Loose leaf versions of hard copy products - possible?


Paizo General Discussion


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

This is a question about hardcopy publishing in general, and I suspect the answer is the same whether we're talking about magazines, hardback novels, or softcover/hardcover gaming supplements, but since it usually only comes up concerning my gaming supplements, I thought I'd ask it here on the Paizo boards.

Basically I was wondering if it's possible to request a loose leaf unbound version of a product. I'm one of those strange disturbed individuals that likes to keep their bound copy of products in relatively pristine condition on a bookshelf for the occasional flip-through or sniff (yeah yeah I smell my books, so sue me).

However, during an actual gaming session (even online ones, as I use d20Pro VTT for all of my gaming right now) I usually need to crush the paper copy of the module flat against my computer desk to get it to remain open to whatever page I'm using. This gets to be pretty hard on my books and often results in pages coming loose from the binding over time.

I've tried two different solutions to this problem. First, I try to use pdfs whenever possible, but I've found that I experience information overload pretty quick with more than a couple pdfs open at a time. Add into the mix instances of d20Pro, Hero Lab, my GoogleDocs campaign tracker, and multiple pages of d20pfsrd.com, and my computer desktop becomes a nightmare spread across two monitor screens. This tends to slow down game play, which irritates all GMs and gamers.

Second, I've gone the route of printing black and white copies of the necessary products (usually just whatever adventure I'm GMing at the time), three hole punching them myself and placing them in a binder, but this has become prohibitively expensive regardless of whether I use my own printer at home or a professional print/copy shop.

What would be extremely helpful would be loose leaf versions (shrink wrapped possibly?) that were available for purchase from the publisher; in this case Paizo (but I'm gonna start asking Frog God Games about this option too...). Having them already 3 hole punched would be a bonus, but I'm not adverse to doing that part myself.

I realize that offering loose leaf version of your products would entail significant changes to multiple aspects of your business (order placement, shipping, warehouse space, printer contracts, etc.), so I understand if the answer is 'NO WAY JOSE', but I did at least want to get the discussion started. Seeing the pros and cons from a publisher's perspective would be interesting, if nothing else.

DJF

Scarab Sages

If it were possible, I would imagine it to be (due to the lack of demand) at least as expensive as printing out the pdf files.


As Feytharn suggests - purchase the PDF and print to color or b/w laser printer, 3-hole punch it and you've got exactly what you need. Paizo needs to do nothing else to provide you loose leaf printings - you can do it yourself already.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

It would always be possible to lop off the bindings of a normal print product and then hole-punch it and put it in a binder. My dad used to digitize books this way: slice off the spine and then feed the pages into a scanner to be OCRed.


Tamago wrote:
It would always be possible to lop off the bindings of a normal print product and then hole-punch it and put it in a binder. My dad used to digitize books this way: slice off the spine and then feed the pages into a scanner to be OCRed.

That works too, and is less expensive than printing it yourself.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Tamago wrote:
It would always be possible to lop off the bindings of a normal print product and then hole-punch it and put it in a binder. My dad used to digitize books this way: slice off the spine and then feed the pages into a scanner to be OCRed.

Hmm you know I hadn't thought about this one. I like it. I like it a lot. I'd still have to buy 2 copies of the product (one to slice and dice, one to admire on my bookshelf), but it would be doable on a limited basis, such as the adventures I'm GMing.

I'll have to crunch the numbers and see what turns out to be the cheapest solution: black and white two sided copies from a pdf from my home printer (cost = printer ink), cutting the binding off of a second copy (cost = product cost), or having a print shop print up the b&w version on 2 sided sheets (cost = varies from shop to shop) from a pdf.

Thanks for the idea!


Dr. Johnny Fever wrote:
Tamago wrote:
It would always be possible to lop off the bindings of a normal print product and then hole-punch it and put it in a binder. My dad used to digitize books this way: slice off the spine and then feed the pages into a scanner to be OCRed.

Hmm you know I hadn't thought about this one. I like it. I like it a lot. I'd still have to buy 2 copies of the product (one to slice and dice, one to admire on my bookshelf), but it would be doable on a limited basis, such as the adventures I'm GMing.

I'll have to crunch the numbers and see what turns out to be the cheapest solution: black and white two sided copies from a pdf from my home printer (cost = printer ink), cutting the binding off of a second copy (cost = product cost), or having a print shop print up the b&w version on 2 sided sheets (cost = varies from shop to shop) from a pdf.

Thanks for the idea!

While it is true it would require two purchases of the book to accomplish, by the time you print out the CRB on your home printer (including purchasing the additional paper and especially ink that you will probably burn through printing all those pages) you will have probably paid for the second book already. Likewise if you took the PDF down to Kinko's and had them print it out and punch it for you.

Plus this way you get color. :)


I run a digital print studio (hence my forum name), and my price for double-sided b/w laser copies at 288 pages (575 total) is $.13 a page is $37.44 - which is about the same price as the CRB. If you'd rather have color pages, a copy center cannot compete in price with the CRB itself. I'd say buy a second CRB, pop the cover off and cut binded edge off, 3 hole punch it, and you're done.


Tamago wrote:
It would always be possible to lop off the bindings of a normal print product and then hole-punch it and put it in a binder.

while I have not tried this with a Paizo product, I have done this to several of my "Wargame" hardbacks. I took them to a local shop and had them cut the back and comb bind them. This then allowed them to sit open flat on the table. I also did this with several of my soft bound books as well.

Contributor

gamer-printer wrote:
I run a digital print studio (hence my forum name), and my price for double-sided b/w laser copies at 288 pages (575 total) is $.13 a page is $37.44 - which is about the same price as the CRB. If you'd rather have color pages, a copy center cannot compete in price with the CRB itself. I'd say buy a second CRB, pop the cover off and cut binded edge off, 3 hole punch it, and you're done.

This would be my recommendation as well—a well-stocked print shop will have a super-awesome paper drill to punch through all those pages too (or just get it coil bound as mentioned above).

Contributor

Liz Courts wrote:
gamer-printer wrote:
I run a digital print studio (hence my forum name), and my price for double-sided b/w laser copies at 288 pages (575 total) is $.13 a page is $37.44 - which is about the same price as the CRB. If you'd rather have color pages, a copy center cannot compete in price with the CRB itself. I'd say buy a second CRB, pop the cover off and cut binded edge off, 3 hole punch it, and you're done.
This would be my recommendation as well—a well-stocked print shop will have a super-awesome paper drill to punch through all those pages too (or just get it coil bound as mentioned above).

I'd recommend coil binding as well as laminating a few high-reference pages you always have open, such as the spell list and the basic equipment lists.

Sovereign Court

I'd totally be behind binder printings honestly, just since someone brought it up.

Silver Crusade

I think the coil bound option is pretty cool. Laminating high referenced pages is also a great idea. lol, spending even more money now lols

Silver Crusade

I'd only do this or want this for a few books, say the CRB, APG, and UE etc. Books bound like this do not look good on the bookshelf, rather, they are more of a utilitarian option.

For books on the shelf, I'd keep them as is. They are beautiful.


Belnor wrote:

I'd only do this or want this for a few books, say the CRB, APG, and UE etc. Books bound like this do not look good on the bookshelf, rather, they are more of a utilitarian option.

For books on the shelf, I'd keep them as is. They are beautiful.

Yes, I agree. When I do this I know it is my "use at the table" copy. I often buy a copy to also keep on my shelf. The other thing I have done over time is the coil bound copy is the one I take to conventions or game store games etc.

Shadow Lodge

One note: If you go to all the trouble of laminating and coil binding, etc; it may end up being more expensive than just having a shelf copy and a play copy.


Kthulhu wrote:
One note: If you go to all the trouble of laminating and coil binding, etc; it may end up being more expensive than just having a shelf copy and a play copy.

To be honest, for me it was less about cost and more about the fact my table copy could lie flat open to the page I wanted it to. No spine to force it closed etc.

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