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I'm looking to come up with a list of good Necromancy spells to take with my Dirge Bard's Secrets of the Grave feature.
For reference:
"In addition, he may add one necromancy spell from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class to his list of spells known at 2nd level and every four levels thereafter."
Now, the begin with, I'm having trouble figuring out all of my options. The Sorcerer/Wizard list is thankfully separated by school, but the Magus, Summoner, and Witch lists aren't. Are there any Necromancy spells on their lists that aren't on the Sorcerer/Wizard list? Are there any obscure Arcane spell lists on prestige classes to draw from (for example, the Assassin had a 4-level spell list in 3rd)? I feel like there has to be something out there, or else they'd have just said to take the spell from the sorcerer/wizard list.
Additionally, since I only get these spells at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th, and I don't think you can "know" a spell you can't cast, that means I'll be able to grab a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th level spell from this feature. What are my best choices in that context?
It seemed to me like the only real choices for my first pick are Ray of Enfeeblement and Chill Touch. I imagine the Ray is probably better overall, but considering that this is Carrion Crown (lots of undead) and Dirge Bards later get bonuses for fear effects, I went with Chill Touch.
At 6th, it seems like my best option might be Command Undead--but is it really?
And I'm completely lost on later picks. I must admit, I don't know Necromancy spells very well.
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Perhaps the Sahir-Afiyun will help?
Is this PC built? If so, what's the build?
If not:
What books are available?
What races are available?
Well, the main thrust of the thread is for my Dirge Bard (and Sound Striker) in a Carrion Crown game. She's human, level 2 at the moment, and built to be pure support/control. It was my hope that I could build a fun and effective character that never had to make a physical attack--I already blew that by using my whip once, but the general concept still stands (the party has 6 other people that are all melee-focused and two of them have animal companions, so weapon attacks are well covered anyway).
Stats were unfortunately rolled, but mine turned out well:
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 20
We got bonus feats from specific lists for whatever reason, so I have:
Lingering Performance, Flagbearer, Fast Learner, and Skill Focus (Knowledge: Religion)
My immediate future plan is to take Arcane Eldritch Heritage. As far as spells are concerned, I know:
Chill Touch, Grease, Saving Finale, and Silent Image
As I said, when we fought some spiders, I whipped one, but, seeing as how it's Carrion Crown, I expected tons of undead and used the Two-World Magic trait to get Disrupt Undead (better than a Shortbow in my hands against the most common enemy I'll be facing) just to hold me over until level 6 when I'll have Weird Words if I need to attack.
So I guess, the short answer is that I'm a "caster bard."
So, I want Necromancy spells that will be broadly useful in the context of Carrion Crown, and I'm not afraid of spell DCs, like many "fighty bards" are.
Oh, and I looked through the witch list--the Necromancy spells that are either early entry or not on the Sorc/Wiz list that I found are:
Fester (2), Pox Pustules (2), Speak with Dead (3), Death Ward (4), Poison (4), Epidemic (6), Mass Fester (6), Plague Storm (6)
Needless to say, these feel underwhelming. Speak with Dead is cool, but I could probably just UMD a scroll for the few times I'll need it.
Creative Director
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I was toying with playing a dirge bard in the evil campaign that Rob just started... and spectral hand seems to be a VERY strong choice to me. Because that'll let you deliver healing spells at range, which is pretty nice. Especially in a game where the cleric's not gonna have the ability to channel energy to heal folks.
That's interesting--do you guys think that taking Spectral Hand is beneficial enough to justify it vs. just using my familiar (from the Arcane Eldritch Heritage that I plan on taking) to touch at range?
False Life is nice, for sure, but it's not very flashy or fun. Don't get me wrong, I'll take it if there's nothing better as I recognize how useful it is, but I guess I'm just disappointed with Necromancy as a school in general.
Maybe I'm just too old school. I miss the time when healing and resurrection spells were Necromancy. This Conjuration(Healing) nonsense 3rd edition invented is silly to me.
I'm playing a dirge bard as well and just hit 2nd level. When choosing a "Secrets of the Grave" spell, do you have to be high enough level to cast it?
False Life, for example, is a level 2 spell. Do I need to reach 4th level before casting it? Or can I cast it now?
Also, my Dirge Bard is a Dhampire. Since its a necromantic spell can I give myself negative energy hp with it?
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@Apocalypso: Yes, you need to be able to cast the spell, since it is added to spells known, not just to the dirge bard's spell list.
That said, the "best" necromancy spells for a dirge bard include:
1st- chill touch; hideous laughter is a better choice for a bard than ray of enfeeblement or ray of sickening
2nd- brow gasher, false life, pernicious poison (if you use poison), spectral hand, steal voice; command undead is not needed, since Secrets of the Grave lets the dirge bard use standard mind-affecting spells against undead
3rd- healing thief, ray of exhaustion, sands of time, vampiric touch
4th- absorb toxicity, animate dead, enervation, greater false life, poison
5th- greater contagion, magic jar, possess object, suffocation, waves of fatigue
6th- circle of death, create undead, undeath to death, unwilling shield
Very Helpful Info. Thank you.
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Also:
3rd - Marionette Possession
4th - Magic Jar (as Summoners get Magic Jar as a 4th level spell, they don't have to wait for it as a 5th level spell)
6th - Epidemic, Plague Storm
Incidentally, if you DO get Vampiric Touch, I find that it works very nicely with the Reach Spell feat, which allows you to use touch spells at range.
Incidentally, if you DO get Vampiric Touch, I find that it works very nicely with the Reach Spell feat, which allows you to use touch spells at range.
Nice. That would essentially trade a feat instead of using a precious spell slot for spectral hand.
Reach Spell sounds nice, but burning up higher level spell slots to use it doesn't. A lesser metamagic rod of reach spell is cheap though. It costs just 3,000gp, and you should probably be able to convince the other PCs to pitch in a little gold to help you heal them.
Anyhow, your PC sounds a lot like one I'm playing in Kingmaker. Mine also has the Dirge Bard and Soundstriker archetypes and even took Eldritch Heritage to gain a familiar. In game events inspired him to take a few levels as a Paladin of Erastil though.
My PC's focus on melee and mounted combat will probably influence my spell selection a bit. So could the fact that I'm planning to take Craft Wands at 9th level, which is something you could consider if you'd like to use your familiar as a wand jockey (if you can't afford Improved Familiar you might consider Alter Self)
Ray of Enfeeblement vs Chill Touch - RoE seems dull but effective. Empowered via feat or rod this spell could be absolutely devastating with up to -16 Str! Chill Touch could be nice for making undead flee, but a Dirge Bard can make whole groups of undead flee with Fear. A CL10 RoE wand also might be a nice debuff stick for the familiar at just 3750gp if you craft it. Even enemies who make the Fort save will take an average Str penalty of -4 since 1d6+5 averages 8.5
Brow Gasher vs Spectral Hand - Brow Gasher is kind of slow acting, but it might be nice as a wand for my familiar to buff me with. In your case maybe buffing another PC would make sense. Spectral Hand seems nice for healing far away allies, but sending a familiar might be quicker, and lesser rods of reach can probably get the job done too.
Bestow Curse, Enervation, Ray of Exhaustion? - Bestow Curse could be a nice choice since Witches get it as a 3rd instead of 4th level spell. The others are both nice debuffs which don't rely as much on failed saves though.
It occurs to me that Vampiric Touch with Spectral Hand might be a nice tactic for your PC. My reduced caster level and ability to heal myself with Lay on Hands makes it less appealing in my case.