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I posted this in another thread and afterwards thought I did the original poster a disservice with my derail. So, I post it here (with a few edits) and encourage *you* to learn it, live it, love it. :-)
WARNING: I am not pulling punches...
"because that's what a 7 Int character would do"
[rant]
I absolutely detest this player comment and any player that uses it to justify poor gameplay is, IMO, an absolute douche. Period. Over 30+ years of gaming, I have seen, time and time again, players create characters that are at odds with their companions and/or the majority of NPC's. Personality conflicts, opposing alignments, low-Int PC's routinely screwing the party with bad tactical decisions or jumping to combat and ruining role-playing, low-Cha characters that seem to go out of their way to sabotage any attempts at role-playing, over-zealous Duddly-Do-Rights forcing their morals on the other characters, the list goes on. I love balance in my RPG, and the VAST majority of players I have encountered are the same. If you only enjoy combat and don't like role-playing, then play something else. MMORPG and console games may be more your style. If you hate combat and only enjoy the role-playing, then read a book or play Diplomacy. PFS is a game of balance with player cooperation to overcome challenges at its heart. If you are not embracing that premise, then GO AWAY! Both you and the PFS community will be better for it.It has been said before, but demands repeating, characters are not the problem, players are. *We* are in charge of the character, from creation to the grave. I am not saying you cannot create unique and memorable characters with flaws that can define their personality, but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, well you know the rest. If you create a character who's actions routinely seem to be in conflict with your companions, NPC's, the environment, etc. and said "conflict" is distracting or straight out reducing the fun of the other players at the table, STOP FRIGGIN' BUILDING THOSE CHARACTERS!!!!
[/rant]
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
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I play an int 5 Paladin. She'll help you in whatever way she can, doesn't interfere with others (unless its a heinously wrong thing to do), and doesn't rush into combat. She's fun to play and built to be a team player. Its not hard to do, folks. Play low wis characters as gullible, not stupid.
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Devil's Advocate: The 7 INT (or 5 INT I suppose) character isn't smart and the 7 or 5 CHA character is socially inept. Sometimes (not always) they are going to do things that aren't smart or that rub people the wrong way. Occasionally that will be "jumping into combat and ruining role-playing," or "sabotaging attempts at role-play" or "forcing their morals on the other characters" or whatever badwrongfun you claim they are having. But it should happen sometimes: people do not always agree, even ones who have been assigned to work together; even ones whose LIVES DEPEND on working together.
HOWEVER: even given the above, the PLAYER should still be responsible about how they play their character; do not ALWAYS interrupt role-playing. Do not ALWAYS jump into combat. Do not ALWAYS try to enforce your morals on others. This goes DOUBLY for an organized campaign where you might not have "next week" for the role-playing character to do their thing.
Try to be reasonable as a player of an unreasonable character; I've seen it done, and even seen it done in a way that the rest of the players at the table enjoyed.* Your Big Dumb Fighter (BDF) isn't going to be much fun to play if High DC Sleep Hex Witch just keeps knocking down baddies for coup de gras. At the same time, if your character is all about role-playing, don't insist that you talk to every NPC and try to find a peaceful solution etc.: the big dumb fighter should get to do his thing sometimes too. And that Paladin who thinks everything the chaotic neutral (played CE) guy does is wrong?: make a big deal once, then have your character go "HARUMPH!" loudly for a while. Most people at the table want to spotlight and enjoy their "thing," so share the spotlight, and let everyone do their "thing" a little bit.
Also, if your reason to always jump into combat is "role-playing," then think about this: BDF's don't always jump into combat unprovoked--someone who is well trained in fighting has good idea from his training of how much damage/danger another person can be, and therefore won't immediately turn to violence even if their intelligence doesn't offer them a multitude of other solutions: the BDF is smart enough to know that the spoony bard got sent along with him so that there would be someone to talk out issues from time to time.
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Devil's Advocate: The 7 INT (or 5 INT I suppose) character isn't smart and the 7 or 5 CHA character is socially inept.
Yes but many people trying to role play that lack of smarts or social graces overdo it. In PFS somehow your character made it through years of training to become a pathfinder and honestly a 7 int is just not all that dumb. The low end of human intelligence is a 3, not a 7. You just can't dump a stat that low in point buy. given the 3d6 Bell Curve a 7 would indicate the high end of the lowest ~16.5% of the populace.
About one person in 6 would have an INT of 7 or lower and for the most part they walk around Golarion without getting themselves killed. If you want to play a complete and utter buffoon and can do some without spoiling other people's fun then by all means do so. Using your mental stats or character concept to justify tanking missions on the other hands is lame.
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I think many times its a matter of the player preferring combat to role playing & using the low Int as an excuse to make sure every encounter becomes a hack & slash so they can do what their character is built for. And it only takes one player to escalate an attempt to RP a solution into a combat by simply attacking, while foregoing or ending a combat by RPing takes the cooperation of most if not all of the party for the same reason.
I just had a discussion with a player who has a ranged fighter in our Sunday game & a melee 2-handed greatsword wielder in my Tuesday game, both of which he plays as "it's an NPC, shoot / power attack". His reasoning was that since he has few skill points & therefore no ranks in knowledges & diplomacy attacking is the only way he can contribute - an angle I hadn't really considered. I told him he could still contribute in social encounters by role playing to make up for a lack of ranks & get bonus to his rolls that way.
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I think many times its a matter of the player preferring combat to role playing & using the low Int as an excuse to make sure every encounter becomes a hack & slash so they can do what their character is built for. And it only takes one player to escalate an attempt to RP a solution into a combat by simply attacking, while foregoing or ending a combat by RPing takes the cooperation of most if not all of the party for the same reason.
I just had a discussion with a player who has a ranged fighter in our Sunday game & a melee 2-handed greatsword wielder in my Tuesday game, both of which he plays as "it's an NPC, shoot / power attack". His reasoning was that since he has few skill points & therefore no ranks in knowledges & diplomacy attacking is the only way he can contribute - an angle I hadn't really considered. I told him he could still contribute in social encounters by role playing to make up for a lack of ranks & get bonus to his rolls that way.
Int 5 Paladin, putting Favored Class Bonus into a skill rank. This means 2 ranks per level. Vati *still* roleplays and does so quite well. She can use diplomacy, she can make decent perception checks, and she'll often try to assist on anything she can (except knowledge rolls). I don't really buy that argument ;)
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Int 5 Paladin, putting Favored Class Bonus into a skill rank. This means 2 ranks per level. Vati *still* roleplays and does so quite well. She can use diplomacy, she can make decent perception checks, and she'll often try to assist on anything she can (except knowledge rolls). I don't really buy that argument ;)I think many times its a matter of the player preferring combat to role playing & using the low Int as an excuse to make sure every encounter becomes a hack & slash so they can do what their character is built for. And it only takes one player to escalate an attempt to RP a solution into a combat by simply attacking, while foregoing or ending a combat by RPing takes the cooperation of most if not all of the party for the same reason.
I just had a discussion with a player who has a ranged fighter in our Sunday game & a melee 2-handed greatsword wielder in my Tuesday game, both of which he plays as "it's an NPC, shoot / power attack". His reasoning was that since he has few skill points & therefore no ranks in knowledges & diplomacy attacking is the only way he can contribute - an angle I hadn't really considered. I told him he could still contribute in social encounters by role playing to make up for a lack of ranks & get bonus to his rolls that way.
Less an argument than a mind-set. Online gaming background so kill it to level up is default mode. Just trying to bring the role-play back to role playing games - like you're doing with Vati.
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I play an int 5 Paladin. She'll help you in whatever way she can, doesn't interfere with others (unless its a heinously wrong thing to do), and doesn't rush into combat. She's fun to play and built to be a team player. Its not hard to do, folks. Play low wis characters as gullible, not stupid.
You may not rush into combat, but you sure to rush into traps.. Perhaps some trap finding skills are in order good Paladin. LOL..