Tiefling Prehensile Tail + Metamagic Rods?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Since this has been necro'd, I'll repeat myself. Once more, for emphasis:

StreamOfTheSky wrote:

In any case, this is ONLY an issue for the Magus, so while I agree primary casters are quite powerful and don't mind harsh rules readings to nerf them... Wizards don't care about this tail nonsense anyway. Their hands are totally free between the mithral buckler strapped to their arm and the complete lack of need for a weapon. Trying to come down against using the tail for rods doesn't actually hurt the powerful casters. It would just hurt the Magus, which is a perfectly middle tier, reasonably balanced fighter/mage hybrid class.

[Rudy2]

If one can't use the tail to hold a metamagic rod, then does the following sequence work?

Start of the round. Glove of Storing on your Weapon hand. The hand is holding your scimitar. You are holding nothing in your other hand.

You start Spell Combat, since you have a weapon in one hand and nothing in the other.

Free action, your glove of storing sucks up the weapon, leaving the hand free for casting.

You retrieve your metamagic wand into your other hand using your tail as a swift action, and cast your spell as part of spell combat. You drop the rod as a free action (your familiar will get it, or something; don't worry about it)

Your weapon comes back into your hand from the glove as a free action, and you can now proceed to make your attacks from Spell Combat.

?

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Rudy2 wrote:

If one can't use the tail to hold a metamagic rod, then does the following sequence work?

Start of the round. Glove of Storing on your Weapon hand. The hand is holding your scimitar. You are holding nothing in your other hand.

You start Spell Combat, since you have a weapon in one hand and nothing in the other.

Free action, your glove of storing sucks up the weapon, leaving the hand free for casting.

You retrieve your metamagic wand into your other hand using your tail as a swift action, and cast your spell as part of spell combat. You drop the rod as a free action (your familiar will get it, or something; don't worry about it)

Your weapon comes back into your hand from the glove as a free action, and you can now proceed to make your attacks from Spell Combat.

?

Nope, spell combat also requires that you have a weapon in your other hand for the entire round as well.

Unless you have a third hand to use that rod you can never mix Spell Combat and a metamagic rod together.

[LazarX]

bbangerter wrote:

The magus can always wield the rod as a mace, letting it serve as both spell booster and weapon.

Save that it's a really crappy weapon. Metamagic rods and magi simply do not mix. That's why the arcana is an option. What you want is a metamagic helm. it's expensive and there is exactly one season 4 scenario to get your hands on one.

[Rudy2]

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Nope, spell combat also requires that you have a weapon in your other hand for the entire round as well.

Hmm... prehensile tail is looking less and less like it's something useful.

Ah, but the following would work for spellstrike at least, yes?

Start of the round, nothing in either hand. Enemy is not next to you.

You swift action retrieve the rod to one hand using your tail. You cast the spell as a standard action, having the charge in hand. You then move to the enemy as your move action, drawing your weapon as part of the move. Finally, you use your free melee delivery attack on the enemy through your weapon. This works, yes? If so, then the tail is still useful to a magus.

[James Jacobs]

I say it's legal to do so. And not only becasue my tiefling in Rob's Way of the Wicked game has a prehensile tail.

But seriously... you're spending a feat and a race trait to get this advantage. What's wrong with it being an actual advantage? Carrying a rod in the tail is hardly game breaking.

Tailed tieflings unite against the tailless oppressors!!!!

[Rudy2]

So, you think it should be allowed, but only if they took the Grasping Tail feat? Not if they only have the race trait? That seems balanced, I suppose.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Rudy2 wrote:

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Nope, spell combat also requires that you have a weapon in your other hand for the entire round as well.

Hmm... prehensile tail is looking less and less like it's something useful.

Ah, but the following would work for spellstrike at least, yes?

Start of the round, nothing in either hand. Enemy is not next to you.

You swift action retrieve the rod to one hand using your tail. You cast the spell as a standard action, having the charge in hand. You then move to the enemy as your move action, drawing your weapon as part of the move. Finally, you use your free melee delivery attack on the enemy through your weapon. This works, yes? If so, then the tail is still useful to a magus.

That is perfectly legal. The issue is strictly with the limitations built into the Spell Combat ability. That limitation is what's keeping the magus from adding a rod to the mixture.

[Liath Samathran]

James Jacobs wrote:

I say it's legal to do so. And not only becasue my tiefling in Rob's Way of the Wicked game has a prehensile tail.

But seriously... you're spending a feat and a race trait to get this advantage. What's wrong with it being an actual advantage? Carrying a rod in the tail is hardly game breaking.

Tailed tieflings unite against the tailless oppressors!!!!

But...can't we come to a peaceful understanding instead?!

worried

has also mostly been using his tail to pass items along to others

[seebs]

If "holding" a metamagic rod is not enough, what exactly is it that you have to do with it? "Wield" is not visibly distinct from "hold" except in cases where the object is, say, a weapon or shield.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

seebs wrote:

If "holding" a metamagic rod is not enough, what exactly is it that you have to do with it? "Wield" is not visibly distinct from "hold" except in cases where the object is, say, a weapon or shield.

Waving it around menacingly?

[Rudy2]

I think it's clear by now that there are to many undefined terms involved in the use of rods to really determine whether the tail can be use, for certain.

I think it would be a bad idea to let the racial trait be enough to hold and use a rod, though. Not because it would make the magus too good, but because it would make the tiefling too obviously the best race for the dexterity magus. It's already the case that practically every dex magus is running around with the same weapon (scimitar), and using the same spell (Shocking Grasp), do we really want them all to be the same race, too? The world overrun with tieflings holding a scimitar in one hand, and a metamagic rod with their tail?

I agree with JJ that allowing the trait PLUS a feat, Grasping Tail, is enough to retain balance without making the Tiefling too attractive.

[Marcus Pumper]

This thread is important to me for several reasons, not least of which is the bard who carries a Metamagic: Quicken rod between her teeth so that she can continue the effects of Ghost Sound without having to waste a round where she could have been using hatchets to climb a giant.

Remy Balster wrote:

As far as the Grasping tail feat...

Quote:

If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand).

That bolded bit just means you cannot manipulate objects... like, you cannot use the tail to flip light switches, pull levers, reload a crossbow, etc. You can only pick stuff up, and hold them, and put them in your hand.

If you are holding a rod, you can use it.

I would argue that the wording on the feat is meant to be taken as "you can hold and manipulate such objects with your tail though you cannot do both at the same time (other than to put a held object in your hand)". This means that you can reload a crossbow, pull a lever, unfurl a scroll while wielding a weapon, rotate a pepperbox ect. What you wouldn't be able to do is use the tail to pick a lock or drink a potion.

[Beorn Nitmo]

Much of this is a Moot point as retrieving items with the tail is a swift action not a free action and you only get one of those a round.

Also a Mace or Rod is light melee weapon not a "Small" melee weapon. You could probably craft it size small though (as for a small character) but otherwise it does not qualify for retrieving a "small" item in my opinion otherwise. It may be light but standards are 2 to 3 feet long and 5 pounds.

Glove of storing seems to be the best answer over all. The free actions it permits to summon and dismiss the item are priceless! Not to mention technically, "The item is shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen." I might argue that it IS wielded in a glove of storing as it is "Shrunk Down" and technically in the hand.

"Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use, activation is not an action at all." If all Meta-magic Rods were Standard Actions to Activate it makes them near useless in combat.

I would rule that using a Meta-magic rod does not take an action because it needs to be wielded to me used. Since it does not say in the description that you need a command word to activate it then it just makes since that is not an action to activate. You can find this quote from http://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic-items/#TOC-Using-Items Paizo site or in the Core Rule book.