"Prismatic Sphere" invincibility?


Rules Questions


Hi all!

I have a problem with the spell "Prismatic Sphere":

The Spell says:
(...)the sphere blocks any attempt to project something through the sphere (including spells).

Example:

An Evil Wizards cast Prismatc Spehere around him so I know that:

1. I could walk through the Sphere but I would suffer the effects of the Sphere (all colors)

2. I can't shoot the Evil Wizard with my bow

3. Rays (Scorching Ray), Lines (Lightin Bolt), Cones (Burning Hands), Emanations or Explosion if the center of the Spell is OUTSIDE the Sphere and any Spell starting from the Caster (Fireball and Magic Missile) are useless because the Sphere would block them.

But can I cast Spell directly INTO the Sphere?

Can I use "Summon Monsters III" and summon a Crocodile INTO the Sphere near the Evil Wizard?

Can I use "Word of Power (Kill)" and trying to kill the Evil Wizard?

...and many many other similar Spells that actually don't PASS THROUGH the Sphere?

----------------------

Now, getting harder.

"Prismatic Sphere" is NOT a Force Effect so it doesen't extend into the Ethereal Plane, so can I use "Ethereal Jaunt" and walk through the Spehere in the Ethereal Plane?

Or, can I Teleport myself (or an ally) INTO the Sphere near the Evil Wizards?

The description of Conjuration (Teleportation) school says:

"Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation."

So I actually wouldn't PASS THROUGH Sphere... and "Prismatic Sphere" doesent's Extend into the Astral Plane.

----------------------

My Players say that literally :
"the sphere blocks any attempt to project something through the sphere (including spells) so NO SPELL could do that... but i'm not of the same idea.

Thank you!

Luca
Italian Pathfinder

Silver Crusade

Well remember that the sphere blocks line of sight, so you can't even see inside the sphere to target anyone inside or a space inside.


Keep in mind that it's a 9th level spell and the "invincible" wizard inside the sphere is effectively trapped also if he wants to keep his "invincibility."


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Note that unlike in earlier version of the game, Prismatic Sphere in PF is actually a sphere area of effect:

Quote:
A sphere-shaped spell expands from its point of origin to fill a spherical area. Spheres may be bursts, emanations, or spreads.

By this, the sphere is going a to scupper any teleportation or magical travel into it.

Scarab Sages

1. Prismatic Sphere is abjuration. All abjuration spells are effective vs. ethereal.

2. Disjunction > Prismatic Sphere

3. The wizard is limiting his effectiveness by hiding inside the prismatic sphere. He could be open with time stop + mind bland + greater invisibilty + fly.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Pretty much the entire point of prismatic sphere is that it's the ultimate defensive spell. It should stop all things, that's what it's for.

As others have pointed out, you have to exit your bubble if you want to influence the battle.


It's a great spell to combine w/ Flyby Attack, though enemies in that instance can still ready attacks to hit you.

And it is a purely defensive 9th level spell. In a game that heavily rewards offense. Nothing wrong with it.


ryric wrote:

Pretty much the entire point of prismatic sphere is that it's the ultimate defensive spell. It should stop all things, that's what it's for.

Except a very angry barbarian with spell sunder.

Silver Crusade

If you read the color effects under prismatic wall, it become obvious that the last color stops everything. No spells, attacks, psionics, etc. gets to the evil wizard inside until all colors are destroyed.

Truely evil way this spell can be used: evil wizard casts prismatic sphere to keep good guys off him. On his turn, steps through sphere, casts timestop. Spends timestop rounds summoning creatures and laying delayed blast fireballs and longer term area spells. On last timestop round, uses move action to return to sphere. Comedy ensures.

Silver Crusade

Lab_Rat wrote:
ryric wrote:

Pretty much the entire point of prismatic sphere is that it's the ultimate defensive spell. It should stop all things, that's what it's for.

Except a very angry barbarian with spell sunder.

Very interesting. Should be an auto sunder at that level (DC 24). Unless the GM rules that sunder is an effect, and blocked by the last color. Which would be a stretch.


Thanks to all for the replies! :)

@Elamdri: yes, if you read the Spell description it seems to block line of sight "vertical, opaque wall—a shimmering, multicolored plane of light"

@StreamOfTheSky: BUT too much powerful!

@sowhereaminow: yes, the Indigo BLOCKS ALL SPELLS!

I give up :)
Bye!

Luca

Dark Archive

Mindflyer wrote:

Thanks to all for the replies! :)

@Elamdri: yes, if you read the Spell description it seems to block line of sight "vertical, opaque wall—a shimmering, multicolored plane of light"

@StreamOfTheSky: BUT too much powerful!

@sowhereaminow: yes, the Indigo BLOCKS ALL SPELLS!

I give up :)
Bye!

Luca

Doesn't dimension door not care about line of sight?


also wall of suppression


Sarcastro wrote:
Doesn't dimension door not care about line of sight?

No you are correct Dimension Door may be used just by stating a distance so one does not necessarily need to see where one is going. The Sphere's 6th and 7th layers, however, would block the teleportation so you would end up shunted off outside the sphere taking some damage as a result. And that assumes some free space to teleport into exists outside the sphere (and nothing says the 'free' space is necessarily harmless or the shunting direction is under your control). Least that is how I see it.

As to the OP's seeming problem it's the reason my Loremaster always had a scroll with a particular set of 7 spells inscribed on it, a Rod of Cancellation and/or Disjunction memorized (or all 3).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There is never any free space "inside" (within) the sphere. It is not just a (hemi)spherical shell (it was once upon a time, but now it is a sphere). By the definition of the sphere area of effect, the 7 prismatic effects fill the area, with the caster being immune to them (it will still block line of sight for the caster, though).

Whilst primarily a defensive spell, certainly, the prismatic sphere is also the ultimate "don't get in melee range of the arcane caster" offensive spell, too.


@Chemlak
If your post was in response to me ... no doubt, regardless of whether it fills the area or not I wouldn't allow D Door or Teleportation of any sort to "shunt" anyone to the area within the Sphere. That would clearly be violating the intent of the 6th and 7th layers effects and the spell in general.

As for offensive perhaps ...

Covered Pit contains Sphere, Disintegrate the cover under foes feet and let gravity take over. What do you mean not quite what you meant?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Once fought a lich in a high level game. He cast this spell, teleported out, and ambushed the party with a huge host of buffed summoned monsters as we all wasted time trying to bring down his ward.

We were all like "yay, the ward is dow--wait, where's the lich?"

That's when everything went to sh1t.


Ravingdork wrote:

Once fought a lich in a high level game. He cast this spell, teleported out, and ambushed the party with a huge host of buffed summoned monsters as we all wasted time trying to bring down his ward.

We were all like "yay, the ward is dow--wait, where's the lich?"

That's when everything went to sh1t.

Behind you stepping out of his new Sphere firing his favorite Quickened party smashing spell before stepping back into his Sphere?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

More like we went from having him completely surrounded by a superior force to having us being completely surrounded by a superior force.

Always pump your initiative. :P


i don't see why it would block dimension door. dim door is being cast on yourself(target : you), not the person in the sphere or the area within it, and teleportation effects use the astral plane, going around the plane of existence you are currently in. none of the descriptions of prismatic sphere, prismatic wall, or abjuration spells say they go into other dimensions.

if the sphere acts like the wall, then it is a thin sphere with a safe area within, because the wall does not give a thickness, just a height and width (not cubes) so the inside should be safe.

and still, my earlier comment of wall of suppression would work also to suppress it if your caster level is equal to or greater than the prismatic sphere's caster level.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
asthyril wrote:
if the sphere acts like the wall, then it is a thin sphere with a safe area within, because the wall does not give a thickness, just a height and width (not cubes) so the inside should be safe.

My point is that the only thing a sphere does similarly to the wall is the specific effects of the colours. Unless we are presented with errata, it is a sphere, and "A sphere-shaped spell expands from its point of origin to fill a spherical area." Effect 6 of the prismatic sphere (which "fill[s] a spherical area") blocks ALL spells. In other words, the other end of the door can't open within the sphere.


Teleportation effects do not need line of effect. They do not involve "passing through" a space. It's just point A to B.

Prismatic Sphere does nothing to block teleporting, just as resilient sphere and solid force cage (which both also block line of effect) do not stop it.

It will stop summoning things into it, though. Since you need line of sight/effect for popping critters in.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How can "blocks all spell" mean "blocks all spells except teleportation"? The arguments against a prismatic sphere blocking seem to be as a result of "edition relapse".

Let me try it again, just in case I am not being clear (if I am, please let me know):

A prismatic sphere in PF is not an infinitely thin shell of prismatic effect. It is a "solid" sphere of prismatic effect. The prismatic effects are in existence throughout the area enclosed by the sphere, because the effects fill that area. It is not possible to teleport inside a prismatic sphere from the outside, because each and every square that falls inside the area is constantly filled with all 7 prismatic effects, including Indigo, which blocks all spells. That includes wish.

Dimension door allows you to short-range teleport to any point of your choosing with no chance of error.

If the target point has "blocks all spells" applied to it, so that even a wish can't affect it, what hope does a lowly 4th level spell have?

Prismatic sphere is the bee's knees, the dog's b~@@$*%s, of protective magic. It is explicitly designed to be completely impenetrable. If a 4th level spell were capable of bypassing that protection, I would expect "blocks all magic" to include a caveat about allowing teleportation.


If it is just point A to point B then why

"Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation."

I'm still thinking the 6th and 7th layers still prevent any sort of Teleportation. Further the effect of the 7th layer to Plane Shift seems to me to indicate interaction of the spell with other planes of existance. Plane Shift (unless different in PF vs 3.5) is also a Conjuration (Teleportation) which says to me it's clearly interacting, at minimum, with the Astral.

And then we have Chemlak's post(s) above and fyi 3.5 has the exact same wording for the Area of Effect meaning for a sphere-shaped spell "A sphere-shaped spell expands from its point of origin to fill a spherical area. Spheres may be bursts, emanations, or spreads." The only thing the description really doesn't say is which is it, a burst, emanation or spread. I'd say an emanation that apparently does not require a line of effect since it'll go thru a solid floor.

While I've always had a mental image of a "shell" the wording here is pretty clear ... it fills the area every bit as much as a fireball would (if it had a duration beyond instantaneous anyway). It 'surrounds' you the way water would not the way a bubble would.


Chemlak has a point. It's prismatic sphere, not prismatic ward or prismatic shell.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thank you for the words of support.

I will, for the sake of completeness, point out that in earlier editions (2nd and 1st AD&D), every description of a prismatic sphere that I saw indicated that it was a shell, rather than an effect that fills the area.

That may still have been the intention with 3.x and PF (and the fact that the spell description uses "globe" in the text is certainly an indicator that the "sphere" area of effect may be in error, but globe is undefined).

I came upon this issue with prismatic sphere only a few weeks ago when I was researching details for the "wall of ice" discussion that was happening at the time, and I was checking whether "hemisphere" appears as a defined term in any spell description. It doesn't. I was hugely shocked to discover that prismatic sphere is as detrimental to allies as it is to enemies - I had always considered it to be a "gather close, I can protect us!" sort of spell. But by RAW it isn't. It is actually the quintessential example of "get too close to the arcane spellcaster and you're screwed".


This thread reminds me how much I want to put this item in a high level game. A staff that casts all 7 spells needed to break through a Prismatic Sphere or Prismatic Wall.

Prismatic Staff

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