5 foot step and full attack action all the time. he would always move close to the melee action to ensure he got pointblank shot bonus and he felt very powerfull because he had so heavily focued into his bow that he brought down most bosses in a very short time.
I didnt change any rules but as a different GM I did things a little differently. My baddies (if they were reasonably intelligent) made use of disarm to counter the archer if they got close enough.
The archer, of course, pitched a fit.
over the course of the next few sessions though the player actually grew closer to his character because he had to pay more attention, use more tactics and become less of a one trick pony.
The point is I dont think your GM is trying to screw you. he simply has a different vision. He is not trying to limit your fun he is doing his best to create a more diverse and entertaining game.
If you just cant deal with it and feel that the game MUST be played the way you think it should be played and no other way then you may have problems playing in any game because almost every GM has their own quirks and house rules even you.
If you can give it a few sessions and see how things go, however, I would encourage you to do so and you MAY pick up ideas that you implement into your own game.
The one thing I would NOT recommend is complaining about it here expecting us to validate your complaints and some how convince your GM that he is doing it wrong.
@blue_the_wolf: As has been said Capricornus is bothered mostly by the Armour changes.
And that is what I am curious about.
yea. a few things changed while I was typing.
but i think the bottom line is that the OP is bothered by the game being different than he wants it to be. earlier in the thread his main complaint was step up, the GM took that out and now his main complaint is the armor rules, if the GM took that out I am pretty sure something else would become his major complaint.
dont get me wrong my tone sounds bad but I am not mad at the OP. I am just trying to encourage him to give it a chance.
On a side note I would like to see the armor changes.. I you have asked so much I am curious now.
I want to know what changes would make a Breastplate worth 600gp.
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Breastplate 600gp, Armor +6, Max Dex 3, Check -4
Splint Mail 200gp, Armor +7, Max Dex 1, Check -3
Banded Mail 600gp, Armor +7, Max Dex 2, Check -5
Half Plate 700gp, Armor +8, Max Dex 1, Check -6
Field Plate 1200gp, Armor +8, Max Dex 2, Check -5
Full Plate 1500gp, Armor +9, Max Dex 1, Check -7
Mountain Plate, 1800gp, Armor +10, Max Dex 0, Check -8
You're right, I may like it. I may adapt. I may also be irritated like I was last time I played with him DMing. My annoyance level has actually gone down a whole lot with the departure of the Step Up rule. My continuance of the discussion is with a lot less urgency now.
wow... he killed armor. i wonder why.
non of it would PERSONALLY hurt me because I tend to use light armors and the occasional mithral breastplate but i wonder why he made the changes he made.
on a side note... does he modify the AC of creatures... like do the 5 NPC guards wearing breastplates get their ACs changed?
I hope the skill ranks for weapon prof is in addition to the feat (an alternative) not instead of it.
casters are unbalanced so he gives them free heightened and a way to reduce meta magic costs. Your Gm is confused. and lets screw with melee chars by hurting armor. The rules as a hole none of them are truly offensive but they don't seem to have any consistency or logical goal.
Sounds like the GM is changing the rules to fit with his personal vision of how things should be.
Can't argue with that. I have a different vision myself, but whatever.
I like how Comprehend Languages is now a higher-level spell than Tongues.
I like how Comprehend Languages is now a higher-level spell than Tongues.I like how the GM in question has come up with plot-lines I cannot - i.e. those that would be spoiled by a comprehend languages spell.
I like how it's fine for a single spell to spoil said plotlines as long as that spell uses up a higher-level slot.
And how a single rank in Linguistics could presumably spoil those plotlines just as easily.
nah, what the DM is doing is having critters talk is some stupid language that he metagamingly knows none of the PCs can speak.
So we all the goblins talk in aklo, because the dwarf can speak goblin, he can say "they speak in a strange language" without having to tell the PCs what is being said, because he hasn't even made up what they are saying yet.
I'm curious, what books are available in this campaign?
He really killed armour and boosted casters...
Why do I have a feeling he has a Player who is pulling his strings.
And you can tell he has never fought in armour.
He would have killed my typical Fighter...
wow... he killed armor. i wonder why.
non of it would PERSONALLY hurt me because I tend to use light armors and the occasional mithral breastplate but i wonder why he made the changes he made.
on a side note... does he modify the AC of creatures... like do the 5 NPC guards wearing breastplates get their ACs changed?
Kinda made me chuckle how you went from "he should give the houserules a chance" to "by the gods! he killed armor!" ;)
Kinda made me chuckle how you went from "he should give the houserules a chance" to "by the gods! he killed armor!" ;)wow... he killed armor. i wonder why.
non of it would PERSONALLY hurt me because I tend to use light armors and the occasional mithral breastplate but i wonder why he made the changes he made.
on a side note... does he modify the AC of creatures... like do the 5 NPC guards wearing breastplates get their ACs changed?
Have you seen the changes to armour!? He ruined most armours!?
Have you seen the changes to armour!? He ruined most armours!?Kinda made me chuckle how you went from "he should give the houserules a chance" to "by the gods! he killed armor!" ;)wow... he killed armor. i wonder why.
non of it would PERSONALLY hurt me because I tend to use light armors and the occasional mithral breastplate but i wonder why he made the changes he made.
on a side note... does he modify the AC of creatures... like do the 5 NPC guards wearing breastplates get their ACs changed?
Good thing I use armor, sans 'u' :)
But yeah, I see what he did and eh, I don't like it. I'd express my disinterest and why I don't like it. All else fails, I politely excuse myself from the game. But that's why as a GM, before I make any houserules, I ask my players first. And if the house rules get in the way, I remove them. Because unlike was Pax says, for me, the players come first. Without players, there is no campaign.
Pax? And I agree with you.
Hey! You mocking my spelling? I might be from a small american town but I have dealt with to many Scots.
With armors like those, you're not playing anything even remotely resembling Pathfinder anymore. May as well rip up the CRB and build an entirely new game from scratch. This is pretty much the Call of Cthulhu mechanics poorly disguised as Pathfinder.
Pax? And I agree with you.
Hey! You mocking my spelling? I might be from a small american town but I have dealt with to many Scots.
No such thing as too many Scots, especially Scottish ladies ;)
My heart has been taken by too many fire-haired lasses it seems.
Pax? And I agree with you.
Hey! You mocking my spelling? I might be from a small american town but I have dealt with to many Scots.
No such thing as too many Scots, especially Scottish ladies ;)
My heart has been taken by too many fire-haired lasses it seems.
No Comment... Especially since I am Scotch-Irish.
Lighten up! I like Irish women too... but I fear I may be getting off topic :D