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I'm trying to develop a Curse of the Crimson Throne character. Basically the concept is an Oracle/Paladin and potentially Divine Scion, with the Unhappy Childhood trait. What I'm having trouble with is determining their deity of choice so that it fits best with the literary and narrative themes of the campaign.
Initially I was planning on going with Iomedae, LG goddess of justice, honor and rulership because she's basically THE go-to god for paladins in Pathfinder, and the campaign features a weapon she personally forged. But I'm concerned that might be too obvious, plus Iomedae's faith is a minority where the campaign takes place and she's more about battle than healing.
I also considered Ragathiel, the LG Empyreal Lord (an angel that's basically a demigod) of chivalry, duty and vengeance. He's actually the rebellious son of the Archdevil Dispater and a fire elemental princess. This still allows for knightliness as well as having a greater connection to angels. However, worship of the Empyreal Lords is quite rare compared to the 20 main gods. I'd basically have to have the character travel to Magnimar, really the only place where the Empyreal Lords are commonly worshiped, and then come back to Korvosa, which kind of hurts the connection to the city and its plight. Plus the connection to Serithtial is lost.
Then I looked at the deities that ARE featured prominently in the campaign and found that three of them support paladins: Abadar, LN god of civilization, trade and law, Sarenrae, NG goddess of the sun, healing and honesty, and Shelyn, NG goddess of love and art.
Each has their own costs and benefits. Abadar is the most popular deity in the city the campaign takes place in by far, so it's easy for the character to be picked up by the church or something. But Abadar's not really a healing kinda guy, and his paladins largely focus on enforcing the law and punishing criminals, something the campaign only devotes a little time to (Kingmaker or maybe Rise of the Runelords is where a Paladin of Abadar can really shine in my opinion).
Sarenrae seems a shoe-in, as she's a former Empyreal Lord that got promoted, she has healing right in her portfolio, she's one of the recommended deities for Life oracles, and she's popular with the common folk. However, again, the connection with Serithtial is lost, and Sarenrae has a different flavor than I'm really interested in. To put it offensively, her followers dress and fight like Hollywood Arabians. I'm going more for a "Knight of the Round Table" kinda look that curved swords aren't exactly conducive to.
Shelyn has some connection to the story in that one of the evil gods our characters oppose is her twisted brother Zon-Kuthon. In fact, the sword I'm obsessed with is a Zon-Kuthon bane sword (it's a bane weapon to any creature or being that is a pawn or servant of the Midnight Lord). Plus, Shelyn's paladins are nice and chivalrous. Shelyn's not all that popular, though, so there's some obscurity there, and there's the fact that Shelyn is more a lover than a fighter, and while I'm about healing people, I'm also about smiting.
Am I overthinking this? Any opinions?
You're overthinking. I've got a Cleric of Torag in my game, and he basically runs the only church to his god in the city. You don't need to worry about popularity, just go ahead and go with Iomedae for the maximum "connection to the story" and just say that you're personally devoted despite the major presence in the city.
Serithiel shapechanges into whatever sword you wield best, so don't worry about not having the Iomedae connection. As long as you're dedicated to fighting the villain, Serithiel will let you wield her and will become what blade suits you best.
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You're overthinking. I've got a Cleric of Torag in my game, and he basically runs the only church to his god in the city. You don't need to worry about popularity, just go ahead and go with Iomedae for the maximum "connection to the story" and just say that you're personally devoted despite the major presence in the city.
** spoiler omitted **
It's not the shape of the blade that concerns me. It's the story connection. What is Serithtial to someone not of Iomedae's faith? Just a particularly powerful sword, rather than a SACRED ARTIFACT FORGED BY THE GODDESS' OWN HAND! I want to provide the character with the most solid writing possible.
So... you're playing in Curse of the Crimson Throne, but you're trying to develop a character based off player knowledge that will come about in the 5th book?
Really?
Well, if your GM doesn't care, that's his own problem.
Keep in mind, that Iomedae does have a presence in the city, just not as large as Abadar, or Pharasma, does. The Pantheon of Many is located in South Shore of Korvosa, and is dedicated to the more popular gods of Avistan. So, you could easily be a worshiper of any of the major gods in Korvosa, you just won't have a dedicated temple like Abadar or Pharasma will.
Also, remember just who it is that worships Iomedae. You'll probably find a large following in the Korvosan Guard, and the Sable Company. They may not be devote, but they probably offer her tribute fairly often in the form of prayers, blessings in her name, donations and tithes.
If you want to immerse yourself further, also keep in mind that Golarion is a world where many gods are not just worshiped, they're known to actually exist. Unlike our world where a large part of the population worships only 1 god, there are many in Golarion. Think more of things like the Greek or Roman pantheons.
A city might be devoted to one god in some way (Athens and Athena for example), but they still actively worship the other Gods. Zeus was offered tribute because he was King of the Gods, but Gods like Poseidon played a much more active role in the average Greek life, being as he commanded the Seas and the Greeks were a seafaring people.
You would see things like a Korvosan Guard praying to Iomedae to watch over him during his day at work, to guide his blade in battle (Gorum works here too). He might offer a small prayer to Abadar for insight in decisions regarding the law, and when he gets home, he may bless his food in the name of Erastil.
Just because a city doesn't have a major temple devoted to a certain God, doesn't mean he/she isn't worshiped in that city.
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It's a habit I have. I buy the Adventure Path books for the articles in the back and read the adventures so I can design characters that fit with the Adventure Path's narrative and themes, and I had my heart set on an Oracle of Life/Paladin that uses Life Link to take the hits of his party members for them while using Lay on Hands and Channeling to keep himself alive. Plus...I kind of fell in love with Serithtial after reading the book and basically I wanted to make a character mostly because of that sword. I have the same problem with Briar in Kingmaker. I'm just a really big sucker for knightly figures with incredibly awesome swords. I'm a King Arthur fanboy, don't judge me!
Does your GM know that you intend to use player knowledge to build a character in the game? It may be a habit you have, but a lot of GMs I know, myself included, would never allow you at a table for doing this.
I don't mind if a character has some knoweldge due to various reasons, as long as he doesn't use that knowledge, but you admitted the fact that you intend to use the knowledge period. To me, that's bad gaming, and I don't want to have to constantly worry if you were using your player knowledge or not.
I do have to agree with Tels. There's quite a bit the player's shouldn't know about the campaign going in, especially about Serithtial as well as many other events, houses, connections etc.
That being said, I have a Paladin of Iomedae in my group, and he seems connected just fine.
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Does your GM know that you intend to use player knowledge to build a character in the game? It may be a habit you have, but a lot of GMs I know, myself included, would never allow you at a table for doing this.
I don't mind if a character has some knoweldge due to various reasons, as long as he doesn't use that knowledge, but you admitted the fact that you intend to use the knowledge period. To me, that's bad gaming, and I don't want to have to constantly worry if you were using your player knowledge or not.
I never meta-game, if that's what you're asking. The character in question wouldn't know about Serithtial or Scarwall or any of that stuff at all. I just want to make sure my characters have connections to the story the Adventure Path is trying to tell. I wouldn't play an Eagle Knight in this campaign, for example, because the campaign has nothing to do with Andoran, and making the character like that would force me to shove story elements into a campaign where they doesn't fit. Same with an Aldori Swordlord in any campaign except Kingmaker. Same with a Prophet of Kalistrade ANYWHERE, since none of the Adventure Paths seem to take place in or around Druma. Same with playing a paladin in something like Skull and Shackles. Am I making sense? It may be bad gaming, but for me it's less about playing a game and more about telling a story. I've got a BA in English and it makes me obsessive-compulsive about the quality of a campaign's story.
Also, another reason I buy them is because most of the people I play with never want to GM, so I always have to, even though I hate it and would much rather play.
Overthinking it. Yes, you want to make a character that fits the setting (i.e. Korvosa) and better yet have a personal stake in the city and but think you 've taken this too far. I'd go with your first thought or try to find a way to be a paladin of Abadar but in a style you do like.
My two cp, as for the storyline of APs. As they're written by multiple authors theres often some dissonance b/w books. As a GM I try to massage that out or change things to be more unified but its an AP not Moby Dick or Shakespeare. Have fun by playing a character you enjoy.
Not to mention that your GM might decide to change things on the fly, ESPECIALLY if they know you've been skipping ahead and know exactly what's going to happen at any given time. They might decide to replace Serithiel with a completely different object, as the Crown of Fangs can be destroyed by any object fitting the requirement.
Just go with some sort of connection to Korvosa and have fun with it from there. Good GMs will craft the story itself to fit your characters, so you won't have to worry about too much dissonance. Besides, dissonance can be a GOOD thing if you do it right! You could make an Eagle Knight work as a lone agent trying to promote freedom and democracy and the other Chaotic Good ideals in a land that is utterly lawful neutral/evil. Andoran sends agents into other countries, after all.
Short Version: You're overthinking it. The onus is on the players to make characters who have a tie to the city of Korvosa, but that doesn't really limit you in what kind of character you want and where they ORIGINALLY come from. As long as they consider Korvosa their home and want to fight to protect it, any class or deity will work out fine.
I just really, really want that sword, and I don't want it to look like I made the character specifically for it. :(
The mechanics of your character mean absolutely nothing when it comes to tieing your character to an area. That's what your background and traits are for.
For instance, say you want to be an Oracle/Paladin of Iomedae....
You tried escaping only once, but it didn't work. Gaedren caught you, and as punishment, he sold you into slavery and shipped you off into some distant land. As you grew older under the 'care' of a man even more cruel than Lamm, you started developing odd powers and abilities. You used these new-found powers to aid in your escape, and soon enough, as a young man, you were free for the first time since you were very young.
You were still a young, and innocent, man wondering in the world. Lost in the wilds of the world, you were rescued by a group of clerics worshiping the Goddess Iomedae. You traveled with them for awhile, helping repay the debt you felt for assisting you. In that time, you learned all about the Goddess and her tireless persecution of the Evils of the world. How she defends the weak, and promotes Justice in all ways. These qualities really inspired something deep in your soul, and you soon enough took the first steps as a true servant of The Inheritor.
Now having found your path in the world, you've decided to return to your birthplace to bring Justice to Gaedren Lamm and free any and all others suffering under his 'care'. As you arrive in Korvosa, you reach into your money bag to pay a minor fee for stabling your horse, when you pull out a mysterious card...
Your character in the above background would have all the tie in to Iomedae and Serithtiel that you need, plus a strong tie into Korvosa as someone that wants to help 'clean up' the city, to protect those in a worse conditions than yourself, and to help where help is needed.
If you have an idea for a character you really wish to play, but it would be a little to tie the character into that region of the world, don't see it as being weird, take it as a challenge to create a story that works, a story that can make the character really fit into the campaign, despite his or her odd abilities.
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That's basically what I have as a backstory now, with the slight change of the character following Sarenrae and the Clouded Eyes curse (staring at the sun!).
What I mean is more like this. I love playing the gallant, chivalrous knight with a legendary named sword. King Arthur and Excalibur, Roland and Durandal, Yeruslan Lazarevich and Kladenets. So I want my character to be that kind of a figure. Problem is, most of the magic swords an adventure path tosses your way are just random loot. They're not swords pulled from stones or forged by gods and things like that. Curse of the Crimson Throne and Kingmaker are really the only two I can think of where there's a magic sword with that kind of history tied to the plot. So when I found out about Serithtial I became obsessed with it and wanted to make a character who best fit the "questing knight with a named sword" model and still fit within the context of the Adventure Path. And then I read the rest of the Adventure Path and became obsessed with how such a character may develop and change personality-wise given the events of the campaign. It's less "what's fun" and more "what makes for the best written narrative arc?" The biggest criticism I keep receiving in my writing over and over is "people don't act like that."
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Sounds to me like you want to be the wielder of a famous sword, instead of the wielder that makes a sword famous.
Personally, I'd rather the sword I wield be held up as a legend, an heirloom for future generations. I want stories to be told of the foulest sorts of evil that have fallen to my blade. I want enemies to fear the bite of my steel, the sound of the blade cutting the air, long after I have fallen. When people talk of my blade, I want them to feel emboldened, or terrified.
But I want them to talk about my sword, because I was the one wielding it. The sword itself is powerful, but it's true power is unlocked in those who earn the rights to wield it.
That's the story of the legendary knight I would wish to tell. I don't want my sword to make my character famous, I want my character to make my sword famous.
My suggestion to you, is to make a knight you could be proud of. One who's tales are told for aeons. Make a knight, who's skill at arms is legendary with even the most shoddy of blades, but when he wields his sword Serithtiel... oh how the fiends of the outer planes tremble at your march.
Serithtiel has one legendary story to it. Just one. It was used by Mandravius to defeat Kazavon. If you notice, Mandravius and his story is well remembered by those in place to do so. The sword is less so. Mandravius made Serithtiel famous, Serithtiel was a sword that was passed down in his family, no one had really heard about Serithtiel, until Mandravius used it to slay Kazavon.
Be Mandravius, and make the sword famous.
Sounds to me like you want to be the wielder of a famous sword, instead of the wielder that makes a sword famous.
Personally, I'd rather the sword I wield be held up as a legend, an heirloom for future generations. I want stories to be told of the foulest sorts of evil that have fallen to my blade. I want enemies to fear the bite of my steel, the sound of the blade cutting the air, long after I have fallen. When people talk of my blade, I want them to feel emboldened, or terrified.
But I want them to talk about my sword, because I was the one wielding it. The sword itself is powerful, but it's true power is unlocked in those who earn the rights to wield it.
That's the story of the legendary knight I would wish to tell. I don't want my sword to make my character famous, I want my character to make my sword famous.
My suggestion to you, is to make a knight you could be proud of. One who's tales are told for aeons. Make a knight, who's skill at arms is legendary with even the most shoddy of blades, but when he wields his sword Serithtiel... oh how the fiends of the outer planes tremble at your march.
Serithtiel has one legendary story to it. Just one. It was used by Mandravius to defeat Kazavon. If you notice, Mandravius and his story is well remembered by those in place to do so. The sword is less so. Mandravius made Serithtiel famous, Serithtiel was a sword that was passed down in his family, no one had really heard about Serithtiel, until Mandravius used it to slay Kazavon.
Be Mandravius, and make the sword famous.
Excellent Post
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Sounds to me like you want to be the wielder of a famous sword, instead of the wielder that makes a sword famous.
Personally, I'd rather the sword I wield be held up as a legend, an heirloom for future generations. I want stories to be told of the foulest sorts of evil that have fallen to my blade. I want enemies to fear the bite of my steel, the sound of the blade cutting the air, long after I have fallen. When people talk of my blade, I want them to feel emboldened, or terrified.
But I want them to talk about my sword, because I was the one wielding it. The sword itself is powerful, but it's true power is unlocked in those who earn the rights to wield it.
That's the story of the legendary knight I would wish to tell. I don't want my sword to make my character famous, I want my character to make my sword famous.
My suggestion to you, is to make a knight you could be proud of. One who's tales are told for aeons. Make a knight, who's skill at arms is legendary with even the most shoddy of blades, but when he wields his sword Serithtiel... oh how the fiends of the outer planes tremble at your march.
Serithtiel has one legendary story to it. Just one. It was used by Mandravius to defeat Kazavon. If you notice, Mandravius and his story is well remembered by those in place to do so. The sword is less so. Mandravius made Serithtiel famous, Serithtiel was a sword that was passed down in his family, no one had really heard about Serithtiel, until Mandravius used it to slay Kazavon.
Be Mandravius, and make the sword famous.
That's...that's quite inspiring! Thank you!
I'm sorry for whining so much. :(
You're not whining, you're asking for advice. I gave you my advice, and you can do with it what you will. It's your game, and your fun. If you want to be the guy that wields a legendary blade, be that guy. If you want to be the guy that makes a blade legendary, then be that guy. You can't go wrong doing either, as long as you're having fun.
How has your character turned out so far?