I never misquoted it. You are misquoting me if you say I did. The phrase I quoted the first time included 'to your location'.
Your entire premise is based on 'your location' as eliminating teleportation as a possibility.
First problem: using your definition of 'your location' nothing in existance can be transported or conjured to your location because you occupy that location. Thus, using that interpretation, the entire paragraph falls flat on its face. Clearly, 'your location' must mean something other than the exact X Y Z co-ordinates you occupy. You could say the general area you are transporting the creature into. Fine, at that point when you are the creature that is being transported the limitation still would apply.
Second Problem: As for teleportation not being applicable there ARE spells that teleport an object or creature to your location. Instant Summons (CRB p301) and Call Construct (UM p210) are examples of an object and a creature.
You and others are using the most limited RAW interpretation to reach your conclusion and that is fine for your games. Do you also play that dead people can act? Because nothing prohibits it. The point here is that if you do not apply a bit of flexibility in your reading of the rules you wind up with some significant idiosyncrasies.
- Gauss
P.S. If I seem a bit harsher in my tone than usual that is because you annoyed me by stating I misquoted the rulebook. I included the entire paragraph the first time. I used a copy/paste and I have the latest version of the CRB (5th printing).
Gauss:
I never misquoted it. You are misquoting me if you say I did. The phrase I quoted the first time included 'to your location'.
P.S. If I seem a bit harsher in my tone than usual that is because you annoyed me by stating I misquoted the rulebook. I included the entire paragraph the first time. I used a copy/paste and I have the latest version of the CRB (5th printing).
I think you are the only person who has actually posted rules quotes in this thread as part of their argument. I am not accusing you of misquoting those rules. I respect that in an argument and I don't think that you don't know what you are talking about with your argument. So, I hope you don't continue to feel attacked in that way.
This sentence:
Firstly we need to post the entire sentence, not just part of it.
Was aimed at one thing you posted, and others have posted similarly. I know you posted the ENTIRE section in your hidden post, but the plain text area of this post did quote only a section of it.
I wanted the entire sentence in my post. I was not accusing you of misquoting.
Also the misquotes in my post above titled "misquoted PRD" are my own, meant to be there as an example of the differences between how you read this rule set and how I read it. NOT an accusation of anyone misquoting it.
Now that this is taken care of I will work on replying to the argument points in your post. I may not finish that until tomorrow, it's getting late.
Then perhaps next time please do not aim it at me directly with @Gauss and then make the statment 'misquoted PRD' afterwards without something between the two to redirect the statement. :)
- Gauss
Shadowlord I also quoted the book. With that aside do you think it is RAI to not be able to break the rule of teleporting into a space that can't support you if you stay in the same general location, but it is ok to break the rule if you teleport somewhere else?
I will also ask. Is you your location only the squares you occupy, or it your location a general area such as the room the fight is taking place in?
Okay, so what I am reading is that TP effects such as DD, Teleport and Plane Shift cannot work because conjuration-transportation must be to a surface capable of supporting it...
What about the Astral plane? Can you plane shift to the astral plane? Which is odd since the astral plane is the medium through which conjuration transportation uses to get from point A to point B.
How about the Plane of Air?
Just to be ornery, what about the Plane of Water (as it is a "sea without floor or surface"). Which further implies you cannot dimension door into water.
If my shadowy dancer or monk uses his/her ability to dimension door down a hallway and onto an illusory floor or pit trap, will the spell fail?
Ottovar, you can ask the same questions about conjuration (summoning) in those environments. The rule is obviously not worded to handle all cases.
- Gauss
Your entire premise is based on 'your location' as eliminating teleportation as a possibility.
First problem: using your definition of 'your location' nothing in existence can be transported or conjured to your location because you occupy that location. Thus, using that interpretation, the entire paragraph falls flat on its face.
Not true. My argument is not at all based on any specific definition of location. I did not give definition to ”your location”. I did was exactly what I said I was going to do, analyze it using “sentence structure, grammar, and terminology” as my basis. From that stand point it doesn’t matter how you define ”your location”.
Second Problem: As for teleportation not being applicable there ARE spells that teleport an object or creature to your location. Instant Summons (CRB p301) and Call Construct (UM p210) are examples of an object and a creature.
Instant Summons is a Conjuration (Summoning) spell, which I did not eliminate in my argument and has nothing to do with what I said about Conjuration (Teleportation) spells. As for the Call Construct, well that is a bigger problem but I can argue that as well.
CALL CONSTRUCT
School conjuration (teleportation); Level cleric 8, sorcerer/wizard 8
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S, M (a sapphire worth 1,000 or 5,000 gp; see text)
Range touch
Target construct touched
Duration permanent until discharged
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
This spell functions as instant summons, except it can only summon a construct you control. For constructs such as golems that are immune to magic, the value of the specially inscribed sapphire must be at least 5,000 gp. For other constructs, a 1,000 gp sapphire suffices.
If the construct is no longer under your control or destroyed, the spell fails, but you know roughly where the construct or its remains are located.
To be fair, yes, the spell description does say Conjuration (teleportation) and that supports this point you have against my argument. However, it is virtually identical, and even refers to, the spell Instant Summons from the CRB, which as I stated above is a Conjuration (Summoning) spell.
Based on the fact that it evolved from a Conjuration (Summoning) spell, refers back to that Conjuration (Summoning) spell in its description, and reads almost identically to that same Conjuration (Summoning) spell, IMO Call Construct should also be a Conjuration (Summoning) spell and its classification as a Conjuration (Teleportation) spell is a mistake on the writer’s part. I will be posting about it in the UM Errata thread after I post this.
You and others are using the most limited RAW interpretation to reach your conclusion and that is fine for your games.
I answer with:
RAW is the most literal reading of the rule.
RAW is the strictest, most literal meaning derived from what is actually written.
The point here is that if you do not apply a bit of flexibility in your reading of the rules you wind up with some significant idiosyncrasies.
That is why we also have RAI; RAW is rigid, RAI is flexible.
Do you also play that dead people can act? Because nothing prohibits it.
No. Again, I am using sentence structure, grammar, and terminology, DEAD is a pretty clear term.
....
With that aside do you think it is RAI to not be able to break the rule of teleporting into a space that can't support you if you stay in the same general location, but it is ok to break the rule if you teleport somewhere else?
I will also ask. Is you your location only the squares you occupy, or it your location a general area such as the room the fight is taking place in?
This was addressed in my reply to Gauss, I am not basing my argument on the definition of your location. I base my argument on a strict reading of the language and terminology used. You are the one who said, “RAW is the most literal reading of the rules.” My argument is literal and based on the actual written terminology, sentence structure. Your argument is based on defining what the designers meant when they said “location.” To me that sounds more like RAI.
The location still matters for the purpose of the spell, since it determines how the spell works.
As an example if I am in a castle, and I teleport from room A to room B has my location changed because I changed rooms or has it not changed because I am still in the castle?
Even using RAW we must know the definition of all the words. Personally I think the intent was to allow bring a creature or object into any space that can not support it, but since I am not in your group I can't really enforce that. I say that because saying you are in location A instead of location B should not allow you to break/bypass the rules in this case
All I can do without a concrete definition of "your location" is ask you how your group does it and go from there.
So I ask, in your group what counts as your location?
Shadowlord:
I incorrectly included Instant Summons, my bad. Still, Call Construct is a teleportation spell that summons a creature to your location. Yes, it might be incorrect but oh well.
So lets focus on the definition of 'your location'.
Is your location the X, Y, Z co-ordinates of your person? If it is then no summoning spell can work. (Note, I am not advocating that it is.)
Is your location the 'general vicinity' of your person? In that case Summon spells and short range teleportation spells such as Dimension Door both qualify if they are within your vicinity. That also means the restriction kicks in. If that restriction kicks in on spells that teleport you to a location that falls under the definition of your previous 'your location' then the rule still applies.
Gauss wrote:
James Jacobs:The following paragraph is on CRB p209 under Conjuration and before any subschool of Conjuration:
CRB p209 Conjuration wrote:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
Question 1) Does this apply to Teleportation magic (example, if I teleport a construct to my location can I place it floating in mid-air).Question 2) Does this apply to Teleportation magic if I am teleporting a group of people TO a location (example, if I teleport a group of people must I teleport them to a location where they are floating in mid-air)
Question 3) Does this apply to Teleportation magic where I am the sole recipient (example, can I teleport myself into mid-air).
Certain persons are stating that this paragraph does not apply to Teleportation magic. They are also stating that this does not apply to the caster of the spell because of the phrase 'your location'.
My apologies for bringing yet another rule debate in here but you are our only resource for the intent of the rules.
- Gauss
James Jacobs Response:
1) It absolutely and almost specifically applies to teleportation magic. You can't use teleport as a sneaky trick by teleporting someone a mile into the air, or just over an open pit. A flying creature can be summoned or teleported into air, I suppose, as could an air walking creature.2) Yes.
3) Yes.
If that paragraph didn't apply to teleportation magic, we would have either said, "This does not apply to teleportation magic" or we would have changed teleportation magic to a different school.
Tels wrote:
I'm a little confused here. The Conjuration rules specify that you can't appear in mid-air (i.e. you must appear on a solid surface) while all of the three questions were asking if someone could appear in mid-air.Are you saying I can teleport straight up into the sky, or that I can't teleport straight up into the sky? I'm not too worried about teleporting enemies, or enemies teleporting me, as teleport requires a willing creature, but it seems odd that you can't do something like... teleport above an enemy fortress that prevents teleportation, only for the party to fall in from above, and use Feather Fall to come in like Navy Seals or something.
James Jacobs Response:
You must appear on a surface capable of supporting you.Air can support air walking or flying creatures. It cannot support other creatures, so you cannot summon or teleport them into thin air.
You cannot teleport straight up into the sky, unless you can fly or stand on air.
You cannot do the "teleport above the fortress and then feather fall down to it." You CAN fly a dragon over the top and jump off of it to float down into the fortress.
Note: I added the bolded JJ response tags.
Now, I know you or someone else is going to say: 'But JJ is not the rules guy'. However, he did help develop Pathfinder. What is more, the text we are all arguing about has not changed since 3.0 and he has worked for D&D/PF since 1988 in some fashion (He co-authored DMG II as one example). I think he should know the intent of at least the Core Rulebook.
Now, with that said this (like many D&D/PF rules) could be written better to prevent this sort of legalistic rules lawyering. Fine. I conceed that 'your location' gives you a legalistic loophole. In any case, you asked for some form of developer input, now you have it.
- Gauss
The location still matters for the purpose of the spell, since it determines how the spell works.
Actually, no, the specific meaning doesn’t matter at all. Every critical piece of information I need to know about casting DD is right here:
DIMENSION DOOR
School conjuration (teleportation); Level bard 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Target you and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none and Will negates (object); Spell Resistance no and yes (object)
You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you.
If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.
If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.
As an example if I am in a castle, and I teleport from room A to room B has my location changed because I changed rooms or has it not changed because I am still in the castle?
I am sure you DON’T need to know that to execute the DD spell in that situation. All you need to know to go from one room to another with DD is what is in the spell description.
Even using RAW we must know the definition of all the words.
But if there is no specific definition put forth by the PF staff then you use dictionary definitions and the English language to figure it out.
Personally I think the intent was to allow bring a creature or object into any space that can not support it, but since I am not in your group I can't really enforce that.
I think you are missing some words in here.
I say that because saying you are in location A instead of location B should not allow you to break/bypass the rules in this case
My argument is that the terminology used excludes teleportation and the caster. It is based on a strict grammatical reading of the terminology used by the designers. If the designers had defined “location” in some way then I might agree with your point, but since they didn’t my argument stands.
All I can do without a concrete definition of "your location" is ask you how your group does it and go from there.
So I ask, in your group what counts as your location?
It’s never come up. It generally doesn’t matter. Personally I don’t think it matters in my argument as it is based on terminology and plain English.
Shadowlord:
Are you also stating that all you need to know on a polymorph spell is included in the spell description? If you are then you are missing out on a great number of rules regarding polymorph spells. In the same vein, in order to use a teleportation spell such as Dimension Door you must reference both the spell AND the rules covering Conjuration magic. This is one of those rules.
This section we are debating covers Conjuration magic. It NEVER states which subschools of Conjuration magic the section applies to or does not apply to. It is only your statement that it does not since there is nothing other than your line of logic that indicates it is.
Put another way: there is NO statement in the the paragraph in question excludes teleportation. You are drawing a logic tree to state it indicates this when it does not explicitly state this.
- Gauss
Actually it(the location definition) does matter, and you can't ignore a rule that pertains to an entire school without providing text that says it can ignore that rule. Either you have not provided the text or I missed it.
RAW you must do exactly as the rules say. Within RAW is the word "location". Now I am not saying the word location applies to the healing spells, but it would apply to the teleportation spells.
School conjuration teleportation
Now you can deny it all you want, but you will need some form of logic if you want to pretend the word "location" does not matter.
I agree that the dictionary term takes precedence if it is not a game term. However even in the dictionary "location" is variable. In short without a dev saying "this is what we mean" there is no way to determine RAW within 100% accuracy, and this is not the only situation where RAW is not clear. Now since the devs have not answered, and the dictionary is not going to help all we can do for you is go by what your group would do.
RAW=you can't just ignore words because they are not clear.
In short:I can't get you a RAW answering by ignoring words because at that point it is not RAW.
Good point Tinalles. I know about the rules about arriving in a solid object. I guess DD could be viewed the same way, but I still think it is limited.
As an example "You always arrive at exactly the spot desired" means you can go anywhere in the most literal reading of the spell. That means you can go outside of the spell's range. By the general rules you can not do that.
PS:I am not really advocating this, but just saying that we must decide carefully when to take a rule literally, and when not to.
Tinalles:
D-Door is actually stating what happens when you accidentally arrive in a solid object. That is not a violation of Conjuration school rules, it is a reinforcement of them.
Conjuration spells cannot cause an object or person to arrive or be created in another object or person. Dimension door creates a situation where that could happen and thus must also create the remedy. The remedy is that you are shunted or the spell fails. This reinforces the Conjuration general rule.
Dimension Door does not specifically state you can teleport mid-air. Thus, there is no specific to trump general in this case.
- Gauss
Now, I know you or someone else is going to say: 'But JJ is not the rules guy'. However, he did help develop Pathfinder. What is more, the text we are all arguing about has not changed since 3.0 and he has worked for D&D/PF since 1988 in some fashion (He co-authored DMG II as one example). I think he should know the intent of at least the Core Rulebook.
I won't be saying that. I am fine with this as official input. It may not be a PF rules guy but his word is fine with me unless/until any current PF designer says differently.
Now, with that said this (like many D&D/PF rules) could be written better to prevent this sort of legalistic rules lawyering. Fine. I conceed that 'your location' gives you a legalistic loophole. In any case, you asked for some form of developer input, now you have it.
It happens.
.....
Would you please post a link to those two posts? I would like to read the threads and favorite those particular posts if I can
Shadowlord:
Are you also stating that all you need to know on a polymorph spell is included in the spell description? If you are then you are missing out on a great number of rules regarding polymorph spells.
I wasn't saying that. I was just reiterating that my argument wasn't based on the specific definition of that one word. My argument would actually not have changed one bit regardless of the definition of that one word, because my argument was based on sentence structure and terminology.
Moot point, because there is something close enough to official input to satisfy me and that gives me a far more definitive answer than arguing over the specific definition of a word that is incredibly general in nature.
So, by the rules, when I cast a teleport spell to teleport myself away from my location I am teleporting to my location?
Brilliant.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wow, I really wish I'd known about that thread...
Thanks.
I still would like to know if RAI would allow Dimensional Dervish to trump the general rules in this case. It seems like as long as you begin and end in legal spaces it should be allowed.
Well, according to JJ it is doable... with a fly spell.
I agree that fly would make it work. The Dervish feat does not allow you to bypass the conjuration rules. The only difference is that instead of being an instantaneous affect, it allows you to use the spell over the course of your turn.
The conjuration rules do not cover teleporting a creature away from your location, so they're irrelevant.
The conjuration rules do not cover teleporting a creature away from your location, so they're irrelevant.
The RAI is to make sure you tranport something into an area that can support it. That is what James was saying. The rules are not written in legalese so it is not hard to abuse certain rules if you try to go with the letter of the rule vs the spirit of the rule.
RAW the paralyzed condition says you can't take actions.
RAW the dead condition does not have that restriction. :)
IMO RAI was to make sure you didn't teleport an enemy up high in the air to force him to fall or conjure up an elephant above an enemy so it would fall on him. Preventing a mage from teleporting himself straight up to get away from an attacker, or his fighter ally so he's positioned next to a flying enemy would actually be the abuse of the existing rule.
Nope. Where ever you end up should be able to support you.
Dropping an elephant on someone is one idea it stops, but not the only one, otherwise it would only apply to conjuration and summoning. Being as how the rule is in the general area it would apply to all spells within that school that transport creatures.
It specifically says "by a conjuration spell". It makes not exceptions.
Full text-->"A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
Yes, and that doesn't change my opinion that the intent of the rule is to prevent actions such as what I outlined, that it can be read to prevent a wizard or a willing ally from teleporting straight up because that's not solid ground is the legalese loophole that is being exploited.
That the RAW specifically calls out "to your location" is a fortunate loophole that allows the teleportation spells to be used as they should be.
Or it is an unfortunate loophole. Lets look at it another way using your interpretation:
You convince idiot A that teleporting with you is a good idea. Idiot A is now a willing subject. You teleport 5miles up and drop him.
I consider that an abuse of the loophole.
Summary: If you want to teleport onto a surface that does not support you, use secondary magic so that it supports you. Fly supports you just fine if you are trying to teleport high up.
- Gauss
The problem is that "location" is not defined so you can't really use that.
Or it is an unfortunate loophole. Lets look at it another way using your interpretation:
You convince idiot A that teleporting with you is a good idea. Idiot A is now a willing subject. You teleport 5miles up and drop him.
I consider that an abuse of the loophole.
That's not a loophole, that's roleplaying.
The problem is that "location" is not defined so you can't really use that.
Location has a definition, as it doesn't have a rules definition we need to default to the dictionary.
We are talking rules here not roleplaying. Note: I am not saying as a GM I would or would not enforce this clause. That is not relevant to the discussion.
The rule is intended to stop things like dropping elephants etc. My example is related.
Which definintion are you using? I found many.
1 a : a position or site occupied or available for occupancy or marked by some distinguishing feature : situationb (1) : a tract of land designated for a purpose (2) Australian : farm, station
c : a place outside a motion-picture studio where a picture or part of it is filmed —usually used in the phrase on location
2: the act or process of locating
3: the placement of baseball pitches in a particular area of the strike zone; also : the ability to control the placement of pitches
- Gauss
Or it is an unfortunate loophole. Lets look at it another way using your interpretation:
You convince idiot A that teleporting with you is a good idea. Idiot A is now a willing subject. You teleport 5miles up and drop him.
I consider that an abuse of the loophole.
That's not a loophole, that's roleplaying.
The problem is that "location" is not defined so you can't really use that.Location has a definition, as it doesn't have a rules definition we need to default to the dictionary.
I already covered that. :)
So tell me if someone is in a castle and they DD from room A to room B does your idea work because they are in a different room, or does it fail because they are still in the castle?
1. c. obviously, I assume this is all taking place on a movie set.
You are the one that stated you are using the definition. So I am curious, which definition?
- Gauss
He also did not answer my castle question.
Don't try to disappear Mr.Ninja. :)
Took a pizza/tv break to watch It's Always Sunny for last night.
I'm using the first definition, sorry, I assumed that would be obvious.
In game terms my location is the spot I currently occupy, rules wise, as far as I'm aware your location is your character's space. If we assume a human wizard, it's the 5 foot square he is in.
As to your question, I think I'm missing something. But teleporting from Room A to Room B would work, even if you happen to guess wrong on the distance and teleport yourself over a pit of infinite doom that is in the middle of room B or into the same space as the invisible ninja that is waiting on the other side of the door.
Just to be clear the laws of magic don't affect you if you leave the room, but if you teleport within the room you are subject to the spell?
This is important because your "location" should have the same definition at all times.
Now lets go back or your "different room equals new location" example:
Let says I am in room A, but the door is open into room B. Since I am not bringing the creauture into my location if I cast a summon spell into room B can I now drop an elephant on someone's head? If not can you explain why? If so then why some engineer's idea of where a room should end define how magic work?
------------------------
Now you have also said that your location is only the square you occupy. If that is the case then why can't a summon an elephant onto someone head. After all it is not at my location since it is not in my character's space?
The bolded area is the most important. :)
I have no idea what you just said.
Oh I get it now. I am only saying that the spell does not account for you to be able to put yourself or anyone else in a place where they can't be supported. Mr.Ninja says if he teleports away from his location he can bypass the rule.
Now if this is true then we must be able to define when someone is moving away from their location, and what he thinks was meant by location. That will determine how the spell can be used.
So yeah it does matter, if the basis of his claim revolving around "away from his location".
edit:spelling error
WWWW: The point is, that Ninja in the Rye just stated his 5' location is the location used when the phrase 'your location' occurs in the rule. If that is the case then it is an utterly meaningless sentance.
Let us do some substitution:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space.
Now substitute in '5 foot square' for 'location':
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your 5 foot square by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space.
By the reading of that substitution you can summon any creature anywhere you want as long as it is not your '5 foot square'. You can then summon an elephant in mid air.
The point here is that some people have been stating that 'your location' is the important issue here without definining that term. Now one of those people have used a definition which completely nullifies the paragraph's effect.
A more liberal definition of your location is that 'your location' is your general vicinity. The moment you use that definition you are also subject to local teleportation effects such as Dimension Door that teleport you from one location near 'your location' to another location near 'your location'.
Now, if that is the case, why would that only apply when teleporting to a spot close to yourself? Why would it not apply to any location you teleport to?
As JJ has said, it does apply.
Edit: For a logic train here is mine:
Local vicinity = your location ->
If you teleport to a location within your local vicinity you must follow the rule laid out on CRB p209. ->
If you must follow that rule for local vicinity teleports why would the rule suddenly be unable to follow it for long range teleports?
- Gauss
While this is also a strong consideration I would not be starting off with any momentum. The actual attacking portions of the turn will be the only time I am exposed to gravity and can begin falling. Each attack would last only a fraction of a second. I think in the worst case scenario I would be exposed to gravity for a total of 3 maybe 4 seconds before teleporting back to the ground. I am not sure exactly how the build up would go due to gravity only having intermittent effect on you but if we just say it stacks to a total 3 seconds of falling that is quite a momentum you could build up. However, falling damage is also calculated based completely on how many feet you fell, which would be not many due to the teleporting around so...
The rule you quoted has a basis on the rule above it: "you can't cast a spell while falling unless the fall is greater than 500 feet." Which means, if you reactively cast a teleportation spell when you fall, you are still going to hit the ground and roll 20d6 of damage due to the fact that you fell at least 500 feet if you were able to complete the spell. But how does it work if you start the spell on the ground with no momentum?
Either way you could mitigate this problem with a Ring of Feather Fall or a caster who readies an action to cast Feather Fall on you after your first teleportation.
In 3 seconds you would fall 44 meters assuming earth like gravity.
d=1/2gt^2
D = distance
G = 9.8 (earth like gravity)
T = Time
44 meters is about 132 feet so 13D6 Damage. Make sure you get that right featherfall.
JJ is not the official rule guy, but he is very knowledgeable, and he is right a lot more than he is wrong.
Now as for this hypothetical situation we must define what is our location, so by order of elimination everything else is not our location, and practical application is the point of the rules, I would think.
WWWW, when I first posted (near the top of page 1) what I thought was a pretty clear rules quote indicating that you cannot teleport to a place in which you are not supported I did not expect that people would parse it so much in order to find fault with it.
I think that has been the problem with the rules since they were first written. The developers write them thinking they are writing something that is clear but then people parse them to suit themselves.
Anyhow, since then we have been debating the parsing. I personally find it tiresome and not really worth the effort but I am also bored so...here I am. :)
- Gauss
When I speak of practical application I mean how the rules actually work also, not how someone may or may not use the rules in a game. As an example the practical application of power attack gives you a 3/1 ratio for two-handed weapons with regard to extra damage vs the penalty. The fact that someone may not use the feat after taking it would be would be table variation. How the feat works is not, table variation though.
By the same token the intent of location should be variable by the table since a GM could just say the entire planet or even the plane is your location.