Beorn Nitmo's page

Much of this is a Moot point as retrieving items with the tail is a swift action not a free action and you only get one of those a round.

Also a Mace or Rod is light melee weapon not a "Small" melee weapon. You could probably craft it size small though (as for a small character) but otherwise it does not qualify for retrieving a "small" item in my opinion otherwise. It may be light but standards are 2 to 3 feet long and 5 pounds.

Glove of storing seems to be the best answer over all. The free actions it permits to summon and dismiss the item are priceless! Not to mention technically, "The item is shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen." I might argue that it IS wielded in a glove of storing as it is "Shrunk Down" and technically in the hand.

"Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use, activation is not an action at all." If all Meta-magic Rods were Standard Actions to Activate it makes them near useless in combat.

I would rule that using a Meta-magic rod does not take an action because it needs to be wielded to me used. Since it does not say in the description that you need a command word to activate it then it just makes since that is not an action to activate. You can find this quote from http://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic-items/#TOC-Using-Items Paizo site or in the Core Rule book.

What do you all think of retraining a bonus feat into something else?

Meaning: You are a 5th level Wizard with a Mythic Tier and the "Crafting Mastery" power that lets you craft all magic items.

Could you (in your opinion) go back and retrain that bonus feat of "inscribe Scroll" into say, a Metamagic Feat now that you have Inscribe Scroll from your Crafting Mastery?

My initial thoughts are "no" but it is worth asking.

Senko where can you find rules for this "Purchase System"?

Quite frankly you make my point for me. Why force a character to take 8 or more crafting feats, making them ineffective in combat (your words, not mine). When they can take 1 mythic ability and still get combat power?

Nowhere in here did I say "You MUST take every crafting feat on top of this ability."

I was agreeing with the fact that the "Crafting Mastery" is amazing for that it bypasses the need for 8 or 9 feats.

I wonder can you retrain bonus feats as something else???

Like say can you retrain "Scribe Scroll" when you qualify for this into something else?

That would be interesting to me as after getting crafting mastery it becomes redundant.

I thought your point here was that you should be able to Craft everything with no control besides DC, Time and Gold the moment you have Crafting Mastery and that I do still disagree with you on. But I am done beating the dead horse. I agree to disagree.

Half the Point of Crafting Mastery is that you can craft everything through one ability rather than have all the requisite feats (8 or 9 for one depending on your GM Ruling).

Time and money are always good control factors but 16,000 gp in a day is a bit much. Anyone giving up all their feats and powers to strictly craft is going to be ineffective in combat versus say anyone who focuses on Meta Magic or Combat feats in general. Doubling the base is a good control as well. 5,000 gp a day is still a huge amount!

The gloves was just a relatively expensive item that was easy to make. Just an example of how easy it is to craft.

All is good. In the end the point probably is moot because of lack of funding as a controller. Just playing a similar concept myself right now and only 4th level but it seems like I can do a lot more than I should be able to yet as I do not qualify for the feats to craft.

We are Tier 2 mythic and walked through a level 10 encounter like nothing and that seemed a bit too easy to me and I want the game to be a challenge when I play and when I GM.

Money and Time are good control factors but I do want to give the time to craft on occasion as well. One of the biggest complaints many of the players I have met over the years is how quickly a campaign goes by! You go from level 1 to level 17 or so in a 2 year or less time frame so it is hard to accomplish creating much if you focus on crafting in that time period.

My player told me today he can get to 5,000 gp per day of crafting and that is quite a bit! I did not ask for details but when the time comes I will.

The trouble of being an adult! No time!

Is anyone on here an Official Paizo representative?

Does anyone disagree that a GM is free to put the limitations on that I suggested before we even start playing? Just clarifying my ruling on it. Take money and time out of the equation and how broken can this be?

Say the PC's all pitch to make a magic item and there are 6 players all with 5,000 gp at 3rd level now the Crafter has 30,000 gold. He has Hedge Magician Trait and being third level he decides to take time off of adventuring and craft while his companions make profession checks.

So they sit and make money the whole time the crafter is crafting with his familiar and Mythic Crafting Mastery. He makes 2 sets of Gloves of the Commanding Conjuror for 15,000 gp cost each.

CL7 +5 + 5 for not qualifying for Control Summon Creature yet = DC 17

3rd level Crafter with 3 ranks in spell craft = 6 points +2 MW Tools +2 Familiar Assisting +1 Hedge Magician +5 Crafters Fortune = roll a 1 to fail AND get 2 rolls to make it happen not to mention 1d6 for Mythic Surge! = 16+1d6 need a 1 to make the item with NO CHANCE OF FAILURE.

Now they can only sell the item for 50% value but they have Hedge Magician that give 5% off the cost to create so they make money even if they do not attempt diplomacy to sell for greater than they crafted the items.

So 30,000 then becomes 31,500 AND the rest of the group gets to make profession rolls to make money while they are at it. This also takes 1 day per thousand to craft, unless you have a Valet Familiar and the Crafting Feat of the item you are crafting then it is either 2,000 or 4,000 gp a day. So 60,000 gp in magic items created = 20 days.

Wash, Rinse and repeat to break a game at really low levels. So 200 gp+ in profit each two weeks why not take a year off from adventuring and make 4,800 gp each? And have the crafter double the cash while they still make money on a profession?

Just saying this could happen in my player's thought patterns! They are already pissed they cannot sell items they create for full value!

To me Wyrwood is not Official Paizo so would not make it into my game. it is a construct not a race anyway. Otherwise many other things being said here are good. But it would not fly in my campaign either.

I am tempted to say you use the level it appears on lowest.

Like you do for scrolls and potions etc.

Scrolls are specific to class no matter what. A character using Use Magic Device has an impact and of course the level of casting matters too!

You would be able to Choose which version you cast and being that the Druid Version is the lowest level to cast it does make sense to go with that.

The only way the higher level version makes sense is if there are no druids in your world.

Giving access to all the feats is not the problem. Giving access to all the feats at once is the problem for a first tier ability. IF this were a higher tier then I would have no objection at all! Even 3rd tier is more balanced than 1st as interpreted but putting in place the level requirements to have access to the individual crafting feats just makes sense and it is insinuated in the wording but not clarified.

Crafting over all is very balanced with cost and requirements to craft and levels at which you can take feats being major points of control. Not to mention the time it takes to craft! When you are an active adventurer it is hard to get a moment of peace when your friends are knocking on your door saying, "Lets go hunt Dragons!"

Crafting can be done from multiple skills for multiple results and there is a basis for Synergy Bonuses should you have corresponding helpful skills for example:

Should a crafter Have Craft Bowyer and Profession Wood Cutter if both skills have 5 ranks each you might give a crafter making Arrows a +2 synergy bonus to that craft check. Skill points are SOOOOO rare that if you are investing your time in multiple things like that they should get a synergy bonus!

Another example might be Craft Cooking and Profession Cooking might give a Synergy bonus if they both are 5 points distributed if you are making a magic item related to food like a Fruitful Sash or a Sustaining Spoon.

Another might be Spell Craft and Knowledge Arcana! Their are so many good ideas that are worth investigating and having a conversation about that it is worth mentioning here even!

The CL is not a requirement it just represents the DC of the Crafting.

To craft a wondrous item it is 5 plus the CL. So with your example 5+12 = a DC17 to craft. That is what the CL does. Unless it is written in the bottom description that you must be a 10th level Cleric or what have you to make this item then the 5+CL is all you need be concerned with.

Crafting Skills can be bypassed already through Spell Craft.

You can fast craft by raising the DC by 5. So say you have a ring of sustenance and need only sleep for half the night or less. You can swift craft on your nights rest and still get complete rest.

Kind of a tangential question. Does Mythic Craft also cover the "Craft Construct" feat? I have a gut feeling about the answer, but I'd like to hear other voices chime in on this.

It is a judgement call that could go either way. I would not permit it because it is not a magic item per se. But I can see where the "Craft" Being in the name could make it doable.

Best to ask your GM how he interprets it before you attempt to use it.

You can take advanced armor training as a feat at 3rd level as a fighter. 2 levels early, again.

No, none of those class abilities are equal to a mythic path ability (even one without a tier requirement). I think you're undervaluing path abilities, they include things like mythic hexes, subtle magic, titan's bane, limitless range - if you can't think how to break encounters with those you aren't trying.

Also - I may be misreading you, but you're reading like you're pretty angry. If so, I suggest you walk away and come back to this later.

Fighter Master Armorer Advanced Armor Training under its online description says 7th level not 3rd.

I am a bit put out as I was looking for someone who GM's to see logic and support this. This is literally putting me at odds with one of my better friends. I made a clarification of how I interpreted the rule before we use it and he is unreasonably mad about it and refusing to play now.

Sorry not trying to come off as mad I just cannot believe this was ever a 1st tier ability much less that I am getting so much flack from a friend after I made a ruling on how it works in my game.

Getting 8 feat equivalent for 1 Tier Power is absolutely amazing and though it scales with you as you level (in my campaign) it is still very worthwhile to take. 5 Feats by 5th level and 8 by 11th without having to buy one of those feats is pretty damn amazing!

"If I put every resource I have into doing a single thing well, the GM will violate the printed rules to make sure that I can't, tell me it's the printed rules, and call others childish, if they disagree."

... I see.

Did someone post this response somewhere and I am not seeing it?

This is not a violation of Printed rules. It is a clarification of a vaguely written rule before we start a Mythic Campaign so we are all on the same page.

Crafting Mastery (Ex)

You can craft any magic item as if you had the necessary item creation feats. If you actually have the item creation feat needed for a magic item you’re crafting, whenever you attempt a skill check to create that item, roll twice and use the higher result, and you make twice as much progress on the item for any time spent. This ability does not reduce the item’s cost or any other requirements.

Last sentence states: "This ability does not reduce the item’s cost or any other requirements."

Therefore you cannot bypass the level restrictions for using a feat as it does not reduce the level requirement.

So avr you again compare a 3rd level feat replacing a first level feat for a specific class when it comes to Arcane Physician and it simply is not 8 feats for one.

Alchemists do get Brew Potion at first level again 1 third level feat versus 8 over 11 levels is not comparison

Salamander Bloodline and Forgemaster Cleric get you Craft Arms and Armor a 5th level feat at 3rd level. Again 1 specific option to get you 1 feat 2 levels early and not 8 feats at second level and it still is no comparison.

Fighter Master Armorer Advanced Armor Training at 7th level lets you use your base attack in lieu of a craft skill check to craft magical ARMOR only as if you have the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. Really getting a partial use of a feat free 2 levels after you can take the feat compares to 8 feats end run around?

No other 1st tier Mythic ability compares to Mythic Crafting Mastery. So if it is not a Tier 5 or 6 ability then it should be following the prerequisites to get the feats as a minimal balancer.

I note that nowhere in your examples does it let you craft the most potent of magic items Wands, Rods and Staves early at all.

Your 4 examples still do not compare to one broken ability.

That is one specific class feature to create one type of magic item that you can access at 3rd level normally. Not one power that negates the need for 8 feats over 11 levels and permits a 2nd level character to do what a mid-level is normally required for.

Take that 2nd level character now and give it class skill for crafting with 2 ranks which is +5 to the craft then add crafter's fortune (1st level spell) +5 to craft then add MW Tools +2 and add either a friend or familiar assisting another +2. Then add 2-5 for an ability score adjustment and +1 or 2 for the right trait build.

+17 minimum to crafting at second level with potential of +20+ easily crafting 95% of magic items out there. So no a 2nd level character crafting Wands, Rods and Staff's is not right.

With just a little logic you can maintain a balanced game without issue within the guideline of the power listed controls.

"This ability does not reduce the item’s cost or any other requirements."

The requirements to use the feats are the levels listed in the core book to qualify for the feats or it is a break in the system. You cannot take a feat you do not qualify for 99.99999999% of the time. Permitting this power without some balance is purely childish.

Oh the answer is right there!

"This ability does not reduce the item’s cost or ANY OTHER REQUIREMENTS."

The level to create these items IS a requirement.

This was my answer in my campaign:

You can craft any magic item as if you had the necessary item creation feats. If you actually have the item creation feat needed for a magic item you’re crafting, whenever you attempt a skill check to create that item, roll twice and use the higher result, and you make twice as much progress on the item for any time spent. This ability does not reduce the item’s cost or any other requirements.

Though this states "You may craft any magic item as if you had the necessary item creation feat." It does not state the obvious, that you MUST still qualify for the feat to gain access to it.

Meaning that most Crafting Feats have a minimum level requirement BEFORE you can take the feat. Therefore it is my ruling that dictates you cannot create said magic items until you are high enough level to use the actual feat.

Scribe Scroll = 1st level
Brew Potion = 3rd level
Wondrous Items = 3rd level
Wand = 5th level
Magic Arms and Armor =5th level
Rings = 7th level
Rods = 9th level
Staff = 11th level

Inscribe Rune, Inscribe tattoo, Craft Construct, Craft Ooze, Grow Plant Creature, Haunt Scavenger, Flesh Warper and Brew Flesh Crafter Poison do not qualify as Crafting feats for magic items either.

You MUST be the level listed or higher to craft these items as per the original feat requirements.