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On the discussion thread for the bodywraps of mighty strikes, Axolotl had a wicked good idea. I thought I would share it here.
On the contrary, I repeatedly see suggestions from the boards make it into products....e.g., The Bodywrap. Well, it's true! Don't hit me!
Wait. What?
Couldn't Paizo make the Monk redesign a Paizo RPG Superstar challenge?
That is a truly good idea. Paizo has said they do not have the time to devote to the monk right now, so how about we see what the fans who play (and run games for) monks would like to include and how many different ideas are floating around out there for such a fix.
Now, this suggestion wasn't mine, but I think Axolotl had a good idea with it. So, if you want to bring this idea to developers, just click FAQ. If you don't, then don't. And let us see what happens.
Master Arminas
That might work, but I don't know if 16 or fewer unknowns are really gonna produce a viable redesign in the span of a couple weeks.
One simple change would fix the monk for me:
Make the 5' step action for monks half of their speed and suddenly you're doing full attacks more often than everyone else. It might be a flurry of misses, but you would be the most mobile fighter on the field of battle, which is sort of how I would envision a monk anyway.
One simple change would fix the monk for me:
Make the 5' step action for monks half of their speed and suddenly you're doing full attacks more often than everyone else. It might be a flurry of misses, but you would be the most mobile fighter on the field of battle, which is sort of how I would envision a monk anyway.
It has been suggested, and I like the idea. Another idea to change the +20' bonus to movement a monk gets by spending 1 point of ki to allowing him to spend the point AND move 20' as a swift action.
I could get behind either.
MA
Thanks, Master Arminas. :)
That might work, but I don't know if 16 or fewer unknowns are really gonna produce a viable redesign in the span of a couple weeks.
I don't know either. RPG Superstar builds up to the design of a module, if I understand correctly, not a core class rebuild, but along the way, contestants do have to write an archetype. They have to do that in a few weeks or less, and this wouldn't be harder than making an archetype...right?
An alternative is to solicit official contributors. I also don't know how anyone is chosen to be a contributor and then is chosen to write an archetype (or submits it and is deemed cool?). I was intrigued that one of my fave archetypes was written by a contributor. (Menhir Savant, by Jason Nelson.) I have no idea how common this is.
It would appear that RPG Superstar per se is not the right venue, as that leads to a module...but something parallel to it, that could work. We have so many monk threads, discussions, and excellent suggestions ; it would be great to focus and streamline those thoughts into productive activity with official feedback. The judges for RPG Superstar are appropriately tough; every theorycrafter now gets proper attention and gets to put their money where their mouths are. Players feel the buy-in of contribution; Paizo addresses the issue but doesn't have to divert resources as much. Monk thread proliferation decreases (maybe) Everybody* is happy.
*--well, maybe not everybody. Within a first approximation.
Pardon me moderators, but why was this moved to RPG Superstar? We aren't discussing any active contests after all. Wouldn't this still fit in the Pathfinder General Discussion?
MA
Creative Director
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The point of RPG Superstar is not to crowdsource design. It is to find a new and talented author capable of handling multiple demands—rules design, adventure writing, world building, map making, and more.
We have lots of tools to address the issues facing the monk, but RPG Superstar, in my opinion, is not an appropriate tool for this problem.
The point of RPG Superstar is not to crowdsource design. It is to find a new and talented author capable of handling multiple demands—rules design, adventure writing, world building, map making, and more.
We have lots of tools to address the issues facing the monk, but RPG Superstar, in my opinion, is not an appropriate tool for this problem.
Which is why I wondered why it was even moved to this particular section of the boards.
Axolotl said
It would appear that RPG Superstar per se is not the right venue, as that leads to a module...but something parallel to it, that could work. We have so many monk threads, discussions, and excellent suggestions ; it would be great to focus and streamline those thoughts into productive activity with official feedback. The judges for RPG Superstar are appropriately tough; every theorycrafter now gets proper attention and gets to put their money where their mouths are. Players feel the buy-in of contribution; Paizo addresses the issue but doesn't have to divert resources as much. Monk thread proliferation decreases (maybe) Everybody* is happy.
*--well, maybe not everybody. Within a first approximation.
So we aren't talking about RPG Superstar, per se. But instead, perhaps a contest or competition in a similar vein. By all means, change the title (I know it can be done) and move it back to Pathfinder General Discussion, if you want.
MA
The problems I could see with this is that it would be 16 people designing very similar things, and it might be boring from a spectator's view and also harder to judge their merits against each other all that well.
I wonder if contestants, in an effort to outdo each other or differentiate themselves, might go a little off-the-wall with the designs too.
Anyway, it could totally be a contest! But like you said, not really for RPG Superstar. It would be the sort of thing that people would have to playtest for a few weeks and really see how all the little parts work together to see which is the best.
The point of RPG Superstar is not to crowdsource design. It is to find a new and talented author capable of handling multiple demands—rules design, adventure writing, world building, map making, and more.
We have lots of tools to address the issues facing the monk, but RPG Superstar, in my opinion, is not an appropriate tool for this problem.
James, thank you for your reply. I wasn't entirely aware of what RPG Superstar is for when I made the suggestion, sorry. Would you say that any monk fix is going to come exclusively from within Paizo's staff? If so, we'll go back to theorizing in Suggestions/Homebrew, but if there is an opportunity for forum members, or Contributors, to contribute, we'd love to know. Again--if it's an internal process, we understand. It's just that there have been a LOT of interesting ideas flowing from monk-tinkerers.
The point of RPG Superstar is not to crowdsource design. It is to find a new and talented author capable of handling multiple demands—rules design, adventure writing, world building, map making, and more.
We have lots of tools to address the issues facing the monk, but RPG Superstar, in my opinion, is not an appropriate tool for this problem.
Thank you James.
That said, is there any harm in crowdsourcing the 'monk fix' task? You guys are busy, but if you post up a set of clear limitations on what you will NOT consider, and how the word-count has to be kept down, people can post their ideas in an acceptable format as well as critique them, and rate them in how they resolve the issues the monk has. Maybe even set up a separate discussion forum just for monk issues so we don't bother the those sick of monk threads...
At the end of the day you guys would then have clear data on:
In short, you will have identified the problem and have a proposed set of fixes all ready for your perusal. Much easier than doing all the donkey-work yourselves!
Isn't one of the main sticking points in monk fixes the desire to not have to go back and reformat the entire Core Rulebook? That is to say, making a chance that will not drastically alter the word count/tables?
Yes, it has to stay within the same wordcount.
They said they had the monk on the schedule, but it is not slated until after the mythic rules. I would rather have them do it since I think it is less likely to be a biased build that way, plus I am sure there are things they don't want to change. Personally I would just create an alternate monk. That way the "monk is fine as it is" crowd won't be upset. Well some of them might be upset, but I think less of them will be upset. I also don't think a big revision is need, and it should still work with the archetypes.
They said they had the monk on the schedule, but it is not slated until after the mythic rules. I would rather have them do it since I think it is less likely to be a biased build that way, plus I am sure there are things they don't want to change. Personally I would just create an alternate monk. That way the "monk is fine as it is" crowd won't be upset. Well some of them might be upset, but I think less of them will be upset. I also don't think a big revision is need, and it should still work with the archetypes.
An alternate class is a great idea, Wraith.
MA
Why do you think my monk design is entitled the Mystic Monk and not 'Monk'? :D
I agree, an alternate class is a good idea. Problem is, if it works it will really show up the original and steal not just his role but also his flavour. Mind you, that's pretty much already been done pretty thoroughly...