I'm playing in a Carrion Crown game and I need a new character. If it matters why I want to change, here's the story.
Even after I spent my first Discovery on Precise Bombs, rather than Infusion as I had planned, he houseruled some swarm rules on the spot and declared that if I threw a bomb at the 5x5 swarm we were fighting, it'd hurt the ally sharing the swarm's space--even if I exclude that square from the splash damage. Hell, I was told I'd hurt my ally even if I used Targeted Bomb Admixture.
I know what the typical answer will be, but the AP seems really cool, so, I want to give this another shot. Maybe he just didn't like Alchemists?
I was all set and ready with an awesome Dual Cursed Oracle of Life. However, he denied it, saying that an Oracle of Life would remove all danger and effectively obsolete the first dungeon. I don't know, I thought the entire point of playing a well-built Oracle of Life was to remove danger, but whatever--it's his right, of course, so I'll deal.
Unfortunately, this has left me with no idea on what to do. I don't want to step on the party's toes--most of them are hideously unoptimized (almost anti-optimized in some cases), so it would be difficult to play the same class without outshining them. Plus, it's a large party--8 players--so, there's not a lot of toe room left.
Half-Orc Two-Handed Fighter
Half-Orc Wolf Shaman (powerful now, but obviously his archetype choice was short-sighted)
Aasimar Sword 'n' Board Paladin
Dwarven Waraxe 'n' Board Fighter
Human Rogue (is already frustrated with how weak rogues are, at level 2)
Aasimar Cleric (chose Air and Animal for domains...)
Oh, and only the Inquisitor carries a real ranged weapon. /sigh
The group definitely needs fewer Big Dumb Fighters and more magical and/or ranged support/utility/control, so my initial thought was a Sorcerer. I love playing control-focused sorcerers, but it's Carrion Crown. While I don't know spoilers, at least through 2 levels, it's been all undead all the time and I'm pretty sure there's more to come, including incorporeal stuff.
All the early control spells I'm most familiar with won't work on undead, especially incorporeal undead (not even Grease will work on them!). The Undead Bloodline won't help, either, because from what I can tell, while it makes the undead count as humanoid, it doesn't actually alter their immunity to mind affecting effects. I can't think of a single control spell that this would help with--it seems far more helpful for buffing (Enlarge Person) than controlling undead, which I guess makes sense but doesn't help me.
I also considered a Magus crit build, but the GM is using a crit deck, and so far, it has turned every crit we've landed into a disappointment. Not a single card dealt extra damage so far, and none of the special effects generated were worthwhile.
I like the idea of the Lorewarden, but, well, we don't need more melee and there's two fighters already. An archer Ranger is appealing, but I don't know if I'd enjoy it out of combat (too much overlap with the Druid and Inquisitor), plus, there's already two animal companions in the party.
Does anyone have any suggestions for something interesting and effective against a lot of undead, including convincing me that one of the above ideas is actually a good one? I'm open to pretty much any idea.
As a sidenote, though, because the group is so lacking in optimization, I'd far rather prop them up with buffs and control effects than taking all the spotlight myself. I would rather make them feel awesome than have every action I take make them feel inadequate. Oh, and there's already too many players, in my opinion, and two animal companions, so as much as I love summoning, I think it'll just drag every combat out even longer.
Everyone loves a bard for buffing. They have lots of different flavors as well. I like a song healer with the flagbearer feat for added effectiveness. You will also get access to cure spells if you want as well so you can still help that way too.
How is it ok having a Paladin and cleric in the party but a life oracle is not cool? I'm in a 4 man party running Carrion Crown and our life oracle spent most of his time trying to keep people alive than trivializing encounters.
I know. The only things I can think of are not liking me for whatever reason, him regretting allowing them in the first place but not asking them to change, or him realizing that I am better with numbers and rules than they are and that my Oracle of Life would be far more effective than their characters in that area. I'm hoping it's one of the latter two and remaining optimistic by assuming so until proven otherwise.
I think your GM is trying to kill you rather than let you play the game but I could be wrong.
Yes, I agree. I believe he thinks that making everything extremely dangerous and deadly will enhance the "horror" feel the module is intended to have. I disagree, and feel that "horror" is more in the presentation than in brutal, barely winnable fights. The druid actually died once already but just made his character's brother. The dwarf also died, by rights, but the GM kind of made a show out of fudging the coup de grace roll and then declaring the zombie broke its teeth on the dwarf's helmet rather than killing him. I don't know why, and it really bothered me (I'd rather him not initiate the coup de grace in the first place, or allow the death than to initiate it but then deus ex machina survival). But, I can handle it--I'd rather play than not play.
Edit: One thing to try is to make an Undead bloodline Sorcerer. Would allow you to play battlefield control even against undead and you wont have to worry about crowding up the battlefield with another melee character.
I actually addressed that in my post--I don't think it helps CC at all, because most CC is mind affecting or hits Fortitude. While it lets me treat undead as Humanoid, I don't think it stops them from being immune to that stuff.
It's like, "Hooray, I can Charm Person and Hold Person undead! Oh, no wait, mind-affecting..." And it doesn't do anything to help with Color Spray, Sleep, or spells that hit Fortitude like Sound Burst or the inflicted control conditions themselves (even if Sound Burst, Color Spray, or Sleep worked, a zombie can't be stunned, knocked unconscious, or made to sleep). I think it's really intended to let you buff your undead minions more easily with things like Enlarge Person and stuff of that nature.
A big party, many melee characters and a bit "underoptimized".
Play a bard. Do not sing or stuff like this. Play some kind of veteran/drill sergeant that barks commands over the battlefield to inspire courage and try to teach them some optimuization ingame.
"Believe me sir paladin if you grap the shield like this you can hit an enemy with it... just give it a try!"
Aim for:
Human(Bard): Flagbearer + Banner of the Ancient Kings + Longspear
or
Human(Bard): Archer with +1 Designating Shortbow
.
I also considered a Magus crit build, but the GM is using a crit deck, and so far, it has turned every crit we've landed into a disappointment. Not a single card dealt extra damage so far, and none of the special effects generated were worthwhile.
I hope your GM reads the inlay rules for the crit deck. Some feats (like weapon focus) grant extra card draws on the crit deck and crit multipliers above x2 grant extra card draws, too. If i remeber this right the criting player can choose between the cards that were drawn this way.
As you said the damage output with this crit deck is poor, but if used with the RAW rules it quite often creates funning debuffs and special effects.
Everyone loves a bard for buffing. They have lots of different flavors as well. I like a song healer with the flagbearer feat for added effectiveness. You will also get access to cure spells if you want as well so you can still help that way too.
I've never looked at Flagbearer or Songhealer--I'll have to check it out.
I was just thinking about Bard, but I think I'd be most disappointed about being unable to affect all the undead with all the cool mind-affecting abilities they get.
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I suggest a support-summoner.
Summoner offers the following:
Access to a great spell list - barkskin, haste, and stoneskin I'm looking at you.
An eidolon that can fill whatever role your party is lacking. Since there's no shortage of melee I'd suggest a skill-focused eidolon. You can easily start with an eidolon that has Increased Int and Skilled x3 -disable device, stealth, perception if you need a rogue - Knowledge: Arcana, Religion, History if you need a sage, etc.
Summon Monster as a good all-purpose problem solver. Fighting flying enemies? Summon eagles. Swimming enemies? Water elementals. Need impromptu mounts? Horses.
Whatever you do, do not fall into the trap of building a melee-focused facebeater eidolon. Your group needs support not another frontliner.
A big party, many melee characters and a bit "underoptimized".
Play a bard. Do not sing or stuff like this. Play some kind of veteran/drill sergeant that barks commands over the battlefield to inspire courage and try to teach them some optimuization ingame."Believe me sir paladin if you grap the shield like this you can hit an enemy with it... just give it a try!"
Ha, nice. It seems like Bard was the thing I was missing--seems like a Dirge Bard will even let me actually Charm undead...
Human(Bard): Flagbearer + Banner of the Ancient Kings + Longspear
Ok, that looks awesome. However, I have to admit, I've never played in a D&D/Pathfinder game that actually included magic items before (I've run about 95% of the games I'm involved in, and I never include non-MacGuffin magic items). Is 18k gold a lot of money? As a guy whose PCs are extremely poor pretty much all the time, it looks like a crazy amount. What level is that sort of thing likely to be available?
Human(Bard): Archer with +1 Designating Shortbow
I'm having trouble finding the "Designating" prefix. Can you link it, if it's not too much trouble? I'd prefer a ranged weapon over a melee one, even though that Banner of Ancient Kings is awesome enough to tempt me.
There's the Undead Lord cleric archetype, if you wanted a different way to deal with undead. If you'd prefer something with a bit more pulp Transylvanian flavor, can't go wrong with a fortune-telling Sczarni Witch.
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Quick suggestions, Master Summoner (Like what Feral said, they can buff and still a ton of things.) Or Bard (Buffer type.)
BTW, your GM may have stopped you due to the large party size. He may be feeling that he got more then he asked for and is trying to control the party by not letting optimized builds in.
Human(Bard): Flagbearer + Banner of the Ancient Kings + LongspearOk, that looks awesome. However, I have to admit, I've never played in a D&D/Pathfinder game that actually included magic items before (I've run about 95% of the games I'm involved in, and I never include non-MacGuffin magic items). Is 18k gold a lot of money? As a guy whose PCs are extremely poor pretty much all the time, it looks like a crazy amount. What level is that sort of thing likely to be available?
If i aim for a specific item i will check with my GM before i start the character and for such special things i would also invest in the craft wounderous items feat to build it myself for 9k. But only in a compain with engouh down time like Kingmaker (sorry i don't know CC). It will kick in late. If i could craft this thing for 9k i would say 7th - 8th level but the effect is quite cool. You can help a big melee party a lote, you will not steal the show from the rest of your party and you can still optimize this tatic. Asimar favorid class boni for example...
Human(Bard): Archer with +1 Designating ShortbowI'm having trouble finding the "Designating" prefix. Can you link it, if it's not too much trouble? I'd prefer a ranged weapon over a melee one, even though that Banner of Ancient Kings is awesome enough to tempt me.
Its a +2 weapon enchantment form Ultimate Equipment
DESIGNATING, LESSER
This special ability can only be placed on ranged weapons or
ammunition. Each time a ranged weapon or ammunition with
this ability hits a creature, its magic designates the target. Allies
gain a +2 morale bonus on melee attack and melee damage
rolls against the designated target for 1 round. Multiple
successful shots fired at the same target do not increase the
bonuses or their duration.
The greater version is +4/+6 as a +4 enchantment. This is expansive i know. But i like support characters and in a big party it can be a good addition if done right. Your GM seams to hate the big damage numbers and with an item like this you can make an archer that deals less direct damage but give nice boni with every shoot to your melee party mates...