Sorry, but, i have a doubt respect the rule of the "to take 10", the abilities of craftsmanship and the talents of creation object
now, as a rule, both craftsmanship that creation object they have as compensation "if you fail you lose the money and you must start from scratch"
but creation object implicates tests on the order DC 5 + the enchanter's level
what taking 10, they are overcome in automatic the threat making laughable to lose the money.
Then I wonder me; is it correct "to take 10" to create magic objects?
sorry for the bad english
You can Take 10 when crafting items. Remember that Take 10 has nothing to do with failing. It only has to do with being distracted. Since you can only work on magic items when not distracted, you can always Take 10.
That being said, it does seem like a character would never fail however you are assuming that the character always has maximum ranks and only works on items he can create easily. That may not always be the case.
Imagine a wizard with 3 ranks in Spellcraft, Intelligence 16, and Craft Wondrous Item wants a bag of holding. The DC is 19. At level 3, he has a +9. Taking 10 is normally good enough however he probably doesn't have access to the spell secret chest. This pushes the DC to 24. Now Taking 10 won't help him so he needs to roll and hope that he gets a 13. If he rolls 1 through 8, he will create a bag of devouring. If he rolls 9 through 12, he simply fails.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
The Developers have stated it IS their intent that you are able to "take 10" on magic item creation.
- Gauss
ok, however, a longsword +1 does not have spell requirement for example; only a DC of 5+ bonusx3 (enchanter's level must be 3 time the bonus) =8
taking 10? easily crafted without worry
simple longsword? dc 15
masterword longsword? dc 20
go buy a masterwork lonsword and the most idiotic wizard whit five level, 2, 3 grades and a Intelligence of 16 (maybe?) = 3+3+3(class ability) =9
it's strange for me ^^"
as for the items whit spell requirements
if the wizard/sorcerer or any other magic class do not have the spell and do not buy a scroll with the spell, that wizard is simply an abyssal idiot ^^"
What if your character doesn't have maximum ranks in Spellcraft? What if you are using a fighter to make that longsword and you are using Craft (weapon) and you only put 3 ranks in Craft because you simply don't have that many skill points?
Level 5 fighter, 2 ranks in Craft (weapon), Intelligence 12, has a +6. That means he needs a 2 or better. No problem. He decides that he wants to push it though and wants a +1 flaming sword. The DC is now 5 (base) + 10 (CL of flaming) + 5 (can't cast fireball) for a total of 20. Now he's got to roll a 14 to pull it off.
Taking 10 on crafting mundane items is exactly how it should work also. As a master craftsman, should he have to roll? +10 would mean that the character has invested in crafting instead of something else with his skill points. Remember that crafting mundane items is very time consuming and not really something you'll see adventurers do often.
A wizard (that must have high score in Intelligence for casting high spell levels) with only 3 ranks in one ability that halves the price of all magic item? An ability that give him a super-rewarding job and very useful in large spread of gaming actions? Seriously? ^^
In my opinion adventurers have very much rest time from adventure to adventure, time for crafting is no trouble at all.
Wizards can easily spend rest time to craft for himself and for others gaining monstrous amount of gold pieces and powerful magic items without a single chance of fail in the process.
Making spoons, goblets, common swords are considerable routine tasks, how is possible that making Brilliant Energy Vorpal Longsword +1 can be considerable routine task?
It's a broken rule, very unbalancing for me. ^^
If you focus in magic item creation, it's meant to be easy.
So it's fully intentional.
You can take 10 at it too.
The rules are 100% clear here, but of course this is your game, so feel free to houserule it away.
Hope that helped!
Bob_Loblaw wrote: What if your character doesn't have maximum ranks in Spellcraft? What if you are using a fighter to make that longsword and you are using Craft (weapon) and you only put 3 ranks in Craft because you simply don't have that many skill points?
Level 5 fighter, 2 ranks in Craft (weapon), Intelligence 12, has a +6. That means he needs a 2 or better. No problem. He decides that he wants to push it though and wants a +1 flaming sword. The DC is now 5 (base) + 10 (CL of flaming) + 5 (can't cast fireball) for a total of 20. Now he's got to roll a 14 to pull it off.
Taking 10 on crafting mundane items is exactly how it should work also. As a master craftsman, should he have to roll? +10 would mean that the character has invested in crafting instead of something else with his skill points. Remember that crafting mundane items is very time consuming and not really something you'll see adventurers do often.
ok, but in my party are a level 9 fighter with 8 ranks in Craft (weapon), intelligence 12 with the talent Master Craftsman and the talent Craft Magic Arms and Armor
as for your example; the Master Craftsman talent states as requirements "minimum 5 ranks in the ability" and add a +2 bonus to the ability that you chose as a replacement for the prerequisite to select the second talent
aka 5 ranks+1Int+3class ability+2bonus=11 minimum bonus for magic creation of a longsword +1 (DC 8)
that means: that fighter will not fail unless roll 1 with the d20
again; for +1 flaming longsword, a fighter with this talents must have a minimum 6 ranks as the rules states
base DC is 11 in that case +5 for flaming = DC 16
the same Fighter have in that case a minimum of; 6 ranks+1 int+3 class ability+2 bonus fot the talent = 12
failure numbers on d20? 1, 2, 3
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Rolling a 1 isn't an automatic failure for skill checks, either.
You wouldn't expect to see a master woodworker fail to create a chair, so why would you expect to see a master magical craftsman fail to create the simplest magic items available?
In other words: If someone specializes in crafting magic items (as the character in the above post's example), then they should be able to create the simplest magic items as a routine task.
Someone focused on creating Magic Items shouldn't somehow fail 5% of the time.
Taking 10 for crafting is RAW, logical, and fully intended by the Developers.
If you want someone to pound themselves in the face with a hammer 5% of the time whilst crafting, then happy houseruling.
Valfrin wrote: Bob_Loblaw wrote: What if your character doesn't have maximum ranks in Spellcraft? What if you are using a fighter to make that longsword and you are using Craft (weapon) and you only put 3 ranks in Craft because you simply don't have that many skill points?
Level 5 fighter, 2 ranks in Craft (weapon), Intelligence 12, has a +6. That means he needs a 2 or better. No problem. He decides that he wants to push it though and wants a +1 flaming sword. The DC is now 5 (base) + 10 (CL of flaming) + 5 (can't cast fireball) for a total of 20. Now he's got to roll a 14 to pull it off.
Taking 10 on crafting mundane items is exactly how it should work also. As a master craftsman, should he have to roll? +10 would mean that the character has invested in crafting instead of something else with his skill points. Remember that crafting mundane items is very time consuming and not really something you'll see adventurers do often.
ok, but in my party are a level 9 fighter with 8 ranks in Craft (weapon), intelligence 12 with the talent Master Craftsman and the talent Craft Magic Arms and Armor
as for your example; the Master Craftsman talent states as requirements "minimum 5 ranks in the ability" and add a +2 bonus to the ability that you chose as a replacement for the prerequisite to select the second talent
aka 5 ranks+1Int+3class ability+2bonus=11 minimum bonus for magic creation of a longsword +1 (DC 8)
that means: that fighter will not fail unless roll 1 with the d20
again; for +1 flaming longsword, a fighter with this talents must have a minimum 6 ranks as the rules states
base DC is 11 in that case +5 for flaming = DC 16
the same Fighter have in that case a minimum of; 6 ranks+1 int+3 class ability+2 bonus fot the talent = 12
failure numbers on d20? 1, 2, 3 So the fighter in my example would succeed on a -1 or better to make the +1 sword but would need an 11 to make it flaming. That means that Taking 10 is not always an option and that crafting magic items isn't always going to be successful, which was the point I was trying to make. I had forgotten that you need 5 ranks in the Craft skill to take Master Craftsman. It changes my numbers but not my argument.
No need to argue.
The RAW and RAI are all apparent and clear.
I didn't mean "argument" as in a position for a fight. I meant it more as a statement put forth as evidence. My fault for choosing a word with potentially volatile meanings.
I see.
Well, all is clear now.
FinalCroceXIII wrote: A wizard (that must have high score in Intelligence for casting high spell levels) with only 3 ranks in one ability that halves the price of all magic item? An ability that give him a super-rewarding job and very useful in large spread of gaming actions? Seriously? ^^
In my opinion adventurers have very much rest time from adventure to adventure, time for crafting is no trouble at all.
Wizards can easily spend rest time to craft for himself and for others gaining monstrous amount of gold pieces and powerful magic items without a single chance of fail in the process.
Making spoons, goblets, common swords are considerable routine tasks, how is possible that making Brilliant Energy Vorpal Longsword +1 can be considerable routine task?
It's a broken rule, very unbalancing for me. ^^
You are misunderstanding a few things.
1)Unless the only treasure you are giving out is gold, crafting items works out to giving an extra +1 to hits and damage. On avearge GP is about 1/3 the treasure.
2) If the item creator can take to to create and item, then that item is NOT a powerful item for the wizard.
3) Brilliant Energy Vorpal Longsword +1 is a +10 equivalent weapon. With VERY BAD special ability (brilliant energy makes the weapon useless against half to 3/4 of the monsters you'll encounter. It should almost be considered a curse and vorpal only goes off on 20).
So if the wizard wants to spend his free time wasting party resources on something that will make the fighter useless against a good chunk of the monsters out there, I encourage him.
Bob_Loblaw wrote: You can Take 10 when crafting items. Remember that Take 10 has nothing to do with failing. It only has to do with being distracted. Since you can only work on magic items when not distracted, you can always Take 10.
That being said, it does seem like a character would never fail however you are assuming that the character always has maximum ranks and only works on items he can create easily. That may not always be the case.
Imagine a wizard with 3 ranks in Spellcraft, Intelligence 16, and Craft Wondrous Item wants a bag of holding. The DC is 19. At level 3, he has a +9. Taking 10 is normally good enough however he probably doesn't have access to the spell secret chest. This pushes the DC to 24. Now Taking 10 won't help him so he needs to roll and hope that he gets a 13. If he rolls 1 through 8, he will create a bag of devouring. If he rolls 9 through 12, he simply fails.
Why do you say the DC is 19? It's 5 + item CL. This is a 14 DC. Easy beatable at level 1 wizard with one rank of spellcraft. Infact impossible to fail even with 10 int. 1 rank is 14 points, nat 1 is 15.
Hardest item would be about CLVL 20. This is easy to get. All you need is +15. 3 from int, 3 from class skill, that's 6, and now 9 ranks. So a level 9 wizard can take 10 to craft a CLVL 20 item. Just the way it works, and yes it makes no sense to even make people make checks unless it's crazy circumstances. If they take the feat to focus spellcraft then it shaves off 3 levels.
The game is balanced so that people aren't punished for trying to use their chosen feats and that is weighed more heavily then something that only takes skill ranks to achieve, especially considering how easy it is to auto-succeed on a DC 20 check too. (This ignores the like 3 accidentally useless feats of course.)
Also remember that with the introduction of the Master Craftsman feat that the realm of enchanting arms and armour no longer lies completely with spell casters, high intelligence wizards are not the only ones able to make magic swords these days.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
