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New Base Class (First Draft): The Cardmaster (feedback welcome)

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theHunterD13

Oct 25, 2012, 08:26 am

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Hello everyone this is my first attempt to create a new base class for my home setting so please bear with me. The calss is called the Cardmaster and is centered around the idea of roguish spellslinger who funnels his magic through a deck of cards (yes like Gambit from the Marvel universe). Any feedback you have please let me know in the comments, this is only the first draft and I expect alot of errors and changes will need to be made.

Cardmaster

Role: The cardmaster’s reputation often precedes him (often in a negative fashion). His ability to dabble in magic, coupled with his charismatic nature often gets the cardmaster in trouble with the locals of any village. No slouch in a fight the cardmaster endues his weapons, and most often his favorite gambling cards, with magical energy allowing them to deal a fair degree of damage to his opponents. Add to this the cardmaster’s agile nature, among other talents, make the cardmaster a begrudgingly welcome addition to any group of adventurers.

Alignment: Any.
Base Attack Bonus: Full
Good Saves: Reflex, Will
Hit dice: d8

Class Skills
The cardmaster’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int) Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 7 + Int modifier.

Class Features
The following are class features of the cardmaster.

Spells Per Day
Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1 1 - - - - -
2 2 - - - - -
3 3 - - - - -
4 3 1 - - - -
5 4 1 - - - -
6 4 2 - - - -
7 4 2 1 - - -
8 4 3 1 - - -
9 5 3 2 - - -
10 5 4 2 1 - -
11 5 4 2 1 - -
12 5 4 3 2 - -
13 5 4 3 2 1 -
14 5 5 3 3 2 -
15 5 5 4 3 2 -
16 5 5 4 4 3 1
17 5 5 4 4 3 2
18 5 5 5 4 3 3
19 5 5 5 5 4 3
20 5 5 5 5 4 4

The cardmaster’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A cardmaster begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1stlevel spells of the cardmaster’s choice. At each new cardmaster level, he gains one or more new spells. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a cardmaster knows is not affected by his Intelligence score. The numbers on the table are fixed.)
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third cardmaster level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a cardmaster can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the cardmaster “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level cardmaster spell the cardmaster can cast. A cardmaster may swap only a single spell at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
A cardmaster need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Endue Energy (Su): Though the cardmaster is nowhere near as strong with magic as some other classes he is able to apply what magic he can control to a variety of fields many casters cannot; one such area is the ability to endue magical energy into his weapons. Focusing his magic into his weapon it becomes coated in magical energy allowing it deal additional damage. This ability can only be used upon weapons the cardmaster is proficient with. Attacks from weapons endued with energy deal an additional 1d4 points of magic damage on a successful hit. Enemies with magic resistance and immunity to magic are not affected by the additional damage done from this ability.

Cantrips: Cardmasters learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on the accompanying table under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.

Card Throw (Ex): In addition to regular weapons, a cardmaster is adept at pushing the magical energy of his endue energy ability into gambling cards that he can then hurl at his enemies. A cardmaster can use this ability a number of times per day equal to double his level + his Intelligence modifier, or until he runs out of cards to throw, whichever comes first. Once the card is endued with energy it becomes unstable, and if not thrown in the round in which they are created expels the pent up energy in the form of an explosion centered on the cardmaster, or where ever the card is left.
Drawing a card and throwing it requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown cards have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack (see page 202 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook). For the cardmaster thrown cards are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, a cardmaster’s card inflicts 1d4 points of energy and piercing damage + additional damage equal to the cardmaster’s Intelligence modifier. The damage of a cardmaster’s card increases by 1d4 points at every odd-numbered cardmaster level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from a cardmaster’s card is always equal to the cards minimum damage (so if the card would deal 2d4+4 points of energy damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 4 points of energy damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cardmaster’s level + the cardmaster’s Intelligence modifier.

Throw Anything (Ex): All cardmasters gain the Throw Anything feat as a bonus feat at 2nd level. A cardmaster adds his Intelligence modifier to damage done with splash weapons, including the splash damage if any.

Knowledge of the Cards (Ex): Great knowledge can be found buried in gambling cards, and in the cards of the harrow deck, if one knows where to look. The cardmaster knows the secrets that the cards can teach, about oneself and the world around them. By thinking back upon the knowledge the cards possess the cardmaster can 1d4 points to any knowledge check, that he is capable of making.

Luck of the Draw (Su): When the cardmaster uses his card throw ability he can choose to tap further into what magical knowledge he has to apply a magical effect to the card he throws. However in the heat of the moment the cardmaster can never be sure what kind of magical effect will choose to manifest itself. When using this ability roll 1d6 to determine what ability is added to the card throw ability.
(1-2)Card of Force: When the cardmaster throws a card, it inflicts force damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from a card of force are knocked prone unless they succeed on a Reflex save.
(3-4)Frost Card: When the cardmaster throws a card, it becomes covered in ice and inflicts cold damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from frost card are staggered on their next turn unless they succeed on a Fortitude save.
(5-6)Card of the Inferno: When the cardmaster throws a card it erupts in arcane fire and inflicts fire damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from a card of the inferno take an additional 1d6 points of fire damage.

Harrowed (Su): Due to his affinity for fate and his knowledge of the Harrow deck once per day, a cardmaster may draw a card from a Harrow deck he owns. At any one time for the rest of that day, he may apply a +2 bonus on any d20 roll modified by the card’s suit. For example, if he drew a card from the suit of Wisdom, he may apply a +2 bonus on a Will save or a Wisdom-based skill check. If he drew a card from the suit of Dexterity, he could apply this +2 bonus on an Initiative check, a Reflex save, a Dexterity-based skill check, or a ranged attack roll. He may assign this +2 bonus after he makes the roll, but he must do so before he knows if the roll was a success or not. If the cardmaster doesn’t have an actual Harrow deck handy to draw from to determine his bonus, he can randomly determine the ability score by simply rolling 1d6 (1 = Strength, 2 = Constitution, 3 = Dexterity, 4 = Intelligence, 5 = Wisdom, 6 = Charisma).

Read the Cards (Ex): The cardmaster begins to understand more about the magic that he has control of. He is therefore able to influence, if only slightly, the kind of magic he unleashes. This ability adds +1 to the roll used to determine the effects of the Luck of the Draw ability, and is an immediate action.

Shingle Runner (Ex): A cardmaster learns quickly that climbing and jumping off roofs provides a quick escape from town guards, or sore losers in card games. Cardmasters gain a +2 bonus on Climb and Acrobatics checks, and may take 10 on Climb checks even when distracted. If he falls, he automatically reduce the damage taken by the fall by one die, as if you had fallen 10 less feet. This reduction in damage stacks with the Acrobatics check to further reduce falling damage.

Blessing of the Harrow (Su): The cardmaster may, once per day, perform a harrowing for himself and all allies within 20 feet of him. This harrowing takes 10 minutes, and allies to be affected by it must remain within 20 feet for the entire time. The harrower interprets the harrowing as normal.
At the conclusion of the harrowing, count up suits of cards used in the reading. This harrowing provides a bonus based upon the suit with the most cards showing. In case of a tie, choose one suit. The bonus lasts for 24 hours. The suits grant morale bonuses as follows. Strength: +1 on attack rolls; Dexterity: +1 to AC; Constitution: +1 on weapon damage rolls; Intelligence: +1 on all skills; Wisdom: +1 on all saving throws; Charisma: +1 on caster level checks. All of these bonuses are insight bonuses.

Wild Card (Ex): As a standard action the cardmaster can throw three cards at his highest base attack bonus. These three cards deal damage equal to the damage done by the cardmaster’s card throw ability. These three cards can be thrown at a single opponent or divided amongst a maximum of three opponents. The cardmaster can use this ability 4 +Int modifier per day.

(Improved) Read the Cards (Ex): The cardmaster has become well versed in the magics he is able to wield and can exercise a fair amount of control over the outcome of his magic. This ability functions like Read the cards except that it applies a +2 bonus to any Luck of the Draw roll. This ability is an immediate action.

Cardwalk (Su): In an explosion of gambling cards that encircle the cardmaster he vanishes from his current spot and teleports 25 feet in any direction, reappearing in another explosion of cards. The cardmaster can use this ability three times per day beginning at 10th level.

Stacked Deck (Su): In order to fuel what small amount of magic a cardmaster has he has learned, that in times of great need, he can cast a spell by sacrificing some of his physical vitality. A cardmaster can cast a spell, using this ability by sacrificing a number of Constitution points equal to the level of the spell rather than using a spell slot. These lost points of Constitution are considered temporary ability score damage for all purposes, but they cannot be
healed by magical means and must be regained by rest. If the ability damage is prevented, the spell will fail.

Better Lucky than Good (Su): The cardmaster becomes incredibly lucky for the purpose of landing one attack. Once per day when a cardmaster rolls a natural 1 when making an attack role may use this ability as a swift action to instead treat it as a natural 20.

Smooth talker (Ex): A cardmaster of 13th level or higher can use his charismatic nature and quick wit to make a suggestion (as per the spell) to a creature that is not hostile to him. Using this ability requires a standard action to activate. A cardmaster can use this ability equal to 4 +Int modifier per day. A Will saving throw (DC 10 +1/2 the cardmaster’s level + the cardmaster’s Int modifier) negates the effect. This ability affects only a single creature. Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind affecting, language dependent ability and relies on audible components.

(Improved) Endue Energy (Su): As a cardmster’s grows in power so too does his ability to endue weapons with energy. (Improved) Endue Energy functions exactly like the Endue Energy ability except that attacks from this improved ability deal an additional 2d4 points of magic damage on a successful hit. Enemies with magic resistance and immunity to magic are not affected by the additional damage done from this ability.

Raise the Stakes (Ex): At 14th level the cardmaster can choose, at any time during combat, to focus on the precision of his attacks, at the expense of hiding the chinks in his own armor. Until the end of his next turn, any of the cardmaster’s attacks can score a critical hit on a roll of 17–20, and any attack against him can score a critical hit on a roll of 19–20. A cardmaster can use this ability once per encounter, additionally this ability does not stack with feats that improve critical hit chance.

Card Clone (Su): The cardmaster can create 1d4 duplicates of himself that conceal his true location. These duplicates are made up of cards and when struck return to the form of cards. This ability functions as the spell mirror image, using the cardmaster’s level as his caster level.

Dumb Luck(Su): Luck favors the cardmaster when he enters a situation that should kill him. Once per day when a cardmaster rolls a natural 1 when making a saving throw he may, as an immediate action treat the roll as a natural 20.

A Face in the Crowd (Ex): While in any rural location larger than a hamlet, a cardmaster of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed.

Knave’s Gambit (Ex): Beginning at 18th level once every other encounter a cardmaster may attempt to make a decisive attack using this ability. Should his attack miss the ferocity of cardmaster’s attack causes his startled enemy to strike out at another nearby foe. The cardmaster makes his attack at his highest base attack bonus but should his attack miss the target must makes a basic melee attack as a free action against an adjacent target other than the cardmaster. Additionally the attack caused with a miss from this ability gains a bonus to the attack roll and damage roll equal to the cardmaster’s Intelligence modifier.

Tempting Fate (Su): Lady Luck smiles on the cardmaster as she saves him from death’s door. Once per day whenever a cardmaster has at least 1 hit point remaining and would be dealt enough damage to kill him, he can use this ability as an immediate action to take only enough damage to reduce him to one point above his negative Constitution score, and automatically stabilizes.

52 Pickup (Ex): Once per day at 20th level the cardmaster can throw two full decks of gambling cards into the air pushing his magic into all of the cards at once, causing them to fly around his body acting as both a sword and shield to his enemies. These cards swirl around the cardmaster in a 10 foot radius burst, this area is treated as difficult terrain for anyone entering the burst, aside from the cardmaster. This shield of cards moves with the cardamaster and lasts until the end of the encounter in which it was activated. Opponents beginning their turns, or moving into, the storm of cards must take 5d6 points of damage; additionally any attack made against the cardmaster has a 50% miss chance due to the defensive nature of the magically effused cards. However this miss chance has no effect on environmental effects or supernatural abilities. Lastly after activating this ability any card throw, luck of the draw, or wild card attack receive a +2 bonus on attack rolls, in addition to their normal bonuses.

Cardmaster Spell List
Cardmasters gain access to the following spells. While the majority of these spells can be found in the Core Rulebook, those marked with an asterisk (*) appear in the Advanced Player’s Guide, and those marked with two asterisks (**) appear in Ultimate Magic.
0-Level Cardmaster Spells--- dancing lights, daze, detect magic, flare, ghost sound, know direction, light, mage hand, message*, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic, resistance, spark
1st -Level Cardmaster Spells--- acute sense, anticipate peril**, beguiling gift*, break*, bungle**, charm person, comprehend languages, confusion, lesser, dancing lantern*, delusional pride**, feather fall, feather step, flare burst*, grease, innocence*, jump, keen senses, longstrider, shield, silent image, unprepared combatant**, vanish, ventriloquism, vocal alteration**
2nd -Level Cardmaster Spells--- alter self, badger’s ferocity**, bear’s endurance, blur, boiling blood**, calm emotions, cat’s grace, cure light wounds, daze monster, delay pain**, delay poison, disguise other**, dust of twilight*, eagle’s splendor, frigid touch**, glide, heroism, hidden speech, hold person, honeyed tongue*, hypnotize, invisibility, minor image, misdirection, oppressive boredom, owl’s wisdom, resist energy, silence, snapdragon fireworks**, steal voice**, tongues, unnatural lust**
3rd -Level Cardmaster Spells--- ant haul, arcane concordance*, arcane sight, ash storm**, campfire wall, charm monster, clairaudience/clairvoyance, confusion, coordinated effort*, countless eyes**, cure moderate wounds, displacement, fear, flame arrow, force punch**, glibness, good hope, jester’s taunt*, keen edge, malicious spite**, pain strike, scrying, seek thoughts, shifting sand, sleet storm, slow, smug narcissism**, wind wall
4th -Level Cardmaster Spells--- arcane eye, break enchantment, denounce*, detect scrying, detonate*, echolocation**, envious urge**, fire trap, freedom of moment, geas, lesser, hallucinatory terrain, hold monster, illusionary wall, modify memory, moonstruck, neutralize poison, remove curse, shout, zone of silence
5th -Level Cardmaster Spells--- Aspect of the wolf*, Cure serious wounds, Dispel magic, Dominate person, False vision, Foe to friend, Joyful rapture**, Mirage arcana, Phantasmal killer, Prying eyes, Secret chest, Seeming, Sending, Threefold aspect*
6th -Level Cardmaster Spells--- acidic spray, analyze dweomer, bear’s endurance, mass, brilliant inspiration*, cold ice strike**, cure light wounds, mass, daze, mass, dominate monster, eagle’s splendor, mass, fool’s forbiddance*, fox’s cunning, mass, freezing sphere, geas, permanent image, teleport, true seeing, veil, vengeful outrage**

Harark

Oct 25, 2012, 10:22 am

That's... a lot of powers... Especially since half of them don't have level requirments...

And a full BAB, two good saves, spontaneous casting, and 7 skill ranks per level.

I think they need to be toned down a little, unless you're used to characters this powerful in your campaigns.

Goth Guru

Oct 25, 2012, 10:26 am

First, enduing. Don't you mean embuing?
Second, I was hoping this would be a full write up of the card summoner.
This is more like Gambit. If the cards are reusable, will there be +1 or silver edged decks?

theHunterD13

Oct 25, 2012, 10:30 am

Harark wrote:

That's... a lot of powers... Especially since half of them don't have level requirments...

And a full BAB, two good saves, spontaneous casting, and 7 skill ranks per level.

I think they need to be toned down a little, unless you're used to characters this powerful in your campaigns.

Thanks for your imput Harark, what do you suggest should be toned down specifically? Would taking down skill ranks and having only one good save start to make it more balanced?

theHunterD13

Oct 25, 2012, 10:33 am

Goth Guru wrote:

First, enduing. Don't you mean embuing?
Second, I was hoping this would be a full write up of the card summoner.
This is more like Gambit. If the cards are reusable, will there be +1 or silver edged decks?

Yes Guru, enduing should be embuing I'm not the world's best speller, thank you for pointing that out. My focus is to make this more like Gambit as stated in the intro paragraph on this topic, and do you think the cards should be reusable or would that make it too strong? I do have plans for +1 decks and silver edged decks. Thank you for your suggestions, and please keep them coming.

Goth Guru

Oct 25, 2012, 11:53 am

I would think just damaging cards, (Like the Joker's) would be reusable, and slashing. If you make a firestorm, that card should be history.
To make it more balanced, I would treat the basic card throw like a thrown dagger(Like the Joker). Save the splash damage for the higher level Card Bomb. If the cards always go boom, a necromancer could throw zombies at your 52 pickup, and toss the splash damage in your face. I think it would be better as a personal blade barrier.
Note that in the dawn of the renascence, when the game is set, cards were not that cheep. A deck of cards might go for the price of a zero level potion.

Sphen86

Oct 25, 2012, 02:51 pm

One of the biggest things I noticed is this. I really don't think that this should be and INT based caster. This seems more like a CHA based caster, especially since the flavor of it seems so roguish. Also with the number of skill points they get, this overpowers them.

Other than that, the full BAB needs to go. It should be no higher than 3/4 BAB, just to keep it in balance with other casters. And change the skills per level. Make it either 6 or 8, not somewhere in between.

On the subject of cards. They could either get a set to start with (recommended), get Craft (cards), or both. Another option is to get a set available to purchase for cheap so they can have spares.

Second, this is an arcane caster that has light armor proficiency. However, they don't have the same ability that Bards have that let them use light armor without arcane spell failure. So giving them this ability is either a waste or telling them "You need to take Arcane Armor Training" for it to be of any use.

Your card throw example. It says that splash damage is always the minimal damage. You use 2d4+4 and say that the minimal is 4. It isn't, it is 6.

Read the Cards: You say that the cardmaster gets the ability to better control his luck of the cards ability. But it only gives a +1 when used. This doesn't really give him that much control. It would be incredibly more useful if the cardmaster could choose between either a +1 or -1.

Next question, they get throw anything as a feat, but you need to either give them catch off guard or say they get it without this prereq.

Other than that, the Improved Embuing. Instead of bringing it up to 2d4 per level, it would be more in line to have it go to 1d6.

Lastly, a few theme things. 52 card pick up states that it uses two decks. Traditionally, there are 52 cards in one deck. Something to think of.

That's all I've got for this one, hope it helps as I think that the flavor here is really cool. Repost it when you're satisfied with it.

Azten

Oct 25, 2012, 05:56 pm

Looks interesting. I'll give it a look when I have more time.

Oceanshieldwolf

Oct 25, 2012, 06:13 pm

Cool riff on Gambit. I agree it should be Cha based, 3/4 BAB and receive some sort of armored spell casting. Though the armor doesn't really feel that thematically appropriate. I get the reasoning for full BAB, wanting that kind of unerring aim, but still. Perhaps you could achieve a false BAB with an untyped, progressing "Bullseye" power. (Apologies to the superpowered individual named Bullseye...)

Thoughts:

Better lucky than good: Even one/day seems OP - rather than swap a 1 for a 20, make it a reroll. Roll 1 again and you're s&!t out of luck.

Dumb Luck: I would make this only usable when the attak/effect being saved against actually has the potential to reduce you to 0 or below hit points.

Apart from agreeing that there are a lot of things going on here, some
powers have no specified level and that the roof running schtick feels totally tacked on "because maybe Gambit did that once" I like it a lot. Especially Card Clones

Ciaran Barnes

Oct 25, 2012, 06:20 pm

There are no full-bab classes with 6-level casting. A ranger has full-bab and two good saves, so 4-level casting would make some sense. If you want to keep 6-level I would suggest 3/4 bab and 6 skill points.

Improve the chasis and I'll take a look at the features.

theHunterD13

Oct 29, 2012, 07:21 pm

First I want to say thank you to everyone for posting comments and suggestions it is very appreciated and every comment has helped me improve the class for this second draft. Second you all have amazing suggestions on what to do for class building so I ask that you all stick with me as I continue to update and expand upon this class.

theHunterD13

Oct 29, 2012, 07:46 pm

CARDMASTER DRAFT 2

Role: The cardmaster’s reputation often precedes him (often in a negative fashion). His ability to dabble in magic, coupled with his charismatic nature often gets the cardmaster in trouble with the locals of any village. No slouch in a fight the cardmaster embues his weapons, and most often his favorite gambling cards, with magical energy allowing them to deal a fair degree of damage to his opponents. Add to this the cardmaster’s agile nature, and other talents, make the cardmaster a begrudgingly welcome addition to any group of adventurers.

Alignment: Any.
Hit dice: d8
Base Attack Bonus: 3/4
Good Saves: Reflex

Class Skills
The cardmaster’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int) Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Cards) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Class Features
The following are class features of the cardmaster.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Cardmasters are proficient with all simple weapons in addition to the falchion, rapier, sword cane, and the swordbreaker dagger. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields. A cardmaster can cast cardmaster spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a cardmaster wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass cardmaster still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Spells: A cardmaster casts arcane spells drawn from the carmaster spell list presented at the end of this section. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a cardmaster must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a cardmaster’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the cardmaster’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a cardmaster can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the accompanying table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high charisma score (see Table 1–3 from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook).
The cardmaster’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A cardmaster begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1stlevel spells of the cardmaster’s choice. At each new cardmaster level, he gains one or more new spells. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a cardmaster knows is not affected by his Intelligence score. The numbers on the table are fixed.)
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third cardmaster level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a cardmaster can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the cardmaster “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level cardmaster spell the cardmaster can cast. A cardmaster may swap only a single spell at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
A cardmaster need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Embue Energy (Su):though the cardmaster is nowhere near as strong with magic as some other classes he is able to apply what magic he can control to a variety of fields many casters cannot; one such area is the ability to embue magical energy into his weapons. Focusing his magic into his weapon it becomes coated in magical energy allowing it deal additional damage. This ability can only be used upon weapons the cardmaster is proficient with. Attacks from weapons endued with energy deal an additional 1d4 points of magic damage on a successful hit. Enemies with magic resistance and immunity to magic are not affected by the additional damage done from this ability.

Card Throw (Ex): In addition to regular weapons, a cardmaster is adept at pushing the magical energy of his embue energy ability into gambling cards that he can then hurl at his enemies. A cardmaster can use this ability a number of times per day equal to double his level + his charisma modifier, or until he runs out of cards to throw, whichever comes first. Once the card is embued with energy it becomes unstable, and if not thrown in the round in which they are created expels the pent up energy in the form of an explosion centered on the cardmaster, or where ever the card is left.
Drawing a card and throwing it requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown cards have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack (see page 202 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook). For the cardmaster thrown cards are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, a cardmaster’s card inflicts 1d4 points of energy and piercing damage + additional damage equal to the cardmaster’s charisma modifier. The damage of a cardmaster’s card increases by 1d4 points at every odd-numbered cardmaster level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from a cardmaster’s card is always equal to the cards minimum damage (so if the card would deal 2d4+4 points of energy damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of energy damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cardmaster’s level + the cardmaster’s charisma modifier.

Throw Anything (Ex): All cardmasters gain the Throw Anything feat as a bonus feat at 2nd level, even if they do not meet the prerequisites. A cardmaster adds his charisma modifier to damage done with splash weapons, including the splash damage if any.

Read the Cards (Ex): The cardmaster begins to understand more about the magic that he has control of. He is therefore able to influence, if only slightly, the kind of magic he unleashes. This ability can add a +1/-1 to the roll used to determine the effects of the Luck of the Draw ability, and is an immediate action and is determined by the cardmaster.

(Improved) Read the Cards (Ex): The cardmaster has become well versed in the magics he is able to wield and can exercise a fair amount of control over the outcome of his magic. This ability functions like Read the cards except that it applies a +2/-2 bonus to any Luck of the Draw roll. This ability is an immediate action.

Cardwalk (Su): In an explosion of gambling cards that encircle the cardmaster he vanishes from his current location and teleports 25 feet in any direction, reappearing in another explosion of cards. The cardmaster can use this ability three times per day beginning at 10th level.

Stacked Deck (Su): In order to fuel what small amount of magic a cardmaster has he has learned, that in times of great need, he can cast a spell by sacrificing some of his physical vitality. A cardmaster can cast a spell, using this ability by sacrificing a number of Constitution points equal to the level of the spell rather than using a spell slot. These lost points of Constitution are considered temporary ability score damage for all purposes, but they cannot be healed by magical means and must be regained by rest. If the ability damage is prevented, the spell will fail.

Smooth talker (Ex): A cardmaster of 13th level or higher can use his charismatic nature and quick wit to make a suggestion (as per the spell) to a creature that is not hostile to him. Using this ability requires a standard action to activate. A cardmaster can use this ability equal to 4 +cha modifier per day. A Will saving throw (DC 10 +1/2 the cardmaster’s level + the cardmaster’s Cha modifier) negates the effect. This ability affects only a single creature. Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind affecting, and language dependent ability and relies on audible components.

Spells Known
Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st 3 1 - - - - -
2nd 3 1 - - - - -
3rd 3 2 - - - - -
4th 4 2 1 - - - -
5th 4 2 1 - - - -
6th 4 3 2 - - - -
7th 5 3 2 1 - - -
8th 5 3 2 2 - - -
9th 5 3 3 2 - - -
10th 5 4 3 2 1 - -
11th 6 4 3 2 2 - -
12th 6 4 4 3 2 - -
13th 6 5 4 3 3 1 -
14th 6 5 4 3 3 2 -
15th 6 5 5 4 4 2 -
16th 6 5 5 4 4 3 1
17th 6 6 5 5 4 4 2
18th 6 6 6 5 5 4 3
19th 6 6 6 5 5 4 4
20th 6 6 6 6 6 5 5

(Improved) Embue Energy (Su): As a cardmster grows in power so too does his ability to embue weapons with energy. (Improved) Embue Energy functions exactly like the Embue Energy ability except that attacks from this improved ability deal an additional 1d6 points of magic damage on a successful hit. Enemies with magic resistance and immunity to magic are not affected by the additional damage done from this ability.

Raise the Stakes (Ex): At 14th level the cardmaster can choose, at any time during combat, to focus on the precision of his attacks, at the expense of hiding the chinks in his own armor. Until the end of his next turn, any of the cardmaster’s attacks can score a critical hit on a roll of 17–20, and any attack against him can score a critical hit on a roll of 19–20. A cardmaster can use this ability once per encounter; additionally this ability does not stack with feats that improve critical hit chance.

A Face in the Crowd (Ex): While in any rural location larger than a hamlet, a cardmaster of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed.

52 Pickup (Ex): Once per day at 20th level the cardmaster can throw a full deck of gambling cards into the air pushing his magic into all of the cards at once, causing them to fly around his body acting as both a sword and shield to his enemies. These cards swirl around the cardmaster in a 10 foot radius burst, this area is treated as difficult terrain for anyone entering the burst, aside from the cardmaster. This shield of cards moves with the cardamaster and lasts until the end of the encounter in which it was activated. Opponents beginning their turns, or moving into, the storm of cards must take 5d6 points of damage; additionally any attack made against the cardmaster has a 50% miss chance due to the defensive nature of the magically effused cards. However this miss chance has no effect on environmental effects or supernatural abilities. Lastly after activating this ability any card throw, luck of the draw, or wild card attack receive a +2 bonus on attack rolls, in addition to their normal bonuses.

Rhatahema

Oct 29, 2012, 11:02 pm

I'm not seeing a level designation for most of these abilities.

I'd follow Pathfinder's model of the even-level selectable ability (rogue talents, discoveries, rage powers, etc.) These class features are all over the map, so I think it'd make sense. You could divide the abilities into trees by theme (rerolls, card draws, etc). Also, rather than having a handful of x times per day abilities to keep track of, give the cardmaster a luck pool.

I'm not a fan of supernatural abilities that more-or-less duplicate spells, especially for spellcasting classes (Card Clone). You could think about replacing abilities like this with class-exclusive spells. 52 Pick Up might make a good 6th level spell, requiring the expenditure of luck points, for instance.

Besides those general observations, some specific ones:

Spoiler:

Embue Energy: This is a lot like arcane strike. Think about expanding on arcane strike rather than making a new feature that mimics its.

Card Throw: What is "energy and piercing damage"? What kind of energy? Is it half-and-half? Unclear. Thematically, you might make the damage d12 to approximate the range of the cards (maybe a natural 20 is an Ace and a natural 1 a Joker?)

Luck of the Draw/Read the Cards/Improved Read the Cards: Fold this into a single ability, with the floating modifier based on level. And again, think about using card themes as a design foundation. Why not roll a D4, where the result is a club, heart, diamond, or spade? At higher levels, I wouldn't mind seeing this expanded to include a wider variety of effects, such as by factoring in the damage value with the d4 value to emulate a range of 52 cards. Too extreme for a single class feature, but just an idea.

Raise the Stakes: I would make this a bonus and penalty, such as saying the threat range of the cardmasters attacks is increased by 2, but he takes a -2 penalty to AC. The typical threat range of a character's weapon shouldn't be made irrelevant by replacing it with a static threat range. Increasing the enemy's threat range is interesting, but it's more for the DM to keep track of than simply lowering your character's AC.

Knave's Gambit: This ability breaks too many design rules. It's an attack you want to miss? You can only use it every odd encounter? The enemy gets no save? Change this to some kind of immediate or readied action, such as allowing the cardmaster to redirect a missed attack made against him towards a creature within the attacker's reach. I think there was a 3.5 feat with a similar function. (By the way, a creature can only take a free action on its turn). You might make this and Raise the Stakes part of a selectable tree of abilities based on strategically lowering your defenses.

Flamehawke

Oct 29, 2012, 11:18 pm

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Something to take into account. paizo released the feat Deadly Dealer. It requires Arcane Strike and was released in the Varisa book

Deadly Dealer:

d20pfsrd wrote:

Your skill with handling cards and arcane talents allow you to turn mundane cards into deadly weapons.

Prerequisites: Arcane Strike, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks.

Benefit: You can throw a card as though it were a dart, with the same damage, range, and other features. You must use the Arcane Strike feat when throwing a card in this way, or else the card lacks the magical force and precision to deal lethal damage. A card is destroyed when thrown in this way.

Harrow cards are treated as masterwork weapons when thrown using this feat, but are still destroyed after they are thrown. A harrow deck can no longer be used as a fortunetelling device after even a single card is thrown.

A spellcaster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. This enhancement functions only when used in tandem with this feat, and has no affect on any other way the cards might be used. Only a character who possesses this feat can make use of an enhanced deck of cards, and must still use the Arcane Strike feat to activate the cards’ enhancement.

theHunterD13

Feb 9, 2013, 07:07 pm

Want to thank everyone on their feedback. The class is still undergoing changes and is improving each time I repost it. You all have really amazing ideas on how to make this class something special. I hope to have another version up soon.

+5 Toaster

Feb 9, 2013, 07:21 pm

i feel obligated to say this
(readies action against attack)
Me: come on
GM: i atta...
Me: I ACTIVATE MY TRAP CARD!
GM: (face palm)

Kitsune Knight

Feb 9, 2013, 07:58 pm

Just to put my two cents in here.

1) I think he should get a good will save. It strikes me as odd that an arcane trickster/gambit type of class would be weak to charm spells.

2) Also, their spell casting right now is split between intelligence and charisma, with caster level being 10+Intelligence but save DCs being 10+spell level+Charisma modifier. Personally, it should be one or the other with my vote going towards charisma.

Those where the two glaring things I saw. I'll post more once I do a more thorough reading.

theHunterD13

Feb 9, 2013, 08:09 pm

+5 Toaster, that is hilarious comment that I can see being said at many tables.

Kitsune Knight, that would be a change I missed when initially changing it from an intelligence class to a charisma based class. Thank you for pointing that out. I will fix that in my next edit of the class. Also do you think they should have a good reflex and will save or JUST a good will save?

IejirIsk

Feb 9, 2013, 08:23 pm

How many spells known are there? you have listed at first level, both 4/2 and 3/1 ... also: looks at the sorc progression of spells to get a more balanced view, he probably should get a spell of some tier every level.

and a d8 hit die for a ranged pseudo-caster? isnt the fighter a d8...

theHunterD13

Feb 10, 2013, 11:43 am

IejirIsk wrote:

How many spells known are there? you have listed at first level, both 4/2 and 3/1 ... also: looks at the sorc progression of spells to get a more balanced view, he probably should get a spell of some tier every level.

and a d8 hit die for a ranged pseudo-caster? isnt the fighter a d8...

The Fighter is a d10, so teh cardmaster is comparable (in terms of HD to a rogue). Will take a closer look at sorcerer like you suggest. If you have any other tips or suggestions let me know. Much obliged.

theHunterD13

Feb 10, 2013, 11:48 am

Also for those who think the cardmaster should be built around a Luck pool should the luck pool be a static number that replaces each day like the Magus' Arcane Pool or should the pool fluctuate throughout the day based on factors like critical hits, etc. like a Gunslinger's Grit feature?

Kitsune Knight

Feb 10, 2013, 12:04 pm

I would say both good reflex and good will saves personally.

Also, if we are voting on a luck pool I would prefer it to work as the magus' arcane pool myself.

Furthermore, I would prefer spell progression similar to a Bard or a Magus over the sorcerer.

Ramza Wyvernjack

Feb 13, 2013, 09:12 am

Goth Guru wrote:

First, enduing. Don't you mean embuing?
Second, I was hoping this would be a full write up of the card summoner.
This is more like Gambit. If the cards are reusable, will there be +1 or silver edged decks?

It's actually 'Imbuing' as in.

Personally I'd change/add /Imbuing Energy/ and /Card Throw/ into perhaps something more passive, like:

The Cardmaster gains Throw Anything feat for free and adds his Cha Mod to damage(like alhcemist adds int), including the splash damage if any. When used to throw cards or other small, usually non-lethal objects such as coins, needles or dices, he treats them as Simple thrown weapons that deal 1d4 and is proficient in using them. (Effectively making them work as Darts.) At level Xth the damage is increased to 1d6, and again at Xth to 1d8.

Add 2nd ability: /Volatile Infusion/
3 + Cha mod times per day, the Cardmaster may imbue a number of throwing weapons equal to his level with explosive energy, turning them into a splash weapons.

But that's just me, if he's gonna have a trademark weapon, I personally prefer for a character to be able to use it a lot, after all, a fighter isn't limited on sword swings or bow shots.

I like the Twisted Fate champion reference.
Wild card seems bit strong, reasonable Cha means seven times per day, he can triple-strike a foe, should maybe just hand out Manyshot feat.

Card clone needs an use limit, such as once per day. Usually abilities are 3 + main stat mod, not 4 +.

Raise the stakes is a bit high, 18-20 is a high crit weapon, 17-20 is pretty darn high. Also specify it doesn't stack with other crit improvements such as Improved Critical or Keen ability.

The Big Cheese

Feb 18, 2013, 03:51 pm

Personally I think you should have a Luck Pool function as the Monks Ki Pool.
At 4th level, gain a number of Luck Points equal to 1/2 level + Charisma Modifier.
Can spend 1 Luck point when making a ranged attack(like cards) to treat BAB equal to the Cardmaster's level.
Spend 1 Luck Point to gain a +4 Dodge Bonus to AC for 1 round
Spend Luck points to use the Card-Burst-Teleport business I saw.
Use the Luck Points to make Card Clones, Luck of the Draw, etc,
So many things you can do with a pseudo Ki-Pool.

+5 Toaster

Feb 18, 2013, 05:08 pm

why not any summon monster spells?

theHunterD13

Apr 6, 2013, 11:12 am

Hey everyone its been awhile since my last update so I thought I'd give you a glimpse at what I've been working on. Below are two options that I've been building for the luck pool one based off the gunslingers grit feature which encourages the cardmaster to get into combat and use his abilities to do some damage. The other is based on the monk's kai pool which encourages clever use of the luck pool to make some interesting things happen, for now two buffs are added to this pool but a couple more are planned. For now both versions of the ability are received at lv. 4. Let me know what you guys think.

Luck (Ex): A cardmaster makes his mark upon the world with underhanded exploits. Some cardmasters claim that the hand of Lady Luck guides them, but it’s more likely that their dangerous lifestyle simply prunes the unlucky and careless from their ranks. Whatever the reason, all cardmasters have luck. In game terms, luck is a fluctuating measure of a cardmaster’s ability to perform amazing, and often times underhanded, actions. At the start of each day, a cardmaster gains a number of luck points equal to his Charisma modifier (minimum 1). His luck goes up or down throughout the day, but usually cannot go higher than his Charisma modifier (minimum 1), though some feats and magic items may affect this maximum.
Critical Hit with an Imbued Weapon: Each time the cardmaster confirms a critical hit with an imbued attack while in the heat of combat, he regains 1 luck point. Confirming a critical hit on a helpless or unaware creature or on a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the cardmaster’s character level does not restore luck.
Killing Blow with an Imbued Weapon: When the cardmaster reduces a creature to 0 or fewer hit points with an imbued attack while in the heat of combat, he regains 1 luck point. Destroying an unattended object, reducing a helpless or unaware creature to 0 or fewer hit points, or reducing a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the cardmaster’s character level to 0 or fewer hit points does not restore any luck.

Ciaran Barnes

Apr 6, 2013, 12:37 pm

Did you think about implementing a mechanic that requires the player to use an actual deck of cards? There would need to be shuffling and/or discarding required at certain points, but it could be fun.

theHunterD13

Apr 6, 2013, 02:38 pm

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

Did you think about implementing a mechanic that requires the player to use an actual deck of cards? There would need to be shuffling and/or discarding required at certain points, but it could be fun.

I didn't think of that. Maybe once I work out all the basics for the class I'll create a side bar or something that deals with a deck of cards, but we will see. Like you said it could be alot of fun. Thanks for the input.

Godwyn

Apr 19, 2013, 02:14 am

I understand the intent of the gambit-like class, but really, I don't see anything in it that requires a new base class that doesn't work fine as an alchemist archetype. Bombs ability merges to the cards, a lot of the special abilities work as unique discoveries, or trade them out. Extracts use cards instead of whatever nonsensical stuff alchemists use to begin with. I think I would actually like that variant more than the base alchemist.

I am just generally a fan of simplicity, and it seems more efficient to use the tools already provided in the form of base classes and archetypes than designing an entirely new class.

theHunterD13

Jun 20, 2013, 06:27 am

Hello again everyone, it has been awhile. I have taken all comments into consideration and am ready to release my latest version of the cardmaster. In my opinion this is the best version of the class, so far, though it could probably do with some final tweaks and playtesting. Let me know what you think.

Those gifted with the power to wield magic are often viewed with great respect and brandish massive amounts of power; yet sometimes only a trickle of magic blossoms within a person. This curse, or gift, to control even a small amount of magic can often aid someone if they know how to apply the magic. Cardmasters are a rare breed of scoundrel who are born with a slight knack for magic. Though not as strong with magic as a wizard or sorcerer a cardmaster puts what knowledge of magic he has to aid his underhanded tricks and games of chance. By enduing items, and weapons, with magic energy the cardmaster can turn even a deck of gambling cards into deadly projectile weapons.
Role: The cardmaster’s reputation often precedes him (often in a negative fashion). His ability to dabble in magic, coupled with his charismatic nature often gets the cardmaster in trouble with the locals of any village. No slouch in a fight the cardmaster embues his weapons, and most often his favorite gambling cards, with magical energy allowing them to deal a fair degree of damage to his opponents. Add to this the cardmaster’s agile nature, and other talents, make the cardmaster a begrudgingly welcome addition to any group of adventurers.
Alignment: Any.
Hit dice: d8

Class Features
The following are class features of the cardmaster.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Cardmasters are proficient with all simple weapons in addition to the falchion, rapier, sword cane, and the swordbreaker dagger. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields. A cardmaster can cast cardmaster spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a cardmaster wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass cardmaster still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spells: A cardmaster casts arcane spells drawn from the carmaster spell list presented at the end of this section. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a cardmaster must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a cardmaster’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the cardmaster’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a cardmaster can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the accompanying table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high charisma score (see Table 1–3 from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook).
The cardmaster’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A cardmaster begins play knowing three 0-level spells and one 1st level spell of the cardmaster’s choice. At each new cardmaster level, he gains one or more new spells. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a cardmaster knows is not affected by his Intelligence score. The numbers on the table are fixed.)
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third cardmaster level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a cardmaster can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the cardmaster “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level cardmaster spell the cardmaster can cast. A cardmaster may swap only a single spell at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
A cardmaster need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.
Cantrips: Cardmasters learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on the accompanying table under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
Imbue Energy (Su): Though the cardmaster is nowhere near as strong with magic as some other classes he has learned to apply what magic he can control to a variety of fields many casters cannot. One such area is the ability to imbue magical energy into his weapons. The cardmaster gains the Arcane Strike feat as a bonus feat at first level
Card Throw (Ex): In addition to regular weapons, a cardmaster is adept at pushing the magical energy of his imbue energy ability into gambling cards that he can then hurl at his enemies. This ability functions like the Deadly Dealer feat with the following additions:
Cards thrown by a cardmaster gain the Throw Splash Weapon special attack (see page 202 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook), and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. The damage of a cardmaster’s card increases by 1d4 points at every odd-numbered cardmaster level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from a cardmaster’s card is always equal to the cards minimum damage (so if the card would deal 2d4+4 points of damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cardmaster’s level + the cardmaster’s charisma modifier.
Gambler’s Gifts: As a cardmaster gains experience, he gains a number of gifts that aid him and confound his foes. Starting at 2nd level, a cardmaster gains one gambler’s gift. He gains an additional gambler’s gift for every 2 levels of cardmaster attained after 2nd level. A cardmaster cannot select an individual gift more than once. Some gifts also require the cardmaster to spend luck points.
• A Face in the Crowd (Ex): While in any rural location larger than a hamlet, a cardmaster can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. A cardmaster must be 16th level or higher before selecting this ability.
• Ace in the Hole (Ex): The cardmaster always hold something in reserve for a “rainy day”. A cardmaster with this ability can easily conceal weapons on his body. The cardmaster adds his level on opposed Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a small item, weapon, or deck of cards on his person. In addition, she can draw hidden weapons as a move action, instead of as a standard action.
• Better Lucky than Good (Su): The cardmaster becomes incredibly lucky for the purpose of landing one attack. Once per day when a cardmaster rolls a natural 1 when making an attack role may use this ability as a swift action immediately reroll his attack. A cardmaster must be 6th level or higher before selecting this ability.
• Deadly Range (Ex): A cardmaster with this gambler’s gift increases the range at which he can throw cards by 10 feet. A cardmaster can take this gift more than once. Its effects stack.
• Dumb Luck (Su): Luck favors the cardmaster when he enters a situation that should kill him. Once per day when a cardmaster rolls a natural 1 when making a saving throw he may, as an immediate action may reroll the saving throw.
• Knowledge of the Cards (Ex): Great knowledge can be found buried in gambling cards, and in the cards of the harrow deck, if one knows where to look. The cardmaster knows the secrets that the cards can teach, about oneself and the world around them. Using 1 point of luck the cardmaster thinks back upon the knowledge the cards possess, and can add 1d4 points to any knowledge check, that he is capable of making.
• Luck of the Draw (Su): When the cardmaster uses his card throw ability he can choose to tap further into what magical knowledge he has to apply a magical effect to the card he throws. However in the heat of the moment the cardmaster can never be sure what kind of magical effect will choose to manifest itself. When using this ability roll 1d6 to determine what ability is added to the card throw ability. Using this ability spends 1 point of luck.
o (1-2)Card of Force: When the cardmaster throws a card, it inflicts sonic damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from a card of force are knocked prone unless they succeed on a Reflex save.
o (3-4)Frost Card: When the cardmaster throws a card, it becomes covered in ice and inflicts cold damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from frost card are staggered on their next turn unless they succeed on a Fortitude save.
o (5-6)Inferno Card: When the cardmaster throws a card it erupts in arcane fire and inflicts fire damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from a card of the inferno take an additional 1d6 points of fire damage.
• Lucky Start (Ex): The hands of fate guide the cardmaster’s actions allowing him to reroll his initiative check by expending a point of luck from his luck pool.
• Make My Own Luck (Su): By spending a point of luck from his luck pool the cardmaster may, as an immediate action, reroll a skill check, as long as he has at least 1 rank in that skill.
• Read the Cards (Ex): The cardmaster begins to understand more about the magic that he has control of. He is therefore able to influence, if only slightly, the kind of magic he unleashes. By spending 1 point of luck this ability can add a +1/-1 to the roll used to determine the effects of the Luck of the Draw ability, and is an immediate action and is determined by the cardmaster.
• Shingle Runner (Ex): The cardmaster gains a +2 bonus on all Climb and Acrobatics checks, and may take 10 on Climb checks even when distracted. If he should fall, he automatically reduces the damage taken by the fall by one die, as if he had fallen 10 less feet. This reduction in damage stacks with the Acrobatics check to further reduce falling damage.
• Smooth talker (Ex): A cardmaster can use his charismatic nature and quick wit to make a suggestion (as per the spell) to a creature that is not hostile to him. Using this ability requires a standard action to activate. A cardmaster can use this ability equal to 4 +cha modifier per day. A Will saving throw (DC 10 +1/2 the cardmaster’s level + the cardmaster’s Cha modifier) negates the effect. This ability affects only a single creature. Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind affecting, and language dependent ability and relies on audible components. A cardmaster must 12th level or higher before selecting this ability.
• Throw Anything (Ex): The cardmaster gains Throw Anything as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A cardmaster adds his charisma modifier to damage done with splash weapons, including the splash damage if any.
• Volatile Infusion (Su): 3 + his charisma modifier times per day, the Cardmaster may imbue a number of throwing weapons equal to his level with explosive energy, turning them into a splash weapons.
• Wild Card (Ex): As a full-attack action the cardmaster can throw three cards at his highest base attack bonus. This ability acts like the manyshot feat, replacing arrows for cards. These three cards deal damage equal to the damage done by the cardmaster’s card throw ability. To use this ability the cardmaster must spend 1 point of luck.
Luck (Ex): A cardmaster makes his mark upon the world with underhanded exploits. Some cardmasters claim that the hand of Lady Luck guides them, but it’s more likely that their dangerous lifestyle simply prunes the unlucky and careless from their ranks. Whatever the reason, all cardmasters have luck. At 2nd level the cardmaster gains a number of Luck equal to ½ his level + his charisma Modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the cardmaster prepares his spells.
A cardmaster can spend a point of luck when making a ranged attack, including his card throw ability, to treat his base attack bonus equal to his cardmaster level, or to activate some of his gambler’s gifts abilities. Additionally at 4th level the cardmaster can spend a point of luck to gain a +4 Dodge Bonus to his AC for 1 round. At level 10 the cardmaster can spend a point of luck to gain an additional use of his cardwalk ability.
Fortune’s Favor: At 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a cardmaster can choose one of the following fortune’s favor abilities in place of a gambler’s gift ability.
• All In (Su): the cardmaster risks damage to himself to cause maximum damage to an opponent. Before an attack roll is made flip a coin (this coin flip or 1d2 roll cannot be modified by any other abilities, though the attack roll can be). If he calls it correctly and then successfully hits his opponent with an attack roll, his attack deals maximum damage. If he misses, he provokes an attack of opportunity from any creature that threatens him and takes maximum damage from the next attack made by the targeted opponent (if that attack is made within one round). Using this ability costs one point of luck.
• Card Clone (Su): The cardmaster can create 1d4 duplicates of himself that conceal his true location. These duplicates are made up of cards and when struck return to the form of cards. This ability functions as the spell mirror image, using the cardmaster’s level as his caster level. This ability uses 1 point of luck.
• Cunning Dealer (Ex): The cardmaster has become well versed in the magics he is able to wield and can exercise a fair amount of control over the outcome of his magic. This ability functions like Read the Cards except that it applies a +2/-2 bonus to any Luck of the Draw roll. This ability is an immediate action.
• Evasion (Ex): A cardmaster can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the cardmaster is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless cardmaster does not gain the benefit of evasion.
• Raise the Stakes (Ex): The cardmaster can choose to focus on the precision of his attacks, at the expense of hiding the chinks in his own armor. Until the end of his next turn the threat range of the cardmaster’s attacks are increased by 2, but he takes a -2 penalty to his armor class. Using this ability doesn't stack with other critical threat improvements such as Improved Critical or Keen abilities. Using this ability uses 1 point of luck.
• Stacked Deck (Su): In order to fuel what small amount of magic a cardmaster has learned, that in times of great need, he can cast a spell by sacrificing some of his physical vitality. A cardmaster can cast a spell, using this ability by sacrificing a number of Constitution points equal to the level of the spell rather than using a spell slot. These lost points of Constitution are considered temporary ability score damage for all purposes, but they cannot be healed by magical means and must be regained by rest. If the ability damage is prevented, the spell will fail.
• Tempting Fate (Su): Lady Luck smiles on the cardmaster as she saves him from death’s door. Once per day whenever a cardmaster has at least 1 hit point remaining and would be dealt enough damage to kill him, he can use this ability as an immediate action to take only enough damage to reduce him to one point above his negative Constitution score, and automatically stabilizes.
• Lucky Victor (Su): The cardmaster can expend one point of luck as a swift action to reroll a critical threat confirmation roll.
Cardwalk (Su): In an explosion of gambling cards that encircle the cardmaster he vanishes from his current location and teleports 25 feet in any direction, reappearing in another explosion of cards. Using this ability costs one point of luck.
52 Pickup (Ex): Once per day at 20th level the cardmaster can throw a full deck of gambling cards into the air pushing his magic into all of the cards at once, causing them to fly around his body acting as both a sword and shield to his enemies. These cards swirl around the cardmaster in a 10 foot radius burst, this area is treated as difficult terrain for anyone entering the burst, aside from the cardmaster. This shield of cards moves with the cardamaster and lasts until the end of the encounter in which it was activated. Opponents beginning their turns, or moving into, the storm of cards must take 5d6 points of damage; additionally any attack made against the cardmaster has a 50% miss chance due to the defensive nature of the magically effused cards. However this miss chance has no effect on environmental effects or supernatural abilities. Lastly after activating this ability any card throw, luck of the draw, or wild card attack receive a +2 bonus on attack rolls, in addition to their normal bonuses.

theHunterD13

Jul 5, 2013, 01:57 am

Bump...

Oceanshieldwolf

Jul 5, 2013, 03:25 am

Looking better, still have a few questions though:

* Why do the cards do splash damage? Are they bomb-cards?

* Looking at the spell list, what role is this guy fulfilling, and how does that tie into the theme of the class as evidenced by the spell list choices? Or, simply, why those spells? Just curious...

* Where did the harrow stuff go? I guess it could go into a harrower archetype...

* Some of the abilities (tempting fate, lucky victor, Lucky start, make my own luck) seem more about luck in general than a card gambler's luck - it feels like the Cardmaster, while a specific trope suffers from attempting some generalised stuff. Not necessarily a criticism, more an observation - just feels a little like an ersatz Luckbringer Base Class riff - I guess I'd like to see these more generic luck abilities tied back to (folded into!) the cards.

* Volatile Infusion - splash damage card bombs, and now this? This is wacky and out o left field for me. If i were an Alchenist alternate or archetype as a previous poster advised then maybe. Here? Not feeling it.

* Still not a fan of shingle runner thematically though I guess it fulfills the "running away from swindled yokels" trope...

* I reall urge you to make some alternate mechanic options using actual cards as a previous poster said - it would make playing this guy SO much fun. For the abilities that are really really tied to the cards, at least give the player the option to draw a card/s to
resolve the mechanic - whether it's "success on a black suit" or "success on face card" or "pull no face cards in three cards" or "beat the GM's pulled card" or "no prime numbers". You could even extend the idea to give extra bonuses if the card meets certain conditions - say "success on black suit, gain x bonus if also a face card".
It's kinda a pity you haven't gone the grit mechanic - regaining luck by risking the deck is extremely thematic here. Perhaps you could still do this even with a luck pool...

Still liking the class a lot, I'll keep an eye on developments... Good to see you're still working on it!!!

theHunterD13

Jul 6, 2013, 03:28 am

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Looking better, still have a few questions though:

Wolf thanks for the feedback it is always appreciated, and I'm glad you still like the class. It is turning out to be very difficult to get the feel for the class right. Now to answer some of your questions:

Splash Damage: The splash damage is there because the magic being forced into the card is unstable and explodes out of the card upon impact.

Spells: For now the variety in spells is to create uniqueness among cardmaster characters. Say you have two cardmasters each one can throw cards, is lucky, etc. but the spells they know makes them different. Its meant to represent the limited magic each cardmaster knows is different.

Harrow Stuff: This was removed to allow a cardmaster to prestige into the Harrower class if they wanted to.

Abilities: (I like the folded joke) I'm not ashamed to admit I took some ideas from the Luckbringer class and attempted to change them to allow the cardmaster some "generic" flexability. Do you think this flexability hurts the class overall?

Volatile Infusion: added based on another comment.

Shingle Runner: As you mentioned, helps get away from bad guys. Personally I like the image of a cardmaster taking everyone's money in a rigged game, getting caught, blowing up the tavern wall with Imbued cards, and escaping by running across the rooftops throwing cards at pursuers below him.

Alternate Mechanics: I agree with you and the previous poster adding a deck mechanic to the class would be fun but to be honest I'm not sure how to apply it. I like the ideas you proposed but I think this may be something I revisit when I have all the basic abilities and roles fleshed out. That way it is easier to add on.

Grit Mechanic: I could retool the class to work like grit, I still have that version saved. Again I like tying it back to a deck of cards, ex. regain a point of luck for drawing a face card or an ace.

Thanks for the support will keep updating this class. I think it has alot of promise and fulfills my desire to play a gambit style character in a tabletop rpg.

jocundthejolly

Jul 6, 2013, 10:02 am

Think you should rewrite this:

"Though not as strong with magic as a wizard or sorcerer...."

As soon as I see that I think,"Why would I want to play a third-rate arcane caster?" Actually, rewrite that whole second paragpraph. Something's wrong if a class writeup says that the class is wimpy or simply inferior.

Goth Guru

Jul 6, 2013, 10:11 am

Wild cards. 3rd level. The card thrown has a wild magic effect based on the card the player draws.
Ace of Spades. Goes off like a fireball made of negative energy.

Okki	Jul 6, 2013, 10:20 am

Another tidbit.. it should be "Imbue"

theHunterD13

Jul 8, 2013, 04:35 am

jocundthejolly wrote:

Think you should rewrite this:

"Though not as strong with magic as a wizard or sorcerer...."

As soon as I see that I think,"Why would I want to play a third-rate arcane caster?" Actually, rewrite that whole second paragpraph. Something's wrong if a class writeup says that the class is wimpy or simply inferior.

Thanks Jolly, I can see where that would be a problem. Will come up with something better.

theHunterD13

Jul 8, 2013, 04:37 am

Goth Guru wrote:

Wild cards. 3rd level. The card thrown has a wild magic effect based on the card the player draws.
Ace of Spades. Goes off like a fireball made of negative energy.

Goth that is brilliant. If I can get some more tidbits like that thrown my way to implement a "deck drawing" mechanic for the player I should be able to come up with some good stuff. Appreciate your help.

theHunterD13

Jul 8, 2013, 04:39 am

Okki wrote:

Another tidbit.. it should be "Imbue"

Thanks Okki, yeah I noticed that mistake is still in there a few times.

Goth Guru

Jul 10, 2013, 09:24 pm

The Ace of Clubs would create a shillelagh made of force that would attack the target for 1 round per level. The cardmaster cannot change the target, so they are free to beat a hasty retreat.

Nem-Z

Jul 10, 2013, 11:07 pm

The main problem I see with this is that it's pretty much locked into a very specific flavor and playstyle. It just isn't robust enough a concept to be called a base class.

For this reason I feel it would be a much better fit as a Bard, Magus, alchemist or even a Rogue archetype, or perhaps as a prestige class meant for those classes.

Oceanshieldwolf

Jul 11, 2013, 05:52 am

Nem-Z wrote:

The main problem I see with this is that it's pretty much locked into a very specific flavor and playstyle. It just isn't robust enough a concept to be called a base class.

For this reason I feel it would be a much better fit as a Bard, Magus, alchemist or even a Rogue archetype, or perhaps as a prestige class meant for those classes.

Have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. While the "Cardmaster as Gambit" might be specific, the Base Class is a wonderful jumping off point for creating archetypes that function very differently - for my purposes, archetypes are exactly the route I take when I want to markedly twist a theme and playstyle.

Consider the following:

Harrowed/Tarotist: As mentioned already - makes use of more iconic "fate" cards - perhaps able to twist fate and warp reality

Cardshaper: Takes on aspects of the four suit cards and (borrowing from old playing cards and more Tarot roots) face cards meanings - from physical Club combatants, Diamond missile types to social Hearts adepts...

Dealer: Changes the "playing table" (combat arena) for all "players" (combatants) - has the benefit of "house rules", "marked cards" etc

There are more, but I must to bed. I'll post more tomorrow...

cartmanbeck RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Jul 11, 2013, 08:06 am

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Nem-Z wrote:
The main problem I see with this is that it's pretty much locked into a very specific flavor and playstyle. It just isn't robust enough a concept to be called a base class.

For this reason I feel it would be a much better fit as a Bard, Magus, alchemist or even a Rogue archetype, or perhaps as a prestige class meant for those classes.
Have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. While the "Cardmaster as Gambit" might be specific, the Base Class is a wonderful jumping off point for creating archetypes that function very differently - for my purposes, archetypes are exactly the route I take when I want to markedly twist a theme and playstyle.
Consider the following:

Harrowed/Tarotist: As mentioned already - makes use of more iconic "fate" cards - perhaps able to twist fate and warp reality

Cardshaper: Takes on aspects of the four suit cards and (borrowing from old playing cards and more Tarot roots) face cards meanings - from physical Club combatants, Diamond missile types to social Hearts adepts...

Dealer: Changes the "playing table" (combat arena) for all "players" (combatants) - has the benefit of "house rules", "marked cards" etc

There are more, but I must to bed. I'll post more tomorrow...

Gah... I JUST saw this thread after spending most of a day working on a card-based Base Class of my own. It's way too similar in style to this, so I'm not going to be able to publish it.

Instead, I'll post it here and see if my ideas will spark any creativity for theHunterD13 to improve his own class.

Hope you guys like it! It's not quite finished, but given this current thread I've decided not to worry about finishing it anyway.

Occult Gambler:

The Occult Gambler (ranged blaster character)
Alternate Base Class for Alchemist?

The Occult Gambler lives his life by the luck of the draw, always taking chances in order to get the most out of life.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Occult Gambler is proficient with simple weapons, the sap, the sword cane, and shuriken. He can cast morphemes while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an Occult Gambler wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (which all morphemes do). A multiclass Occult Gambler still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Alchemist spell progression, plus bonus spells based on Cha.

Gains Arcane Strike as bonus feat at 1st level. (Replaces Throw Anything)

Morphemes (Sp): Morphemes are arcane cards that Occult Gamblers create to cause devastation to their foes. Morphemes are prepared by drawing glyphs on cards to create a deck. Using a morpheme uses a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Using a morpheme is not so different from casting a spell from a scroll. When using the morpheme deck, the top card of the deck is revealed. If it is an enhancer card, another card is revealed immediately. This continues until a morpheme card is revealed. Morphemes will deal damage to an enemy within 60 feet equal to the base damage dice of that morpheme, plus or minus any enhancers, of the damage type shown. The target of the morpheme is chosen by the Occult Gambler after the morpheme card is revealed. Using a morpheme counts as a spell in most ways, and effects of morphemes can be countered or dispelled as normal for arcane spells. Casting a morpheme always requires a somatic componenet, so armor can cause arcane spell failure chance as normal. If the casting of a morpheme fails in this way, the effects are nullified and the morpheme is lost, along with all enhancers revealed in its casting.

When preparing his daily morphemes, the Gambler chooses one of the following damage types for each morpheme he prepares: acid, cold, electricity or fire. A morpheme will deal a number of damage dice of the chosen energy type equal to the Occult Gambler’s level, but the type of damage die and the maximum number of damage die is determined by the morpheme’s level.
-A level 1 morpheme deals damage equal to 1d4 plus your class level.
-A level 2 morpheme deals damage equal to 2d6 plus your class level.
-A level 3 morpheme deals damage equal to 3d8 plus your class level.
-A level 4 morpheme deals damage equal to 4d10 plus your class level.
-A level 5 morpheme deals damage equal to 5d12 plus your class level.
-A level 6 morpheme deals damage equal to 6d20 plus your class level.

The Occult Gambler prepares his morphemes according to the table below, and creates a morpheme deck from them. Enhancers are added to the deck based on the Gambler’s level, and are determined by the table below. If two or more enhancers are drawn that conflict directly (such as flame and freeze, which both modify the elemental damage type of the morpheme), the Gambler may choose which one to apply; the other is shuffled back into the morpheme deck after the morpheme is resolved. After drawing a morpheme, the Gambler chooses a target, and that target takes the effects of the morpheme plus any enhancer cards applied to it. All cards revealed are consumed in the casting of the morpheme, unless otherwise specified. Save DCs for any effects of a morpheme that require saving throws are equal to 10 + ½ the Occult Gambler’s level + his Charisma bonus.

Class Level Enhancer cards added to deck
1 strengthen, weaken
2 strengthen, weaken
4 clone, mirror, shout, pierce
6 explode, arc, leech
8 enlarge, shrink
10 shout, pierce, explode, deconstruct
12 arc, mirror, strengthen, weaken
14 deconstruct, improved pierce
16 mirror, slow
18 force, haste, armor piercing, irresistible
20 irresistible, deadly x2, heroic

Strengthen: The morpheme deals +50% damage, rounded down. If you draw two strengthen cards, the morpheme deals +75% its normal damage, and so on.
Weaken: The morpheme deals -50% damage, rounded down. If you draw two weaken cards, the morpheme deals 25% of its normal damage, and so on.
Clone: Choose a second target for the morpheme. The second target takes half damage from the morpheme, rounded up. Any secondary effects of the morpheme are ignored for the second target.
Mirror: Choose an ally (including yourself). In addition to dealing damage to your target, the morpheme deals half damage to the chosen ally, rounded down. Any secondary effects of the morpheme are ignored for the second target.
Shout: The morpheme deals its normal damage +1d8 sonic damage.
Pierce: The morpheme ignores 5 points of energy resistance of any one type, chosen by the user. If the target is normally immune to the chosen type of energy, they are dealt 5 damage unless it is reduced in some other way.
Explode: The morpheme deals half damage to all creatures within 10 feet of the targeted creature (including allies), and secondary effects apply to all affected creatures.
Arc: The morpheme deals half damage to one other creature per four levels, within 20 feet of the targeted creature. You choose which creatures the morpheme’s effects arc to, and secondary effects apply to all affected creatures. You cannot affect the same creature twice, and you must affect the maximum number of creatures unless there are not enough creatures within 20 feet of the original target, in which case any left-over arcs are wasted.
Leech: The morpheme deals +2d8 negative energy damage, and you heal damage equal to the negative energy damage dealt.
Enlarge: The target of the morpheme is affected as if by an enlarge person spell, but ignoring the target’s type. The target may make a Will save to ignore this secondary effect.
Shrink: The target of the morpheme is affected as if by a reduce person spell, but ignoring the target’s type. The target may make a Will save to ignore this secondary effect.
Deconstruct: Instantly destroy all enhancer cards flipped before this one.
Improved pierce: The morpheme ignores 10 points of energy resistance of any one type, chosen by the user. If the target is normally immune to the chosen type of energy, they are dealt 10 damage unless it is reduced in some other way.
Slow: Targeted creatures are affected by a slow spell as if cast at your level. Targeted creatures may make a Will save to ignore this secondary effect.
Force: The morpheme deals +2d10 force damage.
Haste: Targeted creatures are affected by a haste spell as if cast at your level. Targeted creatures may make a Will save to ignore this secondary effect (though it is harmless).
Armor piercing: Targeted creatures take a -2 penalty to any and all armor and natural armor bonuses they have to their AC. This cannot reduce an armor or natural armor bonus below zero.
Irresistible: Targeted creatures take a -2 penalty to saves against any effects of this morpheme.
Deadly: Targeted creatures are instantly killed unless they make a Fortitude save. If the targets save, multiply damage dealt by 1.5x.
Heroic: Targeted creatures gain a +4 untyped bonus to their Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution for a number of rounds equal to your level. Targeted creatures may make a Will save to ignore this secondary effect (though it is harmless).

Magic Study: The Occult Gambler gets a bonus to Use Magic Device checks equal to his level. However, when using wands or scrolls, the Occult Gambler has a higher chance of a mishap, due to his dangerous style of triggering these devices. When rolling Use Magic Device checks to trigger a wand or scroll, on a roll of a natural 1 or 2, the spell being cast fails and the Gambler takes 1d4 points of sonic damage per spell level of the spell being attempted. He and anyone adjacent to him must make a Fort save (DC 10 + spell level) or is deafened for one round. The magic item cannot be used by the Occult Gambler again for 24 hours.

Deadly Dealer (Su): At 3rd level, the Occult Gambler gains Deadly Dealer as a bonus feat. In addition to the abilities normally given by that feat, the Occult Gambler can decide to use Deadly Dealer to throw one of his morphemes when it is revealed, instead of casting it normally, treating the card as a masterwork weapon and adding damage equal to his level. The morpheme is spent, and any unused enhancer cards already revealed are reshuffled into his deck.

Gambler’s Luck (Ex): At 5th level, the Occult Gambler’s luck begins to turn more and more in his favor. The Occult Gambler gains a number of luck points each morning at dawn, equal to his Charisma bonus. He may use these luck points in a number of ways, as follows:
-The Occult Gambler may spend a luck point to instantly re-draw a card from his morpheme deck, replacing the card he most recently drew. The replaced card is shuffled back into the deck after the current morpheme is spent.
-The Occult Gambler may spend a luck point to re-roll a Use Magic Device check that he failed. If the roll was a natural 1 or 2, it costs two luck points to re-roll. The second roll may not be re-rolled in this way.
-The Occult Gambler may spend a luck point to re-roll a failed saving throw. The second roll cannot be re-rolled in this way.
-The Occult Gambler may spend a luck point to force an enemy to re-roll an attack roll targeting him. The second roll cannot be re-rolled in this way.
An Occult Gambler does not normally regain his luck points during the day (once spent, they are gone), though he may take feats which alter this or allow him to gain more luck points per day.

Wand Enhancement (Su): At 7th level, the Occult Gambler learns to channel a bit of his own luck-driven arcane power into wands that he casts from. When casting from a wand, he calculates the DC for any spell it contains using his own Charisma modifier, instead of the minimum modifier needed to cast a spell of that level.

EDIT: Table omitted because formatting failure and I'm too lazy to put it back in the right format.

Oceanshieldwolf

Jul 11, 2013, 01:31 pm

See!?!? ;) Nice one cartmanbeck!!!

Goth Guru

Jul 11, 2013, 02:37 pm

I thought about a deadly card, and I could not figure how to restrict it to higher levels.

Nem-Z

Jul 11, 2013, 06:50 pm

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

I feel it would be a much better fit as a Bard, Magus, alchemist or even a Rogue archetype, or perhaps as a prestige class meant for those classes.

And why would your examples build off of a single card-related base class rather than as separate card-related archetypes for several different base classes if they do so many different things?

Oceanshieldwolf

Jul 11, 2013, 07:24 pm

So that they can all be related under one umbrella? Why search ten different base classes for ten different but thematically and inspirationally related archetypes when the robust Base Class can handle them all - and also provide a framework upon which to gauge and measure the relative balance of archetypal swaps.

Look, if you really want markedly different BAB, HD and Saves for these concepts, then make different archetypes from different base classes. That could work too. I just think it's unnecessary...

Also, I'd appreciate it if you could edit your post - first you have me incorrectly indicated for your quote, then you don't have me indicated for the bit I did write AND it's mixed in with your reply.

No harm done, I just like things to be clear and correct... ;)

Nem-Z

Jul 11, 2013, 10:53 pm

I would but... time limits, they are a b*++* sometimes.

theHunterD13

Jul 12, 2013, 06:33 am

Wow thanks for all the posts guys it really is inspiring. Was going to take a couple weeks off from this class but coming back and seeing so many posts means I must work on it more!! Please keep the posts coming.

Wolf your archetypes sound amazing I want them all, if you don't mind, when the base class is done.

Beck do you mind if I take ideas from your Occult class that I like and add them in to my own class? Also since we have similar ideas I would love to hear your opinion on the class and suggestions for its improvement.

Goth what can I say sir you are brilliant when it comes to coming up with ways to include an actual deck of cards to this class.

Nem-z I can understand your concerns for the class and wanting to turn it into an archetype but this is something I've always wanted to see in an RPG. I don't have any plans on publishing this class or anything just making it the best it can be (with everyone's help) and then using it in my campaigns and setting. Still appreciate your comments and suggestions.

theHunterD13

Jul 12, 2013, 07:04 am

Question for everyone do you think the BAB of the cardmaster is too low? At 20th level he currently only gets +10/+5, should we bump this up to +15/+10/+5? Also thinking about doing away with the splash damage on Thrown Cards, given the feedback from the messageboards.

Thoughts?

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