I am very much of a mind to convert the 3.5 Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (with some elements of the original) to Pathfinder and run it in the world of Golarion. I am aware that there is an older thread for this, but it hasn't been posted in for over a year so I decided to make a new one. If this offends others you have my apologies.
First, I was considering placement. Part of me leans towards NW Ustalav, in the more mountainous parts of the Palatinates where a fog shrouded village like Barovia could easily be tucked away and lost to time. But others have pointed out how undead heavy Ustalav is already and that makes me consider either Varisia (probably in the SE) or the River Kingdoms, where a small village like Barovia could easily be dropped in among the constantly shifting holdings. I ask you, my fellow Paizoians (Paizoites?), to weigh in.
Secondly, I am considering if there is a way to start the PCs at first level around the village and have them work their way up to the actual adventure itself. The adventure doesn't start until 6th level so I need at least five levels of distraction before they turn their attention on the Count. I was considering using them as unwitting pawns in the priest's mad scheme from the 3.5 version. Anyone else have some suggestions as to how to tone down Barovia until they're ready for the real pain of Strahd's attention?
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Well, as you have said, there is already a (sort of) Ravenloft-light area in Golarion called Ustalav. Ustalav isn't that undead heavy that Barovia would be questionable. You could actually do a few things, and many of them are actually fairly close to that area. One could be to place it inside the Worldound near Mendev, which could be an interesting way of hiding it from the rest of the world. Isseren and the Lands of the Linorm Kings would also be a great choice, (especially due to the connection with Hags already), with minor flavor shifts. Drop Baba Yaga completely, or make her a minor, more localized threat at best, for example.
Varisia is an okay option, but it's also far past the point of having way too much attention/stuff crammed in there just because. A few other options, sort of off the wall would be to leave Barovia/Ravenloft as a pocket plane, or even another planet like those presented in Distant Worlds. It could be a rather strange (slightly overdone, but no moreso than Varisia or other elements) secret within the Eye of Abendego.
It could also easily be a land outside of the Inner Sea Region of Golarion that isn't yet explored.
There really ins't a wrong answer, per se. However, you should note that the changes in Pathfinder, specifically about things like Channel Energy, will make any Ravenloftish game from difficult to extremely difficult 5min work days. Even the majority of the fluff about the Lightbringers and the Knight of the Raven (which is amazing) is kind of negated in Pathfinder.
Well you could take a page from the original Ravenloft.
As I recall, the original had Castle Ravenloft, and environs in a pocket plane that would occasionally grab the occasional adventuring party. Nothing quite like the terror on players faces when you told them a fog bank rolls in in the middle of the night....
Maybe your right, it's been a long time since I've read it.
Well you could take a page from the original Ravenloft.
As I recall, the original had Castle Ravenloft, and environs in a pocket plane that would occasionally grab the occasional adventuring party. Nothing quite like the terror on players faces when you told them a fog bank rolls in in the middle of the night....
That's definitely from the campaign setting and not the original adventure. It's a decent idea, but that's not the direction I want to take things. There's already some plane-hopping to start the adventure out, don't want to double down on it and confuse the relatively newbie players.
Well, as you have said, there is already a (sort of) Ravenloft-light area in Golarion called Ustalav. Ustalav isn't that undead heavy that Barovia would be questionable. You could actually do a few things, and many of them are actually fairly close to that area. One could be to place it inside the Worldound near Mendev, which could be an interesting way of hiding it from the rest of the world. Isseren and the Lands of the Linorm Kings would also be a great choice, (especially due to the connection with Hags already), with minor flavor shifts. Drop Baba Yaga completely, or make her a minor, more localized threat at best, for example.
Varisia is an okay option, but it's also far past the point of having way too much attention/stuff crammed in there just because. A few other options, sort of off the wall would be to leave Barovia/Ravenloft as a pocket plane, or even another planet like those presented in Distant Worlds. It could be a rather strange (slightly overdone, but no moreso than Varisia or other elements) secret within the Eye of Abendego.
It could also easily be a land outside of the Inner Sea Region of Golarion that isn't yet explored.
There really ins't a wrong answer, per se. However, you should note that the changes in Pathfinder, specifically about things like Channel Energy, will make any Ravenloftish game from difficult to extremely difficult 5min work days. Even the majority of the fluff about the Lightbringers and the Knight of the Raven (which is amazing) is kind of negated in Pathfinder.
I'm trying to keep it on western Avistan simply because these are relatively new players and they're kind of familiar with that area already. I don't want to overwhelm them with place names and different cultures too soon. You make a good point about Varisia though, there's hardly a hamlet in that country that doesn't have a monster problem. I think that I might go with my original plan and stick it in Northwestern Ustalav, somewhere in the Palatinates along the mountainous border with Belkzen.
Would you mind expanding a little more on the changes that will possibly make this more difficult? I'm prepping the beginning of the adventure for tomorrow so it's not especially important that I have all that info right now, but it would be nice to have in mind early on.
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A lot of the options in the back, (and a good deal of the special gear in the book) are designed around Turning, and are either wierd with or useless for Channeling. Channeling Energy is limited in PF. You can only take Extra Channeling one time, for example, and the Feats do not work together at all, but rather let you use the same pool to do something else, but not at the same time. Headband of Wis/Cha also uses the same slot as the Phylactery of Channeling, meaning that the Cleric is going to be extremely hard pressed to keep up with what a 3.5 Cleric was expected to do at minimume. A Neg Energy one will likely get a lot of party TPK's.
A lot of the options, like the Lightbringer Cleric, added to the class, in 3.5, but it does what PF Clerics already do, just slightly differently, but will need to be houseruled to work. I have not actually run EtCR in PF, so I am just guessing here, but this adventure (which is epic and on my top 2 ever published) seems like it will really show the cracks in the Channel Energy change. I would either suggest going with the Beta version or reducing the threat level on many of the encounters. I could be wrong, though.
Also add in the fact that Rogues can Sneak Attack Undead all day, they can be critted, it's really shifted the presumptions of the 3.5 adventure.
Well, as you have said, there is already a (sort of) Ravenloft-light area in Golarion called Ustalav. Ustalav isn't that undead heavy that Barovia would be questionable. You could actually do a few things, and many of them are actually fairly close to that area. One could be to place it inside the Worldound near Mendev, which could be an interesting way of hiding it from the rest of the world. Isseren and the Lands of the Linorm Kings would also be a great choice, (especially due to the connection with Hags already), with minor flavor shifts. Drop Baba Yaga completely, or make her a minor, more localized threat at best, for example.
Varisia is an okay option, but it's also far past the point of having way too much attention/stuff crammed in there just because. A few other options, sort of off the wall would be to leave Barovia/Ravenloft as a pocket plane, or even another planet like those presented in Distant Worlds. It could be a rather strange (slightly overdone, but no moreso than Varisia or other elements) secret within the Eye of Abendego.
It could also easily be a land outside of the Inner Sea Region of Golarion that isn't yet explored.
There really ins't a wrong answer, per se. However, you should note that the changes in Pathfinder, specifically about things like Channel Energy, will make any Ravenloftish game from difficult to extremely difficult 5min work days. Even the majority of the fluff about the Lightbringers and the Knight of the Raven (which is amazing) is kind of negated in Pathfinder.
I'm trying to keep it on western Avistan simply because these are relatively new players and they're kind of familiar with that area already. I don't want to overwhelm them with place names and different cultures too soon. You make a good point about Varisia though, there's hardly a hamlet in that country that doesn't have a monster problem. I think that I might go with my original plan and stick it in Northwestern Ustalav, somewhere in the Palatinates along the...
Have you thought about putting Ravenloft somewhere in Cheliax?
Have you thought about putting Ravenloft somewhere in Cheliax?
It hadn't occurred to me actually. Why do you think it would be a good spot?
A lot of the options in the back, (and a good deal of the special gear in the book) are designed around Turning, and are either wierd with or useless for Channeling. Channeling Energy is limited in PF. You can only take Extra Channeling one time, for example, and the Feats do not work together at all, but rather let you use the same pool to do something else, but not at the same time. Headband of Wis/Cha also uses the same slot as the Phylactery of Channeling, meaning that the Cleric is going to be extremely hard pressed to keep up with what a 3.5 Cleric was expected to do at minimume. A Neg Energy one will likely get a lot of party TPK's.
A lot of the options, like the Lightbringer Cleric, added to the class, in 3.5, but it does what PF Clerics already do, just slightly differently, but will need to be houseruled to work. I have not actually run EtCR in PF, so I am just guessing here, but this adventure (which is epic and on my top 2 ever published) seems like it will really show the cracks in the Channel Energy change. I would either suggest going with the Beta version or reducing the threat level on many of the encounters. I could be wrong, though.
Also add in the fact that Rogues can Sneak Attack Undead all day, they can be critted, it's really shifted the presumptions of the 3.5 adventure.
That does really change it. Hmm... I don't think I was really going to do the Lightbringer substitution levels anyway. But the turning vs. channeling does raise an interesting issue of how to avoid making a 5 minute work day into a two minute day. The last time I ran this was shortly after it came out and I'm honestly having trouble remembering how it worked out for then. I remember being annoyed at the lack of a proper ending, so I'll be swapping in the optional ending from the older edition. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes. But I'll certainly have to change how some of those items work or it'll just be a drag to give out a badass magic item that does nothing. I've got time though, they've still got to work their way through the first five levels.
Also, do you think that I'll need to use the fast XP track for this to work out properly?
Have you thought about putting Ravenloft somewhere in Cheliax?It hadn't occurred to me actually. Why do you think it would be a good spot?
You seemed unenthusiastic about Ustalav, and Cheliax sounds like another place that would provide the requisite atmosphere of gloom and paranoia.
Have you thought about putting Ravenloft somewhere in Cheliax?It hadn't occurred to me actually. Why do you think it would be a good spot?
You seemed unenthusiastic about Ustalav, and Cheliax sounds like another place that would provide the requisite atmosphere of gloom and paranoia.
That's a pretty good reason. The more I think about it though the more I want to put it in the River Kingdoms. That way at the end of the adventure I can give them the castle and the village as a reward so they've got a home base. It might also lead into a Kingmaker style conquest game.
My suggestion was the Hungry Mountains in Ustalav. They already have the flavor for isolated villages. The Hundred Haunted Vales of the Hungry Mountains basically gives an in-setting excuse to have any kind of isolated trouble there.
My own Ustalav campaign is heavily inspired by Castle Ravenloft, but not actually running it. (Though I may borrow heavily from it if my players go into Castle Galdyce.)
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Cheliax while possible would have a lot of issues. For one, in many ways it is the worlds cultural mecca and that really doesnt fit with the adventure, nor would the commonplace devil worship. Andoran might though, as there are plenty of areas that are remote woodlands and Barovia would be an interesting contrast to the normal philosophy there.
Cheliax while possible would have a lot of issues. For one, in many ways it is the worlds cultural mecca and that really doesnt fit with the adventure, nor would the commonplace devil worship. Andoran might though, as there are plenty of areas that are remote woodlands and Barovia would be an interesting contrast to the normal philosophy there.
Ever heard of Falcon's Hollow? I'd think it's a good place for Castle Ravenloft if Ustalav and Brevoy are not available.
I started a conversion of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft to Pathfinder about a year ago, but ultimately abandoned the project. I was going to put Barovia in Varisia, in the northern Malgorian Mountains, about three days' ride east from Ravenmoor.
When I started the conversion, I was completely new to both Pathfinder and Golarion. I picked up the then-brand-new Inner Sea World Guide, and was looking for a place to put Barovia. I decided that the Zarovich family had been exiled from Ustalav, and had relocated to Varisia. I chose Varisia because the write-up seemed to be the most "standard fantasy" setting, and that a gloomy place like Barovia would be out-of-place. I then decided to start the PCs at Level 1 in a "normal" place, and the Sandpoint description in the ISWG seemed like a great place to start. Given the one-paragraph write-up, I wrote the outline of a goblin raid on the town, and a conspiracy involving the ghost of The Chopper and a cult of Lamashtu worshipers. When I ran my outline by people on these boards, it was pointed out that I was essentially writing Burnt Offerings, so I bought Pathfinder #1, and ran it. For a while, I had planned to run Skinsaw Murders into Ravenloft, but when I began the actual conversion of EtCR, I came to the conclusion that Rise of the Runelords was just an all-around better adventure series, so I abandoned the whole Ravenloft thing.
I do agree that a lot of the supplemental material in EtCR doesn't convert all that well to Pathfinder. Actually, I found the whole plot of EtCR to be a bit disjointed and thought that the writers were trying to cram too many horror movie tropes into it, diluting the gothic horror that made the original so special. I ended up picking up a copy of the original 1985 AD&D module I6: Castle Ravenloft, and worked on converting that directly to Pathfinder a bit, so as to strip out the zombie apocalypse/witch coven/Lovecraftian stuff that EtCR threw together. Ultimately, I decided that Rise of the Runelords would be more fun to run.
Good luck!
A little off topic, but I ran a castle Ravenloft conversion lat year, and it went well, you have to adjust bad guys up +2-+5 CR and tweek a few characters, but the 2.5 module Return to Castle Ravenloft worked great. let mm know If you have any questions? UStalav is the perfect place to set it.
What about the mists from the Ravenloft setting settling over Ustalav? IT would alter terrain to place Castle Ravenloft wherever you want. Typically, these were called...Masques, I think. The inhabitants would have complete memories of living in the area, even though it just appeared. It could solve the Smart player question "Where the *flake flippin snow gypsy* did THIS place come from?"
Thanks for the responses and dealing with my vacillation on the issue of location. Ultimately I think that I'm going to go with NW Ustalav as the location of Barovia.
I started a conversion of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft to Pathfinder about a year ago, but ultimately abandoned the project. I was going to put Barovia in Varisia, in the northern Malgorian Mountains, about three days' ride east from Ravenmoor.
When I started the conversion, I was completely new to both Pathfinder and Golarion. I picked up the then-brand-new Inner Sea World Guide, and was looking for a place to put Barovia. I decided that the Zarovich family had been exiled from Ustalav, and had relocated to Varisia. I chose Varisia because the write-up seemed to be the most "standard fantasy" setting, and that a gloomy place like Barovia would be out-of-place. I then decided to start the PCs at Level 1 in a "normal" place, and the Sandpoint description in the ISWG seemed like a great place to start. Given the one-paragraph write-up, I wrote the outline of a goblin raid on the town, and a conspiracy involving the ghost of The Chopper and a cult of Lamashtu worshipers. When I ran my outline by people on these boards, it was pointed out that I was essentially writing Burnt Offerings, so I bought Pathfinder #1, and ran it. For a while, I had planned to run Skinsaw Murders into Ravenloft, but when I began the actual conversion of EtCR, I came to the conclusion that Rise of the Runelords was just an all-around better adventure series, so I abandoned the whole Ravenloft thing.
I do agree that a lot of the supplemental material in EtCR doesn't convert all that well to Pathfinder. Actually, I found the whole plot of EtCR to be a bit disjointed and thought that the writers were trying to cram too many horror movie tropes into it, diluting the gothic horror that made the original so special. I ended up picking up a copy of the original 1985 AD&D module I6: Castle Ravenloft, and worked on converting that directly to Pathfinder a bit, so as to strip out the zombie apocalypse/witch coven/Lovecraftian stuff that EtCR threw...
I will make sure not to read a better adventure and get tempted away then! I do think that I'm going to be subbing in a good deal from the original adventure and scrapping some of the more headshake inducing parts of the 3.5 version, like the zombie apocalypse scenario that must have sounded great in the writer's room, but did not translate well to the actual adventure.
A little off topic, but I ran a castle Ravenloft conversion lat year, and it went well, you have to adjust bad guys up +2-+5 CR and tweek a few characters, but the 2.5 module Return to Castle Ravenloft worked great. let mm know If you have any questions? UStalav is the perfect place to set it.
I don't think I've ever seen Return to Castle Ravenloft, is it available online for free or would I need to pay? (which I'm totally willing to do if it's worth it) How did you deal with the issue of channeling vs turning in the conversion process? How did you deal with the Sunsword and Holy Symbol of Ravenkind, did you keep them as legacy weapons or did you just make them unique magic items of a less intricate quality? What gave you the most trouble in converting and what should I watch out for? I had more on my mind, but it escaped me, but I think I've asked you plenty of questions already!
I used the 3.5 book
1.How did you deal with the issue of channeling vs turning in the conversion process?
A: I just let the channel energy work and ignored turning I occasionally had to raise the CR of the zombies it didn't really change much
2.How did you deal with the Sunsword and Holy Symbol of Ravenkind, did you keep them as legacy weapons or did you just make them unique magic items of a less intricate quality
A: the sun sword I kept the same, and the Holy symbol I had to tweak I had the person who got it use magical device to trick it to channel, Honestly though I had never ed DMed it before So I had to wing it. Also most of my players ignored the symbol and kinda wandered around.
3. What gave you the most trouble in converting and what should I watch out for?
A: I had never DMed pathfinder before so i let them do 35 poitn buy system and the players were super over powered, my main advice woudl to be go for broke and plan ahead each session on what the combat will look like, the book gives you suggestions you can follow that or just be smart. I had to hold back a few time to aviod a TPK
I also threw in a few custom monsters and raised the CR by 1-4 steps. basicly the hardest part was adding the extra feats to the NPCs also give strahd like a 10 CR Boost. I ended up having his coffin being a Golem the party had to fight. we wanted to end the campaign early so I had a shoot out in the town square where Strahd threw his army at my players.here are a few good links on the board. you can always ask me anything
Sorry in advance for the wall of text, I have a lot to say however, so please don't hold it against me.
Now that I've addressed some of the early issues, I wanted to share what my goals for the campaign. I have a group of relatively inexperienced players at present who have a problem understanding that just because you can do whatever you want in a RPG doesn't mean that you're free from consequences and that your character doesn't come back from the last save point. So I've decided that I'm going to have them play themselves as regular people transported by a magical accident (or whatever, I haven't really decided yet because the field is wide open in this regard) to the world of Golarion. I'm hoping that this will cause them to think with self preservation in mind.
After their trip through dimensions they end up in a crypt where they arm themselves with rusty weapons and armor and find their calling as adventurers. I'm thinking that the crypt might have some connection with the Knights of the Raven, but I haven't decided yet. Regardless, when they exit they find themselves already within in the county of Barovia, coming up at the crossroads by the gallows and the unhallowed graves. Their actions in the crypt get the attention of a hermit who acts as a caretaker for the area and offers the PCs his roof and whatever food he can scrounge up, but more importantly he trains them in what class they wish to become and hints that he may know what happened to them.
As to the area itself. I'm planning on expanding it a little, adding a second village, New Barovia (I'm thinking that each will say that it's the original Barovia and that the other village is full of liars), and some wilderness to accompany it. Each village hates each other and says that it's full of liars and werewolves and necromancers and all sorts of horrible things. However, each village will be almost exactly the same, some people even down to mannerisms and speech patterns. I haven't yet decided if that's a creepy coincidence or something more sinister. The only thing that keeps them from rushing to burn each others village down is Strahd, who, rather than being a devil and a scourge upon the land, is seen as a necessary evil.
The way Barovia was set up before always bothered me. It just seemed like the residents would all be killed years before the adventure started by Strahd and his minions at the rate they attack. And if that didn't happen the tension and fear would drive the village mad and they would either storm the castle and all die or try to run and die that way. It seems to me that Barovia needs something else to hate besides Strahd, and he's smart enough to realize that, so he solved that problem by making them hate each other.
The early adventure, before they're ready to meet Strahd, they'll work at solving a mystery of disappearing townsfolk. Obvious both villages accuse the other of harboring witches, necromancers, werewolves and every other monster you could think of. They're also quick to blame the hermit at the graveyard (who is clearly up to something, everyone agrees on that) and his new boarders who came from nowhere and have funny accents and strange clothes, even stranger than the gypsies (but they have the Count's protection).
I had more, but the forum ate my post.
Q&A
I don't plan on really using the zombies, or at least the zombie apocalypse scenario at the beginning, I'm sure there's more than a few strewn around Ravenloft. What did you do specifically with the zombies, add a template/work out higher hit die or just an ad hoc ruling at the time? I'm \curious to see what you did so I know what to expect if I implement it.
I hadn't even thought about the feats! Something so basic... My group is going in with a 15 point buy. I'm trying to get them to play smarter so I'm making them more vulnerable. I sincerely hope it works and hope that I'm not just sending to their graves faster.
That coffin golem idea sounds pretty awesome so I might take it. Factor in the grave dirt as some kind of evil earth elemental...yeah... I'm going to TPK the heck out them! Muahahahaha
I called it robo strahd I got the idea form the old WOlenstien game.
for the Zombie Template I would now add +2 turn resistance, and maybe the Advance Template. but the Zombies were tough. If I wanted to be a super jerk make them Fast ZOmbies
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Hi sorry for my bad english ...
I converted for Pathfinder rules "I6 9075 - Ravenloft module" ... but it's in french ...
You have :
- the adventure in PDF : http://sasmira.free.fr/pathfinder/Ravenloft/Ravenlot_Pathfinder_web_v2a.pdf
- the bestiary in PDF : http://sasmira.free.fr/pathfinder/Ravenloft/Ravenloft_bestiaire_web_v1a.pdf
