Enchantment, Compulsion and mind-affecting spells...as a main concept?


Advice


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I had the idea to create a magic user based on enchantment, compulsion and mind-affecting spells like charm person, etc.
There are some ways to do that, like a Kitsune crossblooded fey/undead sorcerer lotus geisha bard. You get some nice boni and can enchant undead.
But how can this work out in the rest of the game with so many monsters and foes immune to mind-affectin spells?

Any experience or ideas?


It is about the same as a fire blaster specialized caster.

If you specialize too heavily so about all you have is compulsions (or fire blast spells) you will have times you shine and times you are next to useless.

However, if you specialize enough to be good at compulsions (or fire blasts) but have plenty of other choices when those won't work, I think it could be a great concept.


Beware, you can't actually affect mindless undead with your mind-affecting spells as an Undead-bloodline sorcerer. For that, you need the level 2 Secrets of the Grave feature from the Dirge Bard.

Also, you may want to consider instead of Fey or Undead going for Serpentine, which lets you use compulsions on beasts.


I think the best I heard of was the dhampir dirge bard with 1 level of crossblood sorc undead and serpentine.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ah yes i meant serpentine bllodline, not undead, sorry.

I can affect animals, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids as if they were humanoids who understood my language. Fey bloodline gives +2 on compulsion DC´s, Kitsune another +1 on any enchantment spell, Lotus Geisha gains spell focus enchantment at second level and greater spell focus enchantment at fifth level, so at fifth level there is a +5 on all compulsions and +3 on all enchantment spells.

I´m just not sure if pure sorcerer wouldn´t be better.
But as a bard i can still use bardic performance etc to contribute in other ways and perhaps even attack in melee/ranged. Lotus Geisha weapon proficiencies suck heavily though. They shouldn´t have changed that so much. Don´t understand why a lotus geisha can´t use a whip. If you look at the slightly darker side of japanese entertainment culture, they should have automatic weapon focus and whip mastery too^^ and maybe even grapple with a whip or do other funny stuff.

Anyway, is there a possibility to overcome mind-affecting immunities or the like? As normally spell resistance will be an issue sooner or later too, right?

Sczarni

How would it work out? Poorly I think. The concept is cool, don't get me wrong, but you would want to check with your DM to see what you're going to be fighting. For example, if you're running Carrion Crown, only run with this concept if you want to be used as cannon fodder for your party before killing off your character so you can have something useful.

If you're running something like Skull and Shackles, however, you could potentially be one of the most powerful members of the party.

Edit: Yes, spell resistance is eventually an issue but there are ways to deal with that. As for overcoming immunities... no, that's why they're called immunities.

Lantern Lodge

Simply take leadership and use your charms to keep the ranks filled and when you can't affect an enemy then throw your thralls at it. :)


Well, you will gain the +5 on compulsions, but since save DC's are also based on the spell level you will lose some since bard spells are lower level than a primary caster. Plus you lost a level from the sorc dip. You will still come out ahead but not as far ahead as the +5 makes it sound.

Yes, bardic performance and other abilities will get you something else to do when you are up against something immune. make sure you take some off spec spells in you known list.

For resistance, there is spell penetration and greater to help with that caster level check. I think there was also a metamagic feat for when you really need to beat spell resistance. There area also a few magic items that can help with the caster level check. You might consider bouncing since I believe most compulsions have no effect if the save succeeds.

I usually think whip is a poor choice unless the build is centered around it. Since your build is not centered around the whip, not having it really doesn't hurt you much. But if you really want it, there are traits or feats to get it. If it is just the image. Carry and use when you feel like it at a penalty.

But check with the GM. Like Corren said, if the campaign is mostly undead or constructs you could be an anchor (or at least not contributing like you expected).


I play a PFS serpentine bloodline sorcerer and she has broken about 50% of the combats she has been in because of the serpentine bloodline power mentioned above using Charm Person. That and most of the BBEGs are humanoid in PFS. Heighten spell works wonders.

I originally started her as a bard but changed my mind and started over as a sorcerer.

Use command undead and acid spells to cover undead and constructs. I only chose spells that fit a serpentine theme, too (dragon's breath, etc.) You really only *need* one or two enchantment spells and heighten spell to use them at different spell levels. Sub out the rest as you level (i.e. charm monster --> charm person).

Sorcerer is the way to go for an enchanter. Don't dip into anything -- waste of time.

With the latest level and a new item, she just became my fav PC in the campaign. No, not revealing that until I'm at a table and get to use it since the GMs read this board. :)


Yeah, it works well. Either a sorceress or a bard can be an awesome enchanter (go one or the other, not both). Even a wizard can be ok, although the lower charisma hurts you.

You do have to have options for what to do when your enchantment spells fail, but...you're a sorcerer. You always have options so long as you have spells left.

Also, you want to know the best way for a sorcerer enchanter to kill constructs? Have those bandits you charm person'ed back at the start of the adventure attack them. ;)


Actually, for constructs, there are two great Enchantment spells to grab:

Malfunction
Apparent Master


Giving up higher level slots for the rare opportunity to use them on constructs, especially when some of them are immune to spells that allow SR, might not be optimal slot use. But consider walking around with a golem slave for the rest of the event. :-)

Maybe constructs appear more often than I have seen them, but undead seem to be more common.

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