Burning Spell + Burning Hands

[Kenneth Souther]

I'm new to the rules in Pathfinder, so some of the different skill sets that combine are a bit confusing to me.

One of my players created a 1st lvl half-elf sorcerer and chose these Feats/Traits/Flaws for his character:

Burning Spell
Gifted Adept (G.A.) - Burning Hands
Precocious Spellcaster (P.S.) - Jolt, Burning Hands

Burning Hands does 1D4 dmg per lvl.

Question 1: When he uses it, Burning Hands then should be doing 3d4 dmg (1st lvl & +1 G.A. & +1 P.S.) and then at the start of the next round the victim would take 2d4 dmg more? (Burning Spell 2 X 1st lvl spell)<<When a creature takes acid or fire damage from the affected spell, that creature takes damage equal to 2× the spell's actual level at the start of its next turn.>> Then by the beginning of the 3rd round, no damage, right?

Question 2: What does this mean for him at first level? <<A burning spell uses up a slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.>> Does this mean he can't even use this Metamagic until he has access to at least 3rd lvl spells? He currently has only 2 1st lvl spells (Burning Hands, Burning Disarm).

[PrinceDogWaterIII]

The traits that you presented are untyped trait bonuses that by RAW(as far as I know) do indeed stack. However remember that the cap for burning hands is 5d4 at caster level 5.

Burning Spell

Benefit: The acid or fire effects of the affected spell adhere to the creature, causing more damage the next round. When a creature takes acid or fire damage from the affected spell, that creature takes damage equal to 2x the spell’s actual level at the start of its next turn. The damage is acid or fire, as determined by the spell’s descriptor. If a burning spell has both the fire and acid descriptor, the caster chooses what kind of damage is dealt by the burning spell effect.

Level Increase: +2 (a burning spell uses up a slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.)

You're correct a burning hands spell modified by the burning spell is a 3rd level spell and cannot be cast until the character has 3rd level arcane spell slots. However the damage from burning spell either means it deals 2 multiplied by the Original's spell level or the final modified spell level. Which for burning hands if it is the former it would deal 5d4 plus 2, the later it would deal 5d4 +6 damage. Assuming caster level of at least five(minimum required to cast third level spells).

[Kenneth Souther]

Gifted Adept and Precocious Spellcaster only adds Caster Level, not Spell Level, so when he reaches 5th lvl, his Burning Hands will do 5d4 on the round cast , then 2 points of damage on the second round since the Spell Level is unaffected by those traits, only caster level.

Sounds like he should rethink his strategy.

It seems then that Burning Spell Metamagic is going to be pointless to have at the start of your adventuring career;

I guess I don't understand the reason of this metamagic being offered at 1st lvl then. Course, I'm sure there are a variety of traits like that I'm not aware of.

Thank you for the clarification.

[Gignere]

Burning spell is really craptastic and if you were kind you may allow him to select a different feat.

Bumping the spell levels by 2 just to add a max of 14 points of damage (assuming a 7th level spell) out of a 9th level slot is the definition of a weak feat.

[ProfPotts]

At level 1 the guy is casting Burning Hands at a caster level of 3, so he's doing 3d4 damage. As others have mentioned, he can't add the Burning Spell Metamagic Feat to that until he can cast level 3 spells (adding Burning Spell would make the Burning Hands spell a level 3 spell). Since he's a Sorcerer, that would be at Sorcerer level 6. At that level he's casting Burning Hands at caster level 8 (from his two +1 to caster level boosts he gets for the spell), but the damage cap on the spell still limits him to 5d4 damage. With the Burning Spell effect all the bad guys hit by the spell would take 2 additional points of damage at the start of their next turn. Burning Spell adds 2x the spells actual level as additional damage at the start of the next turn, and for all Metamagic apart from Heighten Spell the spell's actual level is the level the spell starts at before you apply the Metamagic to it.

Burning Spell is pretty (to quote) 'craptastic' when it's applied to the sort of spells you tend to instantly think about when you first read it: stuff like Burning Hands or Acid Arrow. It's actually more designed for longer-lasting spells, like Wall of Fire or Fire Shield, where it's actually quite good (although maybe not worth a 2 level bump, but still...).

A better bet for this guy may be Intensified Spell, as it increases the damage cap of the spell it's applied to by 5 dice. That would keep his investment in adding caster levels to Burning Hands relevant for a few more levels. He still wouldn't need it at level 1 though (it won't be until level 4 that he's actually got a higher caster level for his Burning Hands than the spell's base damage cap allows).

He also may want to consider changing that Gifted Adept trait for the Magical Lineage trait applied to Burning Hands. He'd only get the +1 caster level bump from Precocious Spellcaster, so his spell would be a little weaker to start with, but when he gets to level 5, and wants to be applying Intensified Spell to his Burning Hands to up the damage cap (since he'll have exceeded it at that point, even with just the +1 boost to caster level) he can take Intensified Spell as his 5th level Feat, and apply it to his Burning Hands whilst still only using a 1st level (rather than a 2nd level) spell slot to cast the thing.

Magical Lineage on Burning Hands could be helpful as early as level 1 if he goes for some other Metamagic Feats as well. Elemental Spell would be a good choice for Burning Hands, for example, because it allows him to swop the spell's energy type to avoid creatures' resistances and invulnerabilities, and target their weaknesses.