Do cesti, spiked gauntlets, gauntlets, and brass knuckles benefit from the Brawling enchant?
Also can you TWF using one of the above with Dervish Dance?
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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
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No, to both.
The only thing that counts as Unarmed Strikes, are Unarmed Strikes.
The Cestus, Gauntlet, Spiked Gauntlet, Brass Knuckles, and Emei Piercer are all light manufactured weapons.
They are not unarmed strikes.
blackbloodtroll wrote: No, to both.
The only thing that counts as Unarmed Strikes, are Unarmed Strikes.
The Cestus, Gauntlet, Spiked Gauntlet, Brass Knuckles, and Emei Piercer are all light manufactured weapons.
They are not unarmed strikes.
Are you sure?
Gauntlet in the CRB says
Benefit: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of gauntlets.
Note: The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.
Weapon Feature(s): cannot be disarmed
Cestus is as follows
Also explain why you cannot use those weapons to TWF with Dervish Dance?
The cestus is a glove of leather or thick cloth that covers the wielder from mid-finger to mid-forearm. The close combat weapon is reinforced with metal plates over the fingers and often lined with wicked spikes along the backs of the hands and wrists.
Benefit: While wearing a cestus, you are considered armed and your unarmed attacks deal normal damage. If you are proficient with a cestus, your unarmed strikes may deal bludgeoning or piercing damage. Monks are proficient with the cestus.
Drawback: When using a cestus, your fingers are mostly exposed, allowing you to wield or carry items in that hand, but the constriction of the weapon at your knuckles gives you a –2 penalty on all precision-based tasks involving that hand (such as opening locks).
Weapon Feature(s): monk
Yep, bbt is correct on this one. It's been clarified quite a few times by the devs, and once I get on a better computer, I can send the links if you want.
blackbloodtroll wrote: No, to both.
The only thing that counts as Unarmed Strikes, are Unarmed Strikes.
The Cestus, Gauntlet, Spiked Gauntlet, Brass Knuckles, and Emei Piercer are all light manufactured weapons.
They are not unarmed strikes.
The gauntlet does say it counts as an unarmed attack in the description.
SKR has clarified that all those weapons are manufactured light weapons, and not unarmed strikes.
Cheapy wrote: Yep, bbt is correct on this one. It's been clarified quite a few times by the devs, and once I get on a better computer, I can send the links if you want. Yes would like to see it. I thought they made it so you can't get monk's unarmed damage to brass knuckles, gauntlets and cesti. However, I don't remember seeing any post of them changing the actual rules and description of the aforementioned weapons as non-unarmed strikes.
I just read some of the back and forth on monk damage, cestus, brass knuckles, gauntlets and emei piercer post.
I think SKR hasn't crunched the number because he kept saying how the monk should be or is the king of unarmed fighting.
I mean not to disparage the devs, but they seem to be focused on the weapon die damage and the number of flurry attacks, rather than the to hit for the monk. However, I think that is rather myopic of them.
I guess that is the disconnect between the devs and monk players who wants the monk buffed.
The devs think that the monk is already the top dog when it comes to unarmed fighting. But that is a direct contradiction with my DPR model for a monk attacking CR appropriate AC.
Also he only ruled that in the context of gaining monk damage die these weapons should be considered weapons. Not sure how they would interact with Brawling, since monks can't even use brawling.
One last thing, why can't you TWF with Dervish Dance with the cesti, gauntlets, spiked gauntlets and brass knuckles. I can see maybe brass knuckles because they are held but the rest are just worn. Or are people saying that wearing armor with gauntlets will stop you from using dervish dance.
Ciaran Barnes wrote: What is SKR? Sean K Reynolds.
Sean K. Reynolds, Developer. Developers are those who help create and define the rules.
Gignere wrote: Not sure how they would interact with Brawling, since monks can't even use brawling. They can. More restricted access, but doable. Bracers of Armor +1 with Brawling. Costs about 4000 gp.
sadly bracers of armor do not count as 'light armor'...and the brawling property can only be applied to 'light armor'
Monks can use Brawling Armor. They just lose a bunch class features doing so.
Duskblade is right as well. Bracers of Armor can not have the Brawling enchantment.
Do gauntlets not count as unarmed strikes for people who don't come to the forums?
Because no matter what SKR has said on an online forum, nothing in any official product (to my knowledge anyway) has changed that wording.
Neo2151 wrote: Do gauntlets not count as unarmed strikes for people who don't come to the forums?
Because no matter what SKR has said on an online forum, nothing in any official product (to my knowledge anyway) has changed that wording.
It's not like SKR is a developer for the company or anything.
True.
They said they would change the wording for gauntlets, but did not do so for Ultimate Equipment.
All other "unarmed" weapons have been updated though.
Even weirder, was there was a comment on gauntlets after Ultimate Equipment.
So, you may get away with it using the Gauntlet, but expect table variation.
ciretose wrote: Neo2151 wrote: Do gauntlets not count as unarmed strikes for people who don't come to the forums?
Because no matter what SKR has said on an online forum, nothing in any official product (to my knowledge anyway) has changed that wording.
It's not like SKR is a developer for the company or anything. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it...
;)
What is this Brawling Armor that you speak of I can't find it anywhere even after using the d20pfsrd custom google search for it. I am trying to make an unarmed fighter because my character concept does not allow for him being the wisest person in the world) and I would like to know what bonuses it gives.
It is in Ultimate Equipment.
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